lemons12

iTrader: (71)

they did listen to the people, that matter... they didnt listen to us because we dont matter... we make up like .00001 of the car buyers..

Vicinity

iTrader: (7)

LS1's - Fast cheap speed
ZETA - Refined, fast, elegant (I guess?)

Different strokes for different folks. If you don't like it... shut the **** up. It's really not a hard concept. If you have something that's worthy of being disputed, great, talk about it. If not, you probably think the ZETA will give you cancer or something, or you can't afford it.

I myself, am choosing to get a 1st gen instead, I like originality.

Vicinity

iTrader: (7)

Technically we make up less than that. Most of us that tear them up buy 2nd hand which doesn't count as a sale, lol.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

hahaha.. never even thought of that... that is the truth....

ok, .00000001....


anyways, like we were saying.. they couldnt care less what we want..

darrensls1

Excellent point.

I understand GM's reasons for making the car the way they did (heavy, IRS, 20" rims). It's not like it's going to hurt thier sales and the people they targeted the car to could care less about track performance.

Oh well, it's still a beautiful car.

Casper9T9

iTrader: (1)

Let's not forget that GM built this car to compete with the Ford Mustang. The Stang outsold the 4th gen 3 to 1 despite its worse performance in nearly every category. They had to use the Zeta platform in order to compete. If they had to develop a lighter, Camaro-specific platform, the car would never exist. Corporations are in business to make money, not appeal to a minority automobile enthusiast.

I've owned my Formula for 8 years. Compared to the 5th gen it's a huge POS. Horrible build quality, stupid picnic table dash, no space in the engine bay, rattles, squeaks, etc...

I'm also sick of these lame arguments that all 4th gens ran 12s bone stock. That is complete and utter bullshit. Mine ran 13.7s stock. Most run mid 13's. All this 12 second stuff is Internet folklore and the teenagers that now own these cars take it as gospel. "But, but, Evan Smith ran blah, blah...so all LS1's run that fast" Congratulations, you failed your statistics and logic class.

What did the 4th gen run in the slalom? How many feet 60-0? Lateral G's?

Bottom line is the 5th gen outperforms the old car in nearly every category, is more refined, has a much better build quality, is safer, and more importantly it's selling more.

JD_AMG

You need to dig a bit deeper, all the 12 second cars are 6 speeds, you shouldn't expect to run that quick with a slushbox... The 6 speed cars are definitely capable of 12 second passes bone stock. That being said the 2010 Camaro SS is legitimately faster than a 4th gen seeing that they trap 111mph stock, while the best Ive seen for a 4th gen is 109mph. Though the 5th gen with an auto wont be in the 12s either...

Low to mid 60mph. The 5th gen has an edge here, but not by a lot from what I could find. I cannot find the slalom speed for a 1LE car though, which I would bet would be right on the butt of the 2010 SS.

I can find any 60-0 stops for the 2010 Camaro, but the 70-0 stops that I found are significantly longer than a stock 1LE 4th gen Camaro (144ft compared to 162ft). Not that it matters because these numbers are insignificant, what matter is how long the brakes last before fade at the race track. The 5th gen definitely has the edge here, but a set of brembo blanks and hawk pads and the 4th gen is back on track.


About the same ~.87-.90Gs. Not that lateral Gs mean anything about real handling.

The 5th gen outperforms the 4th gen in only a few categories and its by a small margin. But with that said its undoubtedly a better car.
Now if you care about the above figures that is a really easy fix for the 4th gens: get good shocks. Yeah, that's it. You will get significantly better handling, control, and ride quality (say goodbye to rattles over bumps).

Fraxum

iTrader: (2)

Great summation, well said. But I might add the handling on a bumpy road and the HP potential of the LS3 difference margin is not small. What I do not get why are some so disapponted in the '10s track times. This car should perform close to but a little slower than the recent GTO with the same power. The 20s and a bit of extra weight will hold it back a little.

But what might be missing from G5 Camaro is the rawness that made the Fbody G4 so exciting. I remember buying a '98 Z28 when they first came out. I had just traded my '96 Z28 and bought the car without even driving it. As I drove off the lot I thought I made a mistake! The car was too quiet and smooth. I did grow to enjoy the LS1 Though.

More recently I leased a BMW 335i to see what all the fuss is about. This car is good at everything including low 12s with just a tune. But it is so smooth and composed all the time, even going sideways, it is a little boring.

When my lease is up I want something with more excitement. Maybe the Camaro will be that car. I am not all that into its looks. But if you loved your 4th Gens as I do (I still have one) isn't the Mustang closer to the 4th Gen in its essence than the new Camaro? Smaller wheels, lighter, and a solid rear axle. But the engine is the deal breaker isn't it? Even the new 302 will not help much. It is now rumored to be only in the 360-375 hp range. And with it only being a 302 where will the torque be?

I wish GM and Ford would get together and build an LS3 Mustang. Unless you are a Ford hater who here would not be into that?

davidadavila

funny its like when i purchased my car i wanted the fastest stock car for the money and that was the 2001 ls1 camaro great thing about it. its that it still is there is not one car out there faster than the camaro for its price stock.....for me i dont want a car payment for a while so im going to invest n a 69 or a second gen or maybe even a 3rd gen, its time to get in some hot rod experience in and a little less time on the computer, in time im sure i will have a 5th gen but i wont buy it till i have 70% of it , which is my new motto for any credit that i take out no more credit cards for me....the 5th gen is a great car, you can deny the irs we have truly finally got away from the 70's technology, the price for what you are getting is more than reasonable i think...
vette for me what they represent is not the type of dude i am, im usually underdog type guy trying to make the most out of the least, my wife wants a c5zo6 or a regular c6 and im sure if she pays her rt wagon fast enough she will get one. love my 4th gen for my the car looks still look quite modern and simple at the same time. like mentioned before the car its correct for this time, it attracts a solid demografic, the only demografic that it does not hit is the tree huggin kind, now its the best on the market hands down, it is better in every way compared to mustang and dodge at any level, performance wise on a trim, quality of build, performance, it outruns all its competitors, good job GM in my book
.........and for the guy with the ls3 mustang idea...well check out fords last commercial talking about GM and there backrupcy, way to kick the general in the ***** wile he is down....******* ********, and concidering they were in the same table asking for money.....the day gm and ford get together, ill have a sex change and tatoo honda on my chest

LS1Transhed

With the late 4th gens, we had the same LS1 that was in the base C5 Vette and our weight difference was really not that much at all... so our stock power and 1/4 mile times were very similair with the edge going to the slightly lighter Vette (well.. that and handling hands down).

With the 5th Gen Camaro, the engine specs are similair/near the base C6 Vette, but the weight sets their 1/4 mile times very much apart from each other.

Think this was on purpose? So that the Camaro didnt hurt the Vettes sales?

Fraxum

iTrader: (2)

funny, I hope it does not happen for your sake.

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

very good.. your right on target..

IMO you just made yourself look like an idiot.. only a handful of TRUE bone stock ls1s hit 12s.... and its 12.9x at that usually.. and thats after years of learning the car and what not, in good conditions.. FAR FAR FAR From what most run.. as said most run mid to high 13s... and a few good drivers and good running cars hit bottom 13s..
you just compared 111mph to a 109mph... you said yourself.. THEY (like none of them wil EVER trap better than that, which put your money on it, they will).. and then compared it to the BEST that a stock fbody has done after its been out for years... pretty sad argument there..

for the rest of it.. your comparing it to a 1le... how many people do you know with them.. the average 4th gen will get its *** handed to it by the average 5th gen, in every category, not just some.. also you talk about "just add a set of springs/shocks"... that argument is void, you are now longer comparing stock cars...

that was a VERY weak argument... especially after the awesome previous post.

of course it was on purpose.. same reason fbodys were underrated to make the c5s look better... they couldnt let anything touch their pride and joy, and thats how it should stay.

TonyGXP

I did a quick search and found the 2002 Camaro SS to stop from 70-0 in 167ft? are you sure about the 144ft? and the60-0 in 120. no where near the new camaro (102-107ft). and the new car does 70-0 in 149-153ft. just a quick search in google. looks like the v6 camaro is stopping in the 160's from 70mph. As for the slalom I see the 02 SS did a 63-63.7mph and the new one is from 66-68mph.

darrensls1

Excellent points. You sir are right on the money.

jmurray87

iTrader: (1)

This thread makes me go "lol"


I am guessing these same fights went on in late 97..early 98 when the LS1 came out and took over from the LT1.

Casper9T9

iTrader: (1)

All figures are from Motor Trend articles except where noted:

2002 Camaro SS - 6 speed manual

0-60: 5.19 seconds
1/4: 13.49@107.34
600 ft Slalom: 63.04 mph
Lateral acceleration: test not done
60-0: 120 ft
Price as tested: $32,780

2010 Camaro SS - 6 speed manual

0-60: 4.7 seconds
1/4: 13.0@111.0
600 ft Slalom: 68.6 mph*
Lateral acceleration: 0.90 g (average)
60-0: 105 ft
Price as tested: $31,490

*From Edmunds test (M-T did not do slalom)

So when you say "a few" you really mean every, and when you say "small" you really mean large? Gotcha!

JD_AMG

What is your point? They are 12 second capable, that's all Im saying.
Comparing the best trap speeds I've seen so far, again what is your point? Clearly the 5th gen has the advantage.
Again, what is your point? A 1LE car is a stock 4th gen.

More than likely to be true, I never denied it.
Not comparing it to the 5th gen here. I was just saying if you care about such figures something as easy as just [good] shocks alone make all the difference (the same reason why the 1LE car is such a better performer).

JD_AMG

Got it from here:

JD_AMG

Those numbers are a pretty small margin, and can be made up with just shocks, brake pads and the driver mod...

darrensls1

So when you say the LS1 Camaro runs 13.49 you really mean 12.89-13.49. And when you say the LS1 Camaro cost $32,780 you really mean $26,170-$32,780.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/ncal.j...standard=false

So when you say the 2010 Camaro is $31,490 you really mean it would cost me $35,895 or more.

Gotcha!