CNBC Camaro Documentary!!
08-08-2008, 12:44 AM
#21
im glad you think GM is going to be ok. i wish i shared your enthusiasm. while its been no secret for awhile now GM has had alot of succees in other countries but yet continue to fail in its biggest market. its homeland.
watching that last night made me feel good about GMs turnaround but also made me have my doubts. while its only a few people on there i have reservations about GM convincing buyers they really are just as good as toyota or anyone else and winning them back.
while you and others might think im being negative im far from it. you wont find a bigger supporter of GM ( besides yourself LOL) im just being realistic. after test driving a G8GT im convinced GM can not only compete it can surpass its competitors. i just hope its not to late.
08-08-2008, 08:20 AM
#22
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since this has turned into badmouth unions and spread misinformation about them this should clear everything up regarding benefits , pay ,pensions. labor cost, heathcare ect.
http://www.uaw.com/barg/07fact/fact02.php
http://www.uaw.com/barg/07fact/fact02.php
doesn't change the fact $32/hour is a hell of a lot of money for the average pay of an assembly line worker.
08-08-2008, 08:32 AM
#23
you couldnt buy a house on that here unless youre working a ton of OT.
08-08-2008, 09:21 AM
#24
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So, a person can stand on a assembly line, go to school and become a policeman to protect your family, or go to school and become a teacher to teach your family. But none can live on 58K in your opinion!!
Well I guess YOU might look into working a second job or finding one that pays more. Damn I am getting old. Gas was .25, a quart of beer was 45, my first car was 35.00, first house under 20K. The next thing I knew we had five children.
I think this recent show confirmed GM knows where it's been, where it's going. Knows it has problems but thinks it has a future. Damn, thats very similar to daily life in a nut shell..
Jakes Dad p.s Don't worry football has already started. People will pay $100.00 per seat to go watch folks run around on a 50 by 100 yard field. Starving, they will spend another $100.00 to eat and drink and another $100.00 to get to the game. Thats $300.00 and I went to public schools. On a 58K income you can do that 193 times each year. Or you can stay home and watch the game on your 52" TV. It's tough in this country..
08-08-2008, 09:49 AM
#25
Here is the problem. You have 180K+ active workers supporting 721K people. If something big isn't done, it's all going to fall like a house of cards. GM will never go out of business, that's not what I mean by bankruptcy. Just little reorganization and debt removal. With their new models and market strategy, they should be number 1 again. What stinks is that they will probably have to screw over all the people below to do it while the big wigs walk away with millions.
Employer Active Retired Surviving Totals
Name members members spouses
Chrysler* 48,927 55,183 23,252 127,362
Ford** 58,300 94,824 28,183 181,307
General Motors 73,454 269,614 69,288 412,356
Totals 180,681 419,621 120,723 721,025
* Includes workers at Chrysler Jeep, Toledo, Ohio
** Ford active total includes 7,180 workers at Automotive Components Holdings
Source: United Auto Workers based on company data. Figures are for the end of the first quarter 2007
Employer Active Retired Surviving Totals
Name members members spouses
Chrysler* 48,927 55,183 23,252 127,362
Ford** 58,300 94,824 28,183 181,307
General Motors 73,454 269,614 69,288 412,356
Totals 180,681 419,621 120,723 721,025
* Includes workers at Chrysler Jeep, Toledo, Ohio
** Ford active total includes 7,180 workers at Automotive Components Holdings
Source: United Auto Workers based on company data. Figures are for the end of the first quarter 2007
08-08-2008, 10:12 AM
#26
Sounds like YOU want the government, or someone, to buy you a house.
So, a person can stand on a assembly line, go to school and become a policeman to protect your family, or go to school and become a teacher to teach your family. But none can live on 58K in your opinion!!
Well I guess YOU might look into working a second job or finding one that pays more. Damn I am getting old. Gas was .25, a quart of beer was 45, my first car was 35.00, first house under 20K. The next thing I knew we had five children.
I think this recent show confirmed GM knows where it's been, where it's going. Knows it has problems but thinks it has a future. Damn, thats very similar to daily life in a nut shell..
Jakes Dad
p.s Don't worry football has already started. People will pay $100.00 per seat to go watch folks run around on a 50 by 100 yard field. Starving, they will spend another $100.00 to eat and drink and another $100.00 to get to the game. Thats $300.00 and I went to public schools. On a 58K income you can do that 193 times each year. Or you can stay home and watch the game on your 52" TV. It's tough in this country..
So, a person can stand on a assembly line, go to school and become a policeman to protect your family, or go to school and become a teacher to teach your family. But none can live on 58K in your opinion!!
Well I guess YOU might look into working a second job or finding one that pays more. Damn I am getting old. Gas was .25, a quart of beer was 45, my first car was 35.00, first house under 20K. The next thing I knew we had five children.
I think this recent show confirmed GM knows where it's been, where it's going. Knows it has problems but thinks it has a future. Damn, thats very similar to daily life in a nut shell..
Jakes Dad p.s Don't worry football has already started. People will pay $100.00 per seat to go watch folks run around on a 50 by 100 yard field. Starving, they will spend another $100.00 to eat and drink and another $100.00 to get to the game. Thats $300.00 and I went to public schools. On a 58K income you can do that 193 times each year. Or you can stay home and watch the game on your 52" TV. It's tough in this country..
08-08-2008, 11:41 AM
#29
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since this has turned into badmouth unions and spread misinformation about them this should clear everything up regarding benefits , pay ,pensions. labor cost, heathcare ect.
http://www.uaw.com/barg/07fact/fact02.php
http://www.uaw.com/barg/07fact/fact02.php
Thank god, some independent and unbiased facts....oh wait... my mistake.
08-08-2008, 12:31 PM
#30
Sounds like YOU want the government, or someone, to buy you a house.
So, a person can stand on a assembly line, go to school and become a policeman to protect your family, or go to school and become a teacher to teach your family. But none can live on 58K in your opinion!!
Well I guess YOU might look into working a second job or finding one that pays more. Damn I am getting old. Gas was .25, a quart of beer was 45, my first car was 35.00, first house under 20K. The next thing I knew we had five children.
I think this recent show confirmed GM knows where it's been, where it's going. Knows it has problems but thinks it has a future. Damn, thats very similar to daily life in a nut shell..
Jakes Dad
p.s Don't worry football has already started. People will pay $100.00 per seat to go watch folks run around on a 50 by 100 yard field. Starving, they will spend another $100.00 to eat and drink and another $100.00 to get to the game. Thats $300.00 and I went to public schools. On a 58K income you can do that 193 times each year. Or you can stay home and watch the game on your 52" TV. It's tough in this country..
So, a person can stand on a assembly line, go to school and become a policeman to protect your family, or go to school and become a teacher to teach your family. But none can live on 58K in your opinion!!
Well I guess YOU might look into working a second job or finding one that pays more. Damn I am getting old. Gas was .25, a quart of beer was 45, my first car was 35.00, first house under 20K. The next thing I knew we had five children.
I think this recent show confirmed GM knows where it's been, where it's going. Knows it has problems but thinks it has a future. Damn, thats very similar to daily life in a nut shell..
Jakes Dad p.s Don't worry football has already started. People will pay $100.00 per seat to go watch folks run around on a 50 by 100 yard field. Starving, they will spend another $100.00 to eat and drink and another $100.00 to get to the game. Thats $300.00 and I went to public schools. On a 58K income you can do that 193 times each year. Or you can stay home and watch the game on your 52" TV. It's tough in this country..
i said no such thing about anyone buying me anything. all i said was on what a GM employee makes a house HERE isnt affordable.
the point i was making was people think GM assemblers are raking it in when in fact they are not.
also wages are negotiated by both sides so i feel sorry for neither of them.
and teachers and cops here make way more than 58k a yr. at least veteran officers and tenured teachers.
Last edited by ULTIMATEORANGESS; 08-08-2008 at 12:40 PM.
08-08-2008, 12:47 PM
#33
That's my point, they can't afford the average house. They shouldn't be able to until they've saved and gotten higher up in the ranks. I'm thinking manufactured home, apartment or something like that. Hell, I lived in a 1972 vintage 600ft^2 trailer for 7 years up until I had 2 kids.
08-08-2008, 02:23 PM
#34
That's my point, they can't afford the average house. They shouldn't be able to until they've saved and gotten higher up in the ranks. I'm thinking manufactured home, apartment or something like that. Hell, I lived in a 1972 vintage 600ft^2 trailer for 7 years up until I had 2 kids.
and even by youre statement you agree what ive been trying to say UAW workers arent raking it in and if GM cant afford to pay its worker that has been there 7-12-18 yrs 58k a yr then not only should they be embarrassed they should either close up, sell or cut back its executive salaries by which that link i posted is a ton of money for a corp. that losses money like cows take *****.
funny how this jap plant pays above UAW wages and does fine so WTF is GMs problem?
http://blogs.automotive.com/6205652/...ted/index.html
08-08-2008, 02:31 PM
#35
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The current veteran UAW member at GM today has an average base wage of $28.12 an hour, but the cost of benefits, including pension and future retiree health care costs, nearly triples the cost to GM to $78.21, according to the Center for Automotive Research.
The cost of providing health care adds from $1,100 to $1,500 to the cost [of each car for GM]. Thats more than the cost of the steel. you can definitely thank the UAW for that.
Unions are a profit seeking organizations, heck the UAW alone has:
- Total Assets: $ 1,267,559,922
- Employees(not members!): 1108
- Employees earning over $75,000: 687
thats 62% of UAW employees banking over $75,000 (most of that is over 6 figures).
Job Banks: Paid Not to Work
Thousands of UAW members are being paid between $70,000 to $85,000 per year not to work. (By some accounts, the expense is even larger, costing the “Big Three” up to $130,000 for each job banker). For 4,200 of these union members, their 8 hour “work day” consists of “filling out crossword puzzles, watching World War II movies and even taking naps.” These job bankers “have drawn nearly full pay and all benefits, often for years, no matter the companies’ health.” As shown by the $4.5 billion the “Big Three” earmarked to fund job banks, this practice is costing the companies billions of dollars at a time that they are losing billions.
Thats a pretty sweet gig. I haven't even touched on the level of corruption that Unions can bring out. The millions of dollars paid out every year in lawsuits against corrupt union officials. etc. Not to mention the fee's, dues and penalties they can force union members to pay or other shady activities.
But hey I'm not here to persuade you to hate unions I'm here to talk about cars. You go right on promoting Unions and I will live happily in my right to work state.
NOTE: I am not saying unions are the US auto industries only problem, that would be foolish, BUT I believe they certainly are not helping the situation.
most info was quickly pulled from
http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/uni...ile.cfm?id=149
or the UAW website listed earlier. All information can be found at numerous sources however.
08-08-2008, 02:35 PM
#36
and thats my point. you cant get anything here for under 350k. NOTHING. even in high crime areas its expensive.
and even by youre statement you agree what ive been trying to say UAW workers arent raking it in and if GM cant afford to pay its worker that has been there 7-12-18 yrs 58k a yr then not only should they be embarrassed they should either close up, sell or cut back its executive salaries by which that link i posted is a ton of money for a corp. that losses money like cows take *****.
funny how this jap plant pays above UAW wages and does fine so WTF is GMs problem?
http://blogs.automotive.com/6205652/...ted/index.html
and even by youre statement you agree what ive been trying to say UAW workers arent raking it in and if GM cant afford to pay its worker that has been there 7-12-18 yrs 58k a yr then not only should they be embarrassed they should either close up, sell or cut back its executive salaries by which that link i posted is a ton of money for a corp. that losses money like cows take *****.
funny how this jap plant pays above UAW wages and does fine so WTF is GMs problem?
http://blogs.automotive.com/6205652/...ted/index.html
08-08-2008, 02:47 PM
#37
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27/hr or 32/hr is a damn good salary in the majority of the country and you can easily afford a nice house on it in MOST places.
most would agree its a shitload of money for someone standing on an assembly line.
08-08-2008, 02:55 PM
#39
thank god most of the rest of the country doesn't have the rediculous prices that NJ and most of the NE do.
27/hr or 32/hr is a damn good salary in the majority of the country and you can easily afford a nice house on it in MOST places.
most would agree its a shitload of money for someone standing on an assembly line.
27/hr or 32/hr is a damn good salary in the majority of the country and you can easily afford a nice house on it in MOST places.
most would agree its a shitload of money for someone standing on an assembly line.
well, wages are megotiated on both sides by individuals that make alot of money so excuse me if i dont shed a tear for those poor defenseless corp.
08-08-2008, 02:59 PM
#40
Fair Enough. But my dislike of unions is accurate.
I'm sorry, but you can't possibly believe thats fair compensation for the job they do. Thats outrageous.
The cost of providing health care adds from $1,100 to $1,500 to the cost [of each car for GM]. Thats more than the cost of the steel. you can definitely thank the UAW for that.
Unions are a profit seeking organizations, heck the UAW alone has:
thats 62% of UAW employees banking over $75,000 (most of that is over 6 figures).
Job Banks: Paid Not to Work
Thats a pretty sweet gig. I haven't even touched on the level of corruption that Unions can bring out. The millions of dollars paid out every year in lawsuits against corrupt union officials. etc. Not to mention the fee's, dues and penalties they can force union members to pay or other shady activities.
But hey I'm not here to persuade you to hate unions I'm here to talk about cars. You go right on promoting Unions and I will live happily in my right to work state.
NOTE: I am not saying unions are the US auto industries only problem, that would be foolish, BUT I believe they certainly are not helping the situation.
most info was quickly pulled from
http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/uni...ile.cfm?id=149
or the UAW website listed earlier. All information can be found at numerous sources however.
I'm sorry, but you can't possibly believe thats fair compensation for the job they do. Thats outrageous.
The cost of providing health care adds from $1,100 to $1,500 to the cost [of each car for GM]. Thats more than the cost of the steel. you can definitely thank the UAW for that.
Unions are a profit seeking organizations, heck the UAW alone has:
- Total Assets: $ 1,267,559,922
- Employees(not members!): 1108
- Employees earning over $75,000: 687
thats 62% of UAW employees banking over $75,000 (most of that is over 6 figures).
Job Banks: Paid Not to Work
Thats a pretty sweet gig. I haven't even touched on the level of corruption that Unions can bring out. The millions of dollars paid out every year in lawsuits against corrupt union officials. etc. Not to mention the fee's, dues and penalties they can force union members to pay or other shady activities.
But hey I'm not here to persuade you to hate unions I'm here to talk about cars. You go right on promoting Unions and I will live happily in my right to work state.
NOTE: I am not saying unions are the US auto industries only problem, that would be foolish, BUT I believe they certainly are not helping the situation.
most info was quickly pulled from
http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/uni...ile.cfm?id=149
or the UAW website listed earlier. All information can be found at numerous sources however.
yes, of course unions are there to make a profit like any other business. HTF else are representatives getting paid? donations?
GM put itself in the situation theyre in. thing is i dont see them blaming unions because theyre not crybabies like alot on here looking to blame its workers for their stupidity and greed.