PHR mag. 20 things you don't know about 2010 Camaro
05-31-2009, 06:27 PM
#22
i agree with you to a certain extent unions are big part of the problem, but there is no denying that there business plan was not one of the best,the goverment had to do what is best for all parties involved and the unions were a main part of that as well, i hate unions with a passion, , but i dont blame obama for it, this is something that has been going on for years and their financial situation was not addressed till they were in the *******...ford also was in the same boat but there business plan was a little better than GM's so the goverment did not have to come in and make desisions for them
05-31-2009, 09:50 PM
#25
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"if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"
Government Motors shame on you, +1 gov needs to stay out of private enterprises
Last edited by Rafedial; 05-31-2009 at 09:57 PM.
I think all of you guys made some very valid and true points!!!
I agree with all of you!!!!!
05-31-2009, 10:30 PM
#27
In my opinion we should be happy that the GM didnt scrap all performance cars because with gas prices going back up americans are buying 4 door cars that get decent gas mileage and thats where the profit is, not in performance. I know we all love performance cars but honeslty we all know that car companies sell more family sedans and thats where the profit is for them, thats why chevy stopped making the camaro in the first place.
a high cost/low profit, low volume, halo vehicle like a Z/28 would probably cost around 50,000. I know i would love to see the car and drool on it in the showroom or a car show, but i could never afford it. With the economy right now thats not the right car for a struggling car company.
Last edited by MelScrilla; 05-31-2009 at 10:36 PM.
06-01-2009, 12:15 AM
#28
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Yes you should. That 15 billion is the taxpayers money not the governments or Obamas money.
Once again, NOT the governments business!!!
06-01-2009, 12:01 PM
#30
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Its official Chapter 11
Well at least they will live to fight another day.
They kill the z28 model and your whining? After 3 years of wasted money and time.
They almost lost it all.
Vettes included! HELLO U home. It took chrysler 31 days and they look to
survive. Going to be the terminators jobs though LOL
Well at least they will live to fight another day.
They kill the z28 model and your whining? After 3 years of wasted money and time.
They almost lost it all.
Vettes included! HELLO U home. It took chrysler 31 days and they look to
survive. Going to be the terminators jobs though LOL
06-01-2009, 01:07 PM
#31
Theres alot of finger pointing going. But really its a culmination of so many things. You guys bring up some valid points. As much as I would love to blame this on Obama, its not solely his fault. Likewise its not GMs fault. GM is heavily burdened with health care and pensions. They had no choice but to take the bailout money. They were a great company that has give out the best pensions in the world. No one can deny this. Its not their fault that all these baby boomers retired at once, leaving them with mounds of pensions and healthcare. No other auto maker is even remotely close to having the mass quantities to support. Also, The government removed restrictions that allowed people to get houses they couldnt afford. This caused many banks to fall. The chain reaction caused many businesses to not be able to get loans to survive. Its also not GMs fault that people are living so far out of their means and not paying their bills. Thats also causing businesses to fall. If you dont have a job you cant buy a new vehicle. What about NAFTA allowing all of are factories to move out of the nation? Look at the guzzler tax on all the desirable performance cars. The government put these huge fees on the big, powerful cars. That discourages sales. Look at the cost of emmisions added to every car. High fuel prices in recent years discouraged sales. I could go on and on.
Same with Dodge. Daimler milked Dodge and sold them off. The new Dodge started heavily in dept right as the economy collapsed.
People are so quick to blame GM. I dont see what they could have done different. They honored contracts with the UAW. They were Generous Motors. The biggest company in the world. The greatest company in the world. I am sad to see them go. Things will never be the same. I am hopeful are nation wont suffer the same fate. All this government spending thru loans is troublesome.
Same with Dodge. Daimler milked Dodge and sold them off. The new Dodge started heavily in dept right as the economy collapsed.
People are so quick to blame GM. I dont see what they could have done different. They honored contracts with the UAW. They were Generous Motors. The biggest company in the world. The greatest company in the world. I am sad to see them go. Things will never be the same. I am hopeful are nation wont suffer the same fate. All this government spending thru loans is troublesome.
06-01-2009, 09:44 PM
#32
i feel that they will come back stronger, now they can compete in the market and learn from their experiences, Gm was a victim of iits enviroment and its bad choices, but now i think that the quality is there, the mind set is right, the fact of the matter is that for some reason many people think that the muscle car market is going away, not all people want people carriers or something to go to work the average american has atleast 2 cars. as long as their is a mustang their is a camaro, it will be stupid to miss out on that market, the secret to it is making a profit on the every line that its brought out, not depend on other cars to make up the profit,(what happen with suv boom)many of us want hummers, huge gas guzzling cars fast cars, etc.. as long as their is a market they will be a car....not maybe in the quantities that gm was making them but their is still a market
06-02-2009, 12:13 AM
#33
so maybe different timing................same "socialist feel"
06-02-2009, 01:20 AM
#34
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Try to manage a business where you have no choice in the fact that you have to pay your employees 2 or 3 times what they are worth (or more) and they have a set amount of work to do and can read a book for the rest of the shift if they finish early. The UAW should have been disbanded long ago.
I saw a show about the corvette plant and the workers were wearing their own non-matching tshirts and shorts. The same series showed the plants where some foreign high performance cars are built and the workers were all wearing matching uniforms and/or lab coats. It was embarrasing to me as an American.
If you blame this on GM you clearly don't know the whole story.
I saw a show about the corvette plant and the workers were wearing their own non-matching tshirts and shorts. The same series showed the plants where some foreign high performance cars are built and the workers were all wearing matching uniforms and/or lab coats. It was embarrasing to me as an American.
If you blame this on GM you clearly don't know the whole story.
06-02-2009, 01:56 AM
#35
a few thoughts...
1) prices of vehicles have gone up because of inflation and the ever increasing govt. regulations...the govt regulations i.e. safety standards/emissions/etc... are also what has dramatically increased vehicle weights and kept fuel milage the same for 20 years even though engine technology has gotten much more sophisticated.
2) gm was building the high profit vehicles that american customers wanted. big trucks and suv's. however gm and chrysler were not prepared for the drastic consumer shift to smaller more fuel efficient and hybrid vehicles. i.e. the exact cars that the consumers now want to buy. on a side note, years before the gas prices spiked, ford started shifting their focus to more cars, hybrid technology and overall quality. thats why ford didnt need help. they got rid of the old ceo in enough time to change their business to match demand.
3) for years the government has made it too easy for the asian brands to import as many econo boxes as they could sell in north america. you think japan just lets chevy bring in millions of cars a year? i dont think so! "but they moved a lot of plants here and provided many jobs" well to that i say if so many japanese cars werent allowed to be made here they wouldve been replaced by american brand vehicles. however, the competition has finally convinced gm and chrysler that it was time to think about stepping up quality.
4) where is an unskilled to low skilled, $28/hour gm union employee ever going to find a sweet gravy job making so much in wages and benefits anywhere else?! the cost of labour in any business is always one of the highest expenses and when the unions are providing you with over priced and under worked employees that are really working for the union more than the company, well then thats going to cost a company a lot in the end and unfortunately, gm has just recently seen that end.
hopefully things can turn around quickly, gm can start making some money and then they can buy back ownership of the company from the people and start making our exciting and fun vehicles again.
1) prices of vehicles have gone up because of inflation and the ever increasing govt. regulations...the govt regulations i.e. safety standards/emissions/etc... are also what has dramatically increased vehicle weights and kept fuel milage the same for 20 years even though engine technology has gotten much more sophisticated.
2) gm was building the high profit vehicles that american customers wanted. big trucks and suv's. however gm and chrysler were not prepared for the drastic consumer shift to smaller more fuel efficient and hybrid vehicles. i.e. the exact cars that the consumers now want to buy. on a side note, years before the gas prices spiked, ford started shifting their focus to more cars, hybrid technology and overall quality. thats why ford didnt need help. they got rid of the old ceo in enough time to change their business to match demand.
3) for years the government has made it too easy for the asian brands to import as many econo boxes as they could sell in north america. you think japan just lets chevy bring in millions of cars a year? i dont think so! "but they moved a lot of plants here and provided many jobs" well to that i say if so many japanese cars werent allowed to be made here they wouldve been replaced by american brand vehicles. however, the competition has finally convinced gm and chrysler that it was time to think about stepping up quality.
4) where is an unskilled to low skilled, $28/hour gm union employee ever going to find a sweet gravy job making so much in wages and benefits anywhere else?! the cost of labour in any business is always one of the highest expenses and when the unions are providing you with over priced and under worked employees that are really working for the union more than the company, well then thats going to cost a company a lot in the end and unfortunately, gm has just recently seen that end.
hopefully things can turn around quickly, gm can start making some money and then they can buy back ownership of the company from the people and start making our exciting and fun vehicles again.
06-02-2009, 02:48 AM
#36
Last time I checked the govt was a tad bit in debt. Something like 11 trillion gross debt. How the hell do they think they are going to fix GM when they can't even fix their deficit or at least improve it. The last time we were out of the red was before the Civil War but who am I to judge. Gross debt has climbed roughly 4 trillion since 2000 with no signs of any improvments, it's actually gotten worse at a record pace. Hell they can't even get medicare or social security out of the red and it is only going to get worse. Any business whom operated as our government does would have been shut down with in the year. I can't even think when the govt has actually made a profit. What a great business model to follow and they will kill GM.
The same issue has risen with weapons. It's your amended right to bear arm's however, the one thing not regulated by the constitution is ammunition. Guess what is getting extremely scarce and receiving all sorts of sanctions, you guessed it, ammunition. Pretty shady that they find a loophole.
I am in no way an Anti American. Grew up in a Navy family and am an Eagle Scout. It just seems like they are always barking up the wrong tree and it gets frustrating.
If I buy a new car it will more than likely not be anything GM makes in the future. From what i am reading, they are trying to force feed 35 mpg family sedans and crossovers. Just not my style. I was extremely interested in the z28 but thanks to the situation, looks like it is a no go. Sure there is the z06 and so on, but I am just not a vette kind of person. Making a shelby more and more tempting.
I just hope they don't screw this up and create a larger yearly deficit than we already have.
As for the hybrid remark, GM was ahead of the game in the US. Once they declared bankruptcy, the first thing to go was the new volt. I believe GM is much larger than Ford, so there is alot more involved with changing a giant like GM.
The same issue has risen with weapons. It's your amended right to bear arm's however, the one thing not regulated by the constitution is ammunition. Guess what is getting extremely scarce and receiving all sorts of sanctions, you guessed it, ammunition. Pretty shady that they find a loophole.
I am in no way an Anti American. Grew up in a Navy family and am an Eagle Scout. It just seems like they are always barking up the wrong tree and it gets frustrating.
If I buy a new car it will more than likely not be anything GM makes in the future. From what i am reading, they are trying to force feed 35 mpg family sedans and crossovers. Just not my style. I was extremely interested in the z28 but thanks to the situation, looks like it is a no go. Sure there is the z06 and so on, but I am just not a vette kind of person. Making a shelby more and more tempting.
I just hope they don't screw this up and create a larger yearly deficit than we already have.
As for the hybrid remark, GM was ahead of the game in the US. Once they declared bankruptcy, the first thing to go was the new volt. I believe GM is much larger than Ford, so there is alot more involved with changing a giant like GM.
Last edited by redz_02; 06-02-2009 at 02:53 AM.
06-02-2009, 03:13 AM
#37
[QUOTE=redz_02;11690555]Last time I checked the govt was a tad bit in debt. Something like 11 trillion gross debt. How the hell do they think they are going to fix GM when they can't even fix their deficit or at least improve it. The last time we were out of the red was before the Civil War but who am I to judge. Gross debt has climbed roughly 4 trillion since 2000 with no signs of any improvments, it's actually gotten worse at a record pace. Hell they can't even get medicare or social security out of the red and it is only going to get worse. Any business whom operated as our government does would have been shut down with in the year. I can't even think when the govt has actually made a profit. What a great business model to follow and they will kill GM.
The same issue has risen with weapons. It's your amended right to bear arm's however, the one thing not regulated by the constitution is ammunition. Guess what is getting extremely scarce and receiving all sorts of sanctions, you guessed it, ammunition. Pretty shady that they find a loophole.
If I buy a new car it will more than likely not be anything GM makes in the future. From what i am reading, they are trying to force feed 35 mpg family sedans and crossovers. Just not my style. I was extremely interested in the z28 but thanks to the situation, looks like it is a no go. Sure there is the z06 and so on, but I am just not a vette kind of person. Making a shelby more and more tempting.
I may be jumping to conclusions on this matter but I just hope they don't screw this up.
The same issue has risen with weapons. It's your amended right to bear arm's however, the one thing not regulated by the constitution is ammunition. Guess what is getting extremely scarce and receiving all sorts of sanctions, you guessed it, ammunition. Pretty shady that they find a loophole.
If I buy a new car it will more than likely not be anything GM makes in the future. From what i am reading, they are trying to force feed 35 mpg family sedans and crossovers. Just not my style. I was extremely interested in the z28 but thanks to the situation, looks like it is a no go. Sure there is the z06 and so on, but I am just not a vette kind of person. Making a shelby more and more tempting.
I may be jumping to conclusions on this matter but I just hope they don't screw this up.
06-02-2009, 06:52 AM
#38
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Sunday I went out and bought a new truck, wanted a chevy but basically couldnt get what I wanted and needed. I would have had to purchase a 3/4 ton and with the options would have costed me several thousand more than what I paid. What I ended up with was a Tundra 4x4 with the 5.7L, 6spd auto, towing package (10500lbs), etc, etc. for a standard setup this thing is basically loaded with options. The 5.7L puts out 380HP/403TQ, and according to some of the other owners of these trucks are getting as much as 22mpg. According to some truck mags this truck will do a quarter mile in 14.7 and a dealer installed blower (retains factory warranty) will do the quarter in 13 flat. Show me a factory GM 4wd that will even come close to this, next tell me what GM options that will retain factory warrentee and boost performance, actually just tell me what dealer installed performance options are even available for GM's. Ford was the only other mfr that I know of that offered factory bolt on performance goodies and retained mfr warranty. Not to mention that the resale/trade in value that Toyota's get, almost every GM I bought had excellant maintenance and I got hosed on just about all trade ins.
Current GM's Owned
48 Chey FleetMaster Coupe
50 Chevy StyleLine Coupe (16 year old's)
67 Chevy C10 SWB Pro Street, 427sbc, 500+HP 550TQ (4sale)
2003 Malibu (19 year old's)
1997 Lumina (16 year old's)
06-02-2009, 11:04 AM
#39
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Very well said man! I might be on the side bar with this subject but here goes. In 1970's, you could buy a Toyota for 2500 dollars let alone any other brand name. A person's salary was 20k a year but today that same job pay's 40k a year, why is the price of car's 10x more than the cars 40 years ago. Mortgages was in the low hundred's but today is 1-2k on the average a month! Peoples salaries didn't increase 10x for a profession like an electronic technician like myself so why did vehicles increase 10x. I don't understand this.
