Top of the line named Z28 instead of SS
08-10-2006, 12:11 PM
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[/QUOTE=AnimalSS]
And, for someone to suggest that my idea of top of the line is the one with the highest price tag is insulting. I'll bet I paid less for my SS than you paid for your Z28.
And, no matter how many ways you can think of to argue to the contrary, the fact remains that the 4th gen SS did get a performance upgrade over the Z28, however slight it may have been. [/QUOTE]
I never said that your idea of top of the line is the one with the highest price tag, I said that to some people they consider the top of the line to be the one with the highest price tag. So theres no need to be insulted. As for price, I bought my car used from a dealer 2 1/2 yrs ago for $13,500 w/ 45k miles when they were asking $17,000. It means nothing to me if you paid less for your car. If it makes you feel better that you did, good for you. Does that mean you got a better car than I did for less money
? It doesn't matter what we paid for our cars, thats irrelevant. Besides a fully optioned out 4th gen Z28 cost less than a fully optioned out 4th gen SS, and so what? That was usually the case with the 1st and 2nd gens, while the Z was the better performer of the two.
It may sound like I'm against the idea of the SS being named top of the line, but believe me I'm not. And it may seem that I'm saying all of this because I own a Z28, but thats not true either. When I bought my car, I had the intentions of buying a Z28 because thats what I wanted. There was a black SS parked right next to mine with 2k miles less for practically the same price. But I chose the Z28 because I like the styling better than the SS. If the SS had more than just minor handling improvments over the Z28 from the factory, than guess what, I would have bought that black SS instead of the Z28. But being as how the main difference was styling, I was fine with my choice. And like I said before, if the SS is the best all around performing Camaro for the 5th gen, I'll own an SS. If its a Z28 , I'll own a Z28. The point I've been trying to make is that when people wanted a Camaro that stops the best, handles the best, accelerates the best, while being an all around fun car to drive thats useable for everyday use, the Camaro for them would have been a Z28. The thing that bothers me is how GM says that they want to go back to their roots with the Camaro, and bring back what it once stood for. And the only way that I can see that happening is if the Z becomes the better performer of the two. Thats why I'm saying all this, to show those that don't know the history behind the Camaro and its models. But lets face it, things are different today then they once were.
I think its sad how they brought back the "SS" name for marketing purposes with the Camaro from '96-02 by simply changing the exterior style and making it seem like it was far superior to the Z28. I honestly wish that they had done more to the 4th gen SS performance wise while the Camaro was still being produced, so that topics like this one wouldn't be an issue concerning the 5th gen, not only with the enthusiasts, but with GM themselves. At least that way they would have a reason to make the SS the all around better performer without abandoning the Z28 heritage. But if thats what they are trying to do with the 5th gen, and if its going to help them sell more, then I'm all for it. I'll support whatever GM does as long as it helps the Camaro name stay in production. The way I see it, is if the Camaro's absence since 2002 has already made the enthusiasts start to disagree about which model should be named "top of the line" before its even been built yet, then the blue oval camp is already starting to get the better of us before the Camaro has returned. Like I said before, whatever the top is named, (as long as its not berlinetta
) it better own anything Mustang related. 
(Again, don't take this post the wrong way or as an attack towards you or others that disagree with me, b/c its not. Nor am I trying to insult anyone. I'm simply trying to speak up for the Z28 enthusiasts and owners that aren't happy watching a car with this much history being insulted and pushed aside just to become another "trim" level by people who don't even know what the Z28 stood for and did for the Camaro name . Whatever the top is named, no one is going to be right or wrong, b/c it will benefit GM and its enthusiasts as long as the Camaro stays)
And, for someone to suggest that my idea of top of the line is the one with the highest price tag is insulting. I'll bet I paid less for my SS than you paid for your Z28.
And, no matter how many ways you can think of to argue to the contrary, the fact remains that the 4th gen SS did get a performance upgrade over the Z28, however slight it may have been. [/QUOTE]I never said that your idea of top of the line is the one with the highest price tag, I said that to some people they consider the top of the line to be the one with the highest price tag. So theres no need to be insulted. As for price, I bought my car used from a dealer 2 1/2 yrs ago for $13,500 w/ 45k miles when they were asking $17,000. It means nothing to me if you paid less for your car. If it makes you feel better that you did, good for you. Does that mean you got a better car than I did for less money
? It doesn't matter what we paid for our cars, thats irrelevant. Besides a fully optioned out 4th gen Z28 cost less than a fully optioned out 4th gen SS, and so what? That was usually the case with the 1st and 2nd gens, while the Z was the better performer of the two. It may sound like I'm against the idea of the SS being named top of the line, but believe me I'm not. And it may seem that I'm saying all of this because I own a Z28, but thats not true either. When I bought my car, I had the intentions of buying a Z28 because thats what I wanted. There was a black SS parked right next to mine with 2k miles less for practically the same price. But I chose the Z28 because I like the styling better than the SS. If the SS had more than just minor handling improvments over the Z28 from the factory, than guess what, I would have bought that black SS instead of the Z28. But being as how the main difference was styling, I was fine with my choice. And like I said before, if the SS is the best all around performing Camaro for the 5th gen, I'll own an SS. If its a Z28 , I'll own a Z28. The point I've been trying to make is that when people wanted a Camaro that stops the best, handles the best, accelerates the best, while being an all around fun car to drive thats useable for everyday use, the Camaro for them would have been a Z28. The thing that bothers me is how GM says that they want to go back to their roots with the Camaro, and bring back what it once stood for. And the only way that I can see that happening is if the Z becomes the better performer of the two. Thats why I'm saying all this, to show those that don't know the history behind the Camaro and its models. But lets face it, things are different today then they once were.
I think its sad how they brought back the "SS" name for marketing purposes with the Camaro from '96-02 by simply changing the exterior style and making it seem like it was far superior to the Z28. I honestly wish that they had done more to the 4th gen SS performance wise while the Camaro was still being produced, so that topics like this one wouldn't be an issue concerning the 5th gen, not only with the enthusiasts, but with GM themselves. At least that way they would have a reason to make the SS the all around better performer without abandoning the Z28 heritage. But if thats what they are trying to do with the 5th gen, and if its going to help them sell more, then I'm all for it. I'll support whatever GM does as long as it helps the Camaro name stay in production. The way I see it, is if the Camaro's absence since 2002 has already made the enthusiasts start to disagree about which model should be named "top of the line" before its even been built yet, then the blue oval camp is already starting to get the better of us before the Camaro has returned. Like I said before, whatever the top is named, (as long as its not berlinetta
) it better own anything Mustang related. (Again, don't take this post the wrong way or as an attack towards you or others that disagree with me, b/c its not. Nor am I trying to insult anyone. I'm simply trying to speak up for the Z28 enthusiasts and owners that aren't happy watching a car with this much history being insulted and pushed aside just to become another "trim" level by people who don't even know what the Z28 stood for and did for the Camaro name . Whatever the top is named, no one is going to be right or wrong, b/c it will benefit GM and its enthusiasts as long as the Camaro stays)
Last edited by Z28LS1KID; 08-10-2006 at 12:34 PM.
08-10-2006, 12:45 PM
#102
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Originally Posted by RedZoutlaw
No problem but I think you might have taken it out of context, or not, but I meant that originally the Z28 had the better handling, exhaust and suspension and then slp f*cked it up with their idea
It so happens I had an SS and a Z sitting on the lot and after alot of thought went with the Z cuz I was originally going to get an aftermarket SS hood and spoiler to save the few grand more upfront but later I decided to go the way of ultra Z cuz it is diff. It has nothing to do with envy.
It so happens I had an SS and a Z sitting on the lot and after alot of thought went with the Z cuz I was originally going to get an aftermarket SS hood and spoiler to save the few grand more upfront but later I decided to go the way of ultra Z cuz it is diff. It has nothing to do with envy.
I just think this is a bogus argument. I don't know why these people who do this can't admit that they liked the SS better. And, once again, I'm not referring to those who put aftermarket hoods (sunoco, ultra-z, etc.) and spoilers and such on the Camaros. Just the ones who are making SS "clones". Just buy an SS if that's what you want.
But, back to the original question of this thread. I don't think the SS moniker has been dimished lately. And, I still believe that the SS badge will be put on the "top of the line" version of the 5th gen Camaro. But, whatever badge is on the "top dog" 5th gen is the one I'll be in line to purchase.
08-10-2006, 01:02 PM
#103
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Originally Posted by Z28LS1KID
… But I chose the Z28 because I like the styling better than the SS.
Originally Posted by Z28LS1KID
…… I'll support whatever GM does as long as it helps the Camaro name stay in production.
08-10-2006, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Z28LS1KID
…… I'll support whatever GM does as long as it helps the Camaro name stay in production.
This has got to be the most supportive statement in this thread!!!
I agree with the marketing antics .....they are using "SS" to sell cars and survive in a competitive compact car market.
I personally chose my 35th SS for a number of reasons....appearance being some of them.....and IF they do decide to go with Z28...I agree that would be the best thing to re-introduce the Camaro vs. the Shelby etc..
We really can't lose.....has anyone thought that maybe since GM is back as the sponsor of the Crown Royal International Race of Champions...that maybe we ....just might....see a return of the IROC-Z????
I still have my IROC and they sold like hotcakes in the 80's......
Whatever they decide...I am just glad it's coming back.......I have to start saving$$$$$
…… I'll support whatever GM does as long as it helps the Camaro name stay in production.
This has got to be the most supportive statement in this thread!!!
I agree with the marketing antics .....they are using "SS" to sell cars and survive in a competitive compact car market.
I personally chose my 35th SS for a number of reasons....appearance being some of them.....and IF they do decide to go with Z28...I agree that would be the best thing to re-introduce the Camaro vs. the Shelby etc..
We really can't lose.....has anyone thought that maybe since GM is back as the sponsor of the Crown Royal International Race of Champions...that maybe we ....just might....see a return of the IROC-Z????
I still have my IROC and they sold like hotcakes in the 80's......
Whatever they decide...I am just glad it's coming back.......I have to start saving$$$$$
08-10-2006, 04:34 PM
#105
Originally Posted by Z28LS1KID
The Z28 was never just a "stripped-bare Camaro shell". Just because it was known as a "factory race car", didn't mean all it had was a drivers seat and a steering wheel, or that it wasn't a joy to drive and that includes the base Z28 as well. Just like the other models, it gave people the option of whether or not they wanted a/c etc. You were still able to buy a Z28 fully optioned out with "luxury options" making it one of the most expensive Camaros you could buy while still being able to do what it does best, perform the best, which also made it a joy to drive.
As far as driving pleasure, it wasn't that great on the street. Remember, this car had no guts under 3500. It did enjoy options that weren't available on the SS though. Namely 15" wheels and the available JL8 brakes(4 wheel discs).
The Z28 RPO code specifically lists it as a Special Performance Package. It was definitely a better handling car than that of the SS. Stopped just as well as the SS or better if you ponied up the money for the rear discs, but that was very rare. It was faster than the small block SS and the 325HP 396. About even with the 350HP 396. But was easily slower in performance than the 375HP 396. And much slower than any rare 427 equipped Camaro.
Look up any performance data from the era. Facts are facts but it seems time has a way of distorting what people want to believe as fact.
08-10-2006, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob
Facts are facts but it seems time has a way of distorting what people want to believe as fact.
… and pass the torque wrench.
08-10-2006, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Nine Ball
The top Corvette isn't an SS. Its an RPO code (Z06). So, there goes your arguments about Chevy using "SS" on its top level performance cars.
In the 1st gens, the Z28 out handled and was quicker than the SS 396 Camaro. That 302 was underrated, and could rev like a ****. It was also a much lighter engine and vehicle than the SS. The SS Camaros were the luxury cruisers with bigger engine options, the Z28 was all business. No automatic Z28s, no A/C, etc...
I'd love to see the Z28 be the equivalent to the Z06 in terms of rank within respective models.
Z28 = hardtop only, manual tranny only, beefier swaybars, bigger brakes, tranny/psteering cooler. Basically the "Z06" of the Camaro.
In the 1st gens, the Z28 out handled and was quicker than the SS 396 Camaro. That 302 was underrated, and could rev like a ****. It was also a much lighter engine and vehicle than the SS. The SS Camaros were the luxury cruisers with bigger engine options, the Z28 was all business. No automatic Z28s, no A/C, etc...
I'd love to see the Z28 be the equivalent to the Z06 in terms of rank within respective models.
Z28 = hardtop only, manual tranny only, beefier swaybars, bigger brakes, tranny/psteering cooler. Basically the "Z06" of the Camaro.
08-10-2006, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob
Actually A/C wasn't available for the Z28 nor any other solid lifter car.
Originally Posted by Rob
As far as driving pleasure, it wasn't that great on the street. Remember, this car had no guts under 3500. It did enjoy options that weren't available on the SS though. Namely 15" wheels and the available JL8 brakes(4 wheel discs).
As for it having "no guts under 3500", I'm assuming your talking about the 1st gen, if so thats a respectable comment. Especially as how the car was meant to rev high. It might not of felt as powerful as the big blocks under 3500, but by no means was it a slouch under 3500 either. As I said in an earlier post, the 302s bore and stroke of 4.00 inches and 3.00 inches mean't this little engine would be a screamer.
Originally Posted by Rob
The Z28 RPO code specifically lists it as a Special Performance Package. It was definitely a better handling car than that of the SS. Stopped just as well as the SS or better if you ponied up the money for the rear discs, but that was very rare. It was faster than the small block SS and the 325HP 396. About even with the 350HP 396. But was easily slower in performance than the 375HP 396. And much slower than any rare 427 equipped Camaro.
Look up any performance data from the era. Facts are facts but it seems time has a way of distorting what people want to believe as fact.
Look up any performance data from the era. Facts are facts but it seems time has a way of distorting what people want to believe as fact.
When it came to speed and the Z28s "little" 302 :
1967 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
302 Cubic Inch Engine
- Bore : 4.00 inches
- Stroke : 3.00 inches
- TRW 11-to-1 pistons
- Forged Rods
- .485-lift solid camshaft
- Holley 780 Carb
- Aluminum Intake Manifold
- 2.02 Heads
The advertised HP was 290 @ 5800rpm. But it wasn't unusual for the Z28 to dyno between 360-400hp stock. By the time you put headers on, open exhaust and the over the counter camshaft, it would actually make 450-460hp.
The Z28 was never meant to be a drag car, but it just happened to be a decent performer at the strip also. It 1968, a Z28 won the NHRA Super Stock Championship in a final race between, you guessed it, two Z28s.
It was faster than both the 325hp and 350 hp 396 SS in the 1/4. And when it came to the 375 hp 396 it was within 2 tenths give or take making it a drivers race. But since the Z28 was made all its power in the upper rpms, was lighter, and was making very similar power stock for stock with the 375 hp 396, it would pull on the SS in the top end. I already covered the rare Camaros such as the Yenkos, and ZR1s etc but those were in a different league than both the Z28 and SS and shouldn't be compared. I don't have to look up any performance data from that era, like I said, I have seen the proof in both books and video documentaries.
In the case of the Z28, time has nothing to do with distorting what I believe, b/c it has nothing to do with what I believe or what anyone else believes. It has to do with knowing the difference between what is fact and what isn't. And you can't argue with history and what the Z28 accomplished as both what it was and wasn't designed to do.
This has become both boring and repetitive having to explain myself over and over again. I can see that no one is going to change their mind or even want to try to understand what I'm saying. It seems that everyone is out to try to prove the other guy wrong regardless of what the facts are, and thats not my intentions. With that said, take what I wrote throughout this thread however you'd like to (for anyone that read it) because I'm done.
Last edited by Z28LS1KID; 08-10-2006 at 07:49 PM. Reason: wrote "hp" after 396 by mistake
08-10-2006, 07:04 PM
#109
Originally Posted by Rob
It was faster than the small block SS and the 325HP 396. About even with the 350HP 396. But was easily slower in performance than the 375HP 396. And much slower than any rare 427 equipped Camaro.
And if the cars were modded, forget about it. 100 cubic inches is going to have more potential.
The z/28 had a great engine... for a 302. If you think a 302 is going to be "top dog" over a 396/402, then please come back down to planet earth.
Give the z/28 props for what it was: a homologated trans am racer with superior braking, handling, and with a very nice small block. No need to distort it into being the 1/4 mile king.
08-10-2006, 08:00 PM
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I was able to find out this info on the Z28 and SS...
(Z-28) 302/290bhp: 0-60 in 6.9 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.85 sec @ 101mph.
(SS350) 350/295: 1/4 mile in 15.4 seconds @ 90 mph.
(SS396) 396/325bhp: 0-60 in 6.0 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.5 sec @ 99mph.
I found this info out for each pony car back in the day and each engine options they had for each one (8 cylinders only). I thought we could compare the Camaro to the other pony cars and see how the Z/28 fared against each. Let's take a look at each pony car and what it had back in the day (there were 2 pony cars for each car company)...
American Motor Company
AMX ('68-74):
'68-69: 290V-8/225hp, 343V-8/280hp, 390V-8/315hp
'70: 290V-8/225hp, 343/280hp, 390/325hp
'71: 304V8/210hp, 360/245hp/285hp, 401/330hp
'72-74: 304V8/150nhp, 360/175nhp-220nhp, 401/255nhp
Javelin ('68-74):
'68: 290V-8/225hp, 343V-8/280hp
'69: 290V-8/225hp, 343V-8/280hp, 390V-8/315hp
'70: 290V-8/225hp, 343/280hp, 390/325hp
'71: 304V8/210hp, 360/245hp/285hp, 401/330hp
'72-74: 304V8/150nhp, 360/175nhp-220nhp, 401/255nhp
Daimler Chrysler
Dodge Challenger ('70-74)
'70: 318V-8/230hp, 340/275-290hp, 383/290hp, 426/425hp, 440/350hp
'71: 318V-8/230hp, 340/275hp, 383/275hp, 426/425hp, 440/370hp
'72: 318V-8/150nhp, 340/240nhp, 360/175nhp, 440/280nhp, 440/330nhp (three Holley two-barrels)
'73: 318V-8/150nhp, 340/240nhp, 360/170nhp,440/280nhp
'74: 318V-8/150nhp, 360/200-245nhp 440/275nhp
Plymouth Barracuda ('64 1/2-74)
'64.5: 273V-8/180hp
'65-66: 273V-8/180-235hp
'67: 273V-8/180-235hp, 383/280hp
'68-69: 318V-8/230hp, 340/275hp, 383/290hp
'70: 318V-8/230hp, 340/290hp, 383/335hp, 426/425hp, 440/390hp
'71: 318V-8/230hp, 340/275hp, 383/275-335hp, 426/425hp
'72: 318V-8/150nhp, 340/240hp
'73: 318V-8/150nhp, 340/235hp
'74: 318V-8/150nhp, 360/245hp
Ford Motor Company
Ford Mustang ('64 1/2-73)
'64.5: 260V-8/164hp, 289/210-271hp
'65-66: 289V-8/200-271hp
'67: 289V-8/200-271hp, 390/320hp
'68: 289V-8/195, 302/230-306hp, 390/280-325hp, 427/390hp, 428/335hp
'69: 302V-8/220-290hp, 351/250-290hp, 390/320hp, 428/335-360hp, 429/370hp
'70: 302V-8/220-290hp, 351/250-300hp, 428/335-360hp, 429/375hp
'71: 302V-8/210hp, 351/240-330hp, 429/370-375hp
'72: 302V-8/140nhp, 351/163-248, 266nhp: HO Cleveland
'73: 302V-8/135nhp, 351/156nhp
Mercury Cougar ('67-70):
'67: 289V-8/200-225hp, 390/320hp
'68: 302V-8/210-230hp, 390/280-325hp, 428/335hp
'69: 302V-8/220hp, 351/250-320hp, 427/390hp, 428/335hp
'70: 302V-8/290hp, 351/250-300hp, 428/335hp, 429/375hp
General Motors:
Chevy Camaro ('67-74):
'67-68: 302V-8/290hp, 327/210-275hp, 350/295hp, 396/325-375hp
'69: -8/350hp, 327/210hp, 350/255-300hp, 396/325-375hp, 427/425hp (built in limited numbers)
'70: 307V-8/200hp, 350/250-360hp, 396/350-375hp
'71: 307V-8/200hp, 350/245-330hp, 402/300hp
'72: 307V-8/200hp, 350/165-200nhp, 402/240nhp
'73: 307V-8/115nhp, 350/145-245nhp
'74: 307V-8/115nhp, 350/145-185nhp
Pontiac Firebird ('67-74):
'67: 326V-8/250-285hp, 400/325hp
'68: 350V-8/265-320hp, 400/330hp
'69: 350V-8/265-325hp, 400/330-345hp
'70: 350V-8/255hp, 400/265-335hp
'71: 350V-8/250hp, 400/300hp, 455/325-335hp
'72: 350V-8/160-175nhp, 400/250nhp, 455/300nhp
'73: 350V-8/150hp, 400/170hp, 455/250-310nhp
'74: 350V-8/155hp, 400/175-225hp, 455/250-290nhp
(Z-28) 302/290bhp: 0-60 in 6.9 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.85 sec @ 101mph.
(SS350) 350/295: 1/4 mile in 15.4 seconds @ 90 mph.
(SS396) 396/325bhp: 0-60 in 6.0 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.5 sec @ 99mph.
I found this info out for each pony car back in the day and each engine options they had for each one (8 cylinders only). I thought we could compare the Camaro to the other pony cars and see how the Z/28 fared against each. Let's take a look at each pony car and what it had back in the day (there were 2 pony cars for each car company)...
American Motor Company
AMX ('68-74):
'68-69: 290V-8/225hp, 343V-8/280hp, 390V-8/315hp
'70: 290V-8/225hp, 343/280hp, 390/325hp
'71: 304V8/210hp, 360/245hp/285hp, 401/330hp
'72-74: 304V8/150nhp, 360/175nhp-220nhp, 401/255nhp
Javelin ('68-74):
'68: 290V-8/225hp, 343V-8/280hp
'69: 290V-8/225hp, 343V-8/280hp, 390V-8/315hp
'70: 290V-8/225hp, 343/280hp, 390/325hp
'71: 304V8/210hp, 360/245hp/285hp, 401/330hp
'72-74: 304V8/150nhp, 360/175nhp-220nhp, 401/255nhp
Daimler Chrysler
Dodge Challenger ('70-74)
'70: 318V-8/230hp, 340/275-290hp, 383/290hp, 426/425hp, 440/350hp
'71: 318V-8/230hp, 340/275hp, 383/275hp, 426/425hp, 440/370hp
'72: 318V-8/150nhp, 340/240nhp, 360/175nhp, 440/280nhp, 440/330nhp (three Holley two-barrels)
'73: 318V-8/150nhp, 340/240nhp, 360/170nhp,440/280nhp
'74: 318V-8/150nhp, 360/200-245nhp 440/275nhp
Plymouth Barracuda ('64 1/2-74)
'64.5: 273V-8/180hp
'65-66: 273V-8/180-235hp
'67: 273V-8/180-235hp, 383/280hp
'68-69: 318V-8/230hp, 340/275hp, 383/290hp
'70: 318V-8/230hp, 340/290hp, 383/335hp, 426/425hp, 440/390hp
'71: 318V-8/230hp, 340/275hp, 383/275-335hp, 426/425hp
'72: 318V-8/150nhp, 340/240hp
'73: 318V-8/150nhp, 340/235hp
'74: 318V-8/150nhp, 360/245hp
Ford Motor Company
Ford Mustang ('64 1/2-73)
'64.5: 260V-8/164hp, 289/210-271hp
'65-66: 289V-8/200-271hp
'67: 289V-8/200-271hp, 390/320hp
'68: 289V-8/195, 302/230-306hp, 390/280-325hp, 427/390hp, 428/335hp
'69: 302V-8/220-290hp, 351/250-290hp, 390/320hp, 428/335-360hp, 429/370hp
'70: 302V-8/220-290hp, 351/250-300hp, 428/335-360hp, 429/375hp
'71: 302V-8/210hp, 351/240-330hp, 429/370-375hp
'72: 302V-8/140nhp, 351/163-248, 266nhp: HO Cleveland
'73: 302V-8/135nhp, 351/156nhp
Mercury Cougar ('67-70):
'67: 289V-8/200-225hp, 390/320hp
'68: 302V-8/210-230hp, 390/280-325hp, 428/335hp
'69: 302V-8/220hp, 351/250-320hp, 427/390hp, 428/335hp
'70: 302V-8/290hp, 351/250-300hp, 428/335hp, 429/375hp
General Motors:
Chevy Camaro ('67-74):
'67-68: 302V-8/290hp, 327/210-275hp, 350/295hp, 396/325-375hp
'69: -8/350hp, 327/210hp, 350/255-300hp, 396/325-375hp, 427/425hp (built in limited numbers)
'70: 307V-8/200hp, 350/250-360hp, 396/350-375hp
'71: 307V-8/200hp, 350/245-330hp, 402/300hp
'72: 307V-8/200hp, 350/165-200nhp, 402/240nhp
'73: 307V-8/115nhp, 350/145-245nhp
'74: 307V-8/115nhp, 350/145-185nhp
Pontiac Firebird ('67-74):
'67: 326V-8/250-285hp, 400/325hp
'68: 350V-8/265-320hp, 400/330hp
'69: 350V-8/265-325hp, 400/330-345hp
'70: 350V-8/255hp, 400/265-335hp
'71: 350V-8/250hp, 400/300hp, 455/325-335hp
'72: 350V-8/160-175nhp, 400/250nhp, 455/300nhp
'73: 350V-8/150hp, 400/170hp, 455/250-310nhp
'74: 350V-8/155hp, 400/175-225hp, 455/250-290nhp
08-10-2006, 08:39 PM
#111
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After reading all 6 pages (whipes head), Im ready to state a few things in this thread.
One:
No, COPO's were not stripped down Z's, but base model, stripped I6 Camaros with a BBC 427, the suspension, and a cowl induction hood.
Two:
A few people have mentioned that the 302 was underrated, and that is 100% correct statement, but no one has mentioned that the 396 was underrated too. Without mufflers, made about 500-550hp at the flywheel. Blue printed was about 550-600hp.
Three:
I don't get why most of you are saying that the 302 is the best performing Camaro of the first gens, thats not 100% correct. The Z28 was a road race king, took it home each time out of all Camaros. When you got to drag racing, the 396ci 375hp was king, remember that you could get the SS without all the fancy options like AC as well. The aluminium block was an entire different story, weighed as much as a sbc with bbc power.
My dad was lucky enough to purchase a 1969 Z11 Camaro SS/RS 396 Automatic NEW back in 1969. This car is 1 of 7 cars with Aluminium heads, and this car has *****. I have had the privilidge of riding in the car, learning the history of the car, and hearing stories about what the car has done. With 6k origional miles on the car, she is still a baby.
One:
Originally Posted by RedZoutlaw
The Z28 engine DZ302 was rated at 290 but heard someplace it actually dynoed at 375 or so...again just hearsay.
The yenko/copos were not SSs, they were stripped Zs and had no badging.
The yenko/copos were not SSs, they were stripped Zs and had no badging.
Two:
A few people have mentioned that the 302 was underrated, and that is 100% correct statement, but no one has mentioned that the 396 was underrated too. Without mufflers, made about 500-550hp at the flywheel. Blue printed was about 550-600hp.
Three:
I don't get why most of you are saying that the 302 is the best performing Camaro of the first gens, thats not 100% correct. The Z28 was a road race king, took it home each time out of all Camaros. When you got to drag racing, the 396ci 375hp was king, remember that you could get the SS without all the fancy options like AC as well. The aluminium block was an entire different story, weighed as much as a sbc with bbc power.
My dad was lucky enough to purchase a 1969 Z11 Camaro SS/RS 396 Automatic NEW back in 1969. This car is 1 of 7 cars with Aluminium heads, and this car has *****. I have had the privilidge of riding in the car, learning the history of the car, and hearing stories about what the car has done. With 6k origional miles on the car, she is still a baby.
Last edited by cooltc2004; 08-10-2006 at 08:49 PM.
08-10-2006, 09:15 PM
#112
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Well, I thought I would make another feeble attempt to direct this thread back to it's original question.
Originally Posted by volumebikertom
I heard that the top of the line 09 will be called Z28, instead off SS. Because of Chevy calling alot of vehicles SS now, like the trailblazer, and cobalt, etc. I think this is a good idea, SS seems to have lost its meaning lately, but Z28 still stands high. What do you all think?
Originally Posted by 00 SLVR Z
I was able to find out this info on the Z28 and SS...
(Z-28) 302/290bhp: 0-60 in 6.9 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.85 sec @ 101mph.
(SS350) 350/295: 1/4 mile in 15.4 seconds @ 90 mph.
(SS396) 396/325bhp: 0-60 in 6.0 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.5 sec @ 99mph.
(Z-28) 302/290bhp: 0-60 in 6.9 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.85 sec @ 101mph.
(SS350) 350/295: 1/4 mile in 15.4 seconds @ 90 mph.
(SS396) 396/325bhp: 0-60 in 6.0 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.5 sec @ 99mph.
Originally Posted by Z28LS1KID
The advertised HP was 290 @ 5800rpm. But it wasn't unusual for the Z28 to dyno between 360-400hp stock. By the time you put headers on, open exhaust and the over the counter camshaft, it would actually make 450-460hp.
Obviously, (or maybe not so obviously) we're not talking about what these cars could've done, we're talking about how they came from the factory. And, one more time for the cheap seats, the SS came with the bigger engine and more options. The Top of the Line.
Originally Posted by Z28LS1KID
It seems that everyone is out to try to prove the other guy wrong regardless of what the facts are
