GM's Camaro Business Case - 100,000 Must Be Sold Per Year
05-18-2006, 02:42 PM
#24
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These are pretty high goals to hit. However, the GTO is done from what I have read. So no internal competition. But the Mustang and Charger are already out there. So they have a head start on the market. However, by the time the Camaro hits the lots those will be aging designs and will win some buyers back. As for the rental car thing, are you kidding? That is exactly what GM needs to build. What better way to market a car then having it as a rental. Not to mention the mass sales from it. They need a cheap *** V6 with practically nothing (for styling and rental co.s), a high end V6 (for the bells and wistle people; mainly chicks) and an entry level (LS2) Z28 car (for the muscle heads). Then the following year bring out the bad boys and a vert.
05-18-2006, 05:36 PM
#25
Not possible. I said it before, and I'll say it again.
The mustang owns this market now. The Camaro will be new kid on the block again. Sales may be decent the first year. Then on comes the Challenger, the Shelby will be out at this time as well.
To many contenders, not enough people giving a damn about the camaro. On top of the fact that the only people selling cars right now are the Asians.
Car salesmen are starving. They had better have some crazy tricks up there sleeve. And as posted above, they better have a damn good 6 cyl. car if they want to get anywhere near 100k units.
The mustang owns this market now. The Camaro will be new kid on the block again. Sales may be decent the first year. Then on comes the Challenger, the Shelby will be out at this time as well.
To many contenders, not enough people giving a damn about the camaro. On top of the fact that the only people selling cars right now are the Asians.
Car salesmen are starving. They had better have some crazy tricks up there sleeve. And as posted above, they better have a damn good 6 cyl. car if they want to get anywhere near 100k units.
05-18-2006, 06:55 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by WECIV
If the car were light enough that they could make a 15 thousand dollar four cylinder...
they could very well use the solstice's Turbo 4cyl as the very base Camaro.
05-18-2006, 10:10 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by 2kSnakeEater
they could very well use the solstice's Turbo 4cyl as the very base Camaro.
05-18-2006, 10:42 PM
#28
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i think what'll **** me off the most, is that IF it goes into production, I'll want to run out and buy it, and then 1-2 years later they will come out with an SS or Z28 and i'll kick myself in the ***
I'm afraid it'll be like an SSR, nobody wants the first ones now
I'm afraid it'll be like an SSR, nobody wants the first ones now
05-18-2006, 11:15 PM
#29
what car besides mustangs in that category even comes close to selling 100k a yr?
in order for this to happen GM needs to offer this car cheaper than a mustang comparably equipped and market the **** out of it. it needs to be comfortable and practical for everyday use. face it. if its just aimed at racers itll fail.
lutz has a tough job right now trying to make this car a success. GM cant afford it not to make money.
PLEASE MAKE THIS CAR GM!
in order for this to happen GM needs to offer this car cheaper than a mustang comparably equipped and market the **** out of it. it needs to be comfortable and practical for everyday use. face it. if its just aimed at racers itll fail.
lutz has a tough job right now trying to make this car a success. GM cant afford it not to make money.
PLEASE MAKE THIS CAR GM!
05-18-2006, 11:29 PM
#30
GM just needs to build the flippin thing already, its already getting mired down and worn out here on the boards/automags. Keep it fresh and hot to keep the interest up.
Come on GM 5 months have passed and no "official word" yet...what gives.
And to the "watered down" comment, **** that I want everyone to have a new Camaro, even yo granmama...tired of seeing all these stangs rolling around. I want the Camaro to be a success from here on out. No more killing off the most recognized nameplate GM has to offer. No more putting GM faithful F body enthusiast out in the cold when the ford faithful getting a new fresh stang every few years.
Come on GM 5 months have passed and no "official word" yet...what gives.
And to the "watered down" comment, **** that I want everyone to have a new Camaro, even yo granmama...tired of seeing all these stangs rolling around. I want the Camaro to be a success from here on out. No more killing off the most recognized nameplate GM has to offer. No more putting GM faithful F body enthusiast out in the cold when the ford faithful getting a new fresh stang every few years.
05-19-2006, 11:00 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by OctaneZ28
Challenger and GTO are in a different class and will not be directly competing with Camaro and Mustang.
Also, both GTO and Challenger will be maxed out at about 25K units per year each, designed to be limited production.
That said, they're still all coupes.
But 100K is definitely not unreasonable.
4th Gen F-Body numbers:
1993: 39,103 Camaros + 14,112 Firebirds = 53,215 Total*
1994: 119,799 Camaros + 45,992 Firebirds = 165,791 Total
1995: 122,738 Camaros + 50,986 Firebirds = 173,724 Total
1996: 61,362 Camaros + 30,097 Firebirds = 91,459 Total
1997: 60,202 Camaros + 30,754 Firebirds = 90,956 Total
1998: 54,026 Camaros + 32,155 Firebirds = 86,181 Total
1999: 42,098 Camaros + 32,209 Firebirds = 74,307 Total
2000: 45,461 Camaros + 31,826 Firebirds = 77,287 Total
2001: 29,009 Camaros + 21,436 Firebirds = 50,445 Total*
2002: 41,776 Camaros + 30,691 Firebirds = 72,467 Total
* - Short model year runs. 1993 late start, 2001 early end.
Looking at those numbers, I'd say 100K for the 5th Gen will be a cinch.
Also, both GTO and Challenger will be maxed out at about 25K units per year each, designed to be limited production.
That said, they're still all coupes.
But 100K is definitely not unreasonable.
4th Gen F-Body numbers:
1993: 39,103 Camaros + 14,112 Firebirds = 53,215 Total*
1994: 119,799 Camaros + 45,992 Firebirds = 165,791 Total
1995: 122,738 Camaros + 50,986 Firebirds = 173,724 Total
1996: 61,362 Camaros + 30,097 Firebirds = 91,459 Total
1997: 60,202 Camaros + 30,754 Firebirds = 90,956 Total
1998: 54,026 Camaros + 32,155 Firebirds = 86,181 Total
1999: 42,098 Camaros + 32,209 Firebirds = 74,307 Total
2000: 45,461 Camaros + 31,826 Firebirds = 77,287 Total
2001: 29,009 Camaros + 21,436 Firebirds = 50,445 Total*
2002: 41,776 Camaros + 30,691 Firebirds = 72,467 Total
* - Short model year runs. 1993 late start, 2001 early end.
Looking at those numbers, I'd say 100K for the 5th Gen will be a cinch.
You must be using the new math.
05-19-2006, 06:33 PM
#33
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It's ridiculous of GM to even talk of numbers publicly. I almost feel like there making us all responsible for reaching that number. So if 100,000 of us put down a deposit now, then they'll build it?!? Get real.
05-20-2006, 08:07 AM
#34
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If they come out with a good V6 (or V4, using the turbo Ecotec from the Solstice/Redline), AND they price it correctly, they MIGHT...repeat...MIGHT hit that number. Everyone was so excited about the GTO, then it came out and they realized its price point was way off. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against the GTO, but the market of people willing to spend $33-$35K on what they tried to market as a muscle car wasn't NEARLY as big as they thought it would be.
If the V6 Camaro comes out with a base price of $30K and the Z28/SS option comes out starting at $35-40K, they won't come anywhere near 100,000 units. I know they've said pricing will rival that of the Mustang, but "rival" can mean something very different to GM. From a purely price perspective, they should try to undercut Ford's pricing by a couple thousand for each model. Sacrifice per unit profits for volume. However, they haven't done this in many years, so I'm not optimistic that it will happen this time around.
-Mike
If the V6 Camaro comes out with a base price of $30K and the Z28/SS option comes out starting at $35-40K, they won't come anywhere near 100,000 units. I know they've said pricing will rival that of the Mustang, but "rival" can mean something very different to GM. From a purely price perspective, they should try to undercut Ford's pricing by a couple thousand for each model. Sacrifice per unit profits for volume. However, they haven't done this in many years, so I'm not optimistic that it will happen this time around.
-Mike
05-20-2006, 08:26 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by chupr0kabra
...the market of people willing to spend $33-$35K on what they tried to market as a muscle car wasn't NEARLY as big as they thought it would be.
The LS1 was expensive to produce, as would be an LS2/LS7. Not only do you get to pay more up front, but you get the bonus of crazy insurance rates on top of that.
When my car payment is about the same as my house payment--it's gone too far...
05-20-2006, 10:54 AM
#36
they werent that expensive. as a matter of fact in 1998 is was the best performance car available for the price.
http://www.nctd.com/printversion-rev...o&ReviewID=379
http://www.nctd.com/printversion-rev...o&ReviewID=379
05-20-2006, 11:14 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by ULTIMATEORANGESS
they werent that expensive. as a matter of fact in 1998 is was the best performance car available for the price.
05-20-2006, 11:27 AM
#38
Originally Posted by LTSpeed
I didn't say they weren't good bang for the buck--they were! But now I suppose you'll try to argue that a new Z06 isn't expensive. (And it's also got a lot of bang for the buck.) But do you think they can sell 100,000 of them? Even at 1/2 price?
who said anything about a z06?
considering you could get an ls1 equipped fbody for around the same price of a mustang GT id say it was a killer deal.
i already posted 100k sales arent a realistic goal.
05-20-2006, 01:16 PM
#40
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The mustang survives because they sell alot of V6's. It will be hard for GM to meat that goal without catering to the V6 crowd (mid life crisisers, women, and guys who don't care about HP). Most of the Mustangs I see are V6s with some old couple in it or a young woman.