HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

According to the way things are now the 1LE competes with the track pak 5br0.....not the gt350s. Btw the gt350's have 90% new suspension. That along with the body mods it's way out of the realm of a 1LE. Really out of the realm of what gm did with the z28 too.

the 4banger and the v8 are probably closer in weight than you think. Remember it's not just a 4cyl......it has a turbo, piping and intercooler to deal with.

The 8a is lighter than the 6a also.

assasinator

wrong. 500hp.

use gt350 parts and easy 500.



5 liters 500hp without DI even. if they go that direction.


matching the power of a large displacement V8 is easy with 4 valves. ford has turned the 1980's corner on 4v flat cranks. Pandora's box is open.


if they want a 450hp v8 they can do it with 4.6 liters now.


haven't seen ported head numbers on 2015+ coyote heads. I suspect its near 400 cfm. it IS certainly enough airflow to support 525 hp from 5.2 liters in a factory production emissions legal engine.

TEK302

I very highly doubt anything on the voodoo FPC engine is interchangeable.

assasinator

well right now nobody knows, but it is a coyote block modified.


the coyote crank will fit a 4.6 with minor machining.

bore centers are the same.


internals are more likely to work than not. cams and heads also.


heads look the same in the pictures I looked at

Jc803

iTrader: (2)

Yea Ford can make more power out of the 5.0, just like Chevy could have made more power out of the ZL1. But what do they have in common? The average consumer.

The base 2015 5.0 with manual trans gets 15mpg city and 25mph highway. The LS3 2015 Camaro gets 16mpg city and 24mpg highway. And thats weighing on average 200 lbs more. The LT1 is even more efficient not to mention the camaro is loosing say 200 lbs. I'd be willing to bet the 2016 will pick up another mile or two per gallon. If they make more power out of the 5.0 the once similar fuel economy between the two is going to lean more in favor to the Camaro. Thats probably a move Ford is not willing to take.

For how "efficient" these 5.0s are as many people say, I dont see them doing anything thats going to make a substantial amount of power increase with the average consumer in mind, especially since the Camaro is now putting it on the spot.

Yea direct injection could increase power and fuel economy both, but not by much.

Jc803

iTrader: (2)

And lets not forget, in 2011 when the 5.0 made 412hp and 390tq. And everyone lost their minds saying GM pushrod design is obsolete and inefficient. Then go waaayy back to 1993 when the LT5, also being 32v and 4 cams, made 405hp and 385tq. You're talking about a 7hp and 5tq increase 18 years later.

I wouldnt be surprised is GM dipped in the DOHC pool after deciding to drop the LS series and move on to designing something else. Maybe they're not playing all their cards and reserving something like that for the future when they need it. Or maybe history might repeat itself and we'll have a pushrod LT4 and DOHC LT5. Never know....

OneSlowV

iTrader: (2)

You fail to also say the size displacement the LT5 has over the 5.0.

NW-99SS

iTrader: (6)

Valid point, but so is the VVT on the 5.0

OneSlowV

iTrader: (2)

Yeah true forgot about that . I think it would be badass to have a 6.2 4v LT5

NW-99SS

iTrader: (6)

Totally agree. I love the LS and new LT series motors, but even I'm thinking it's time for DOHC for GM V8s. They have enough R&D from the LT5, and Northstar engines, not to mention current V6s.

TEK302

So what makes the push rod engines make so much more torque than the ohc engines?

NW-99SS

iTrader: (6)

Mostly displacement is these instances. You would need to compare equal displacement engines, with equal valve opening events to really get a proper answer.

Edit: An interesting note in driving perception based on your question. Before the LS engines were fully approved for continued R&D prior to production, GM had two F-bodies, one with a DOHC V8 setup, and the other with a LS design pushrod V8. The driver's of both cars all picked the pushrod V8 for driving impression and power over the DOHC engine, hence the LS family was born.

Jc803

iTrader: (2)

The LT5 was only a 5.7L. It seems the standard for a few years now is 6.2L. Not bashing, just my point was after 18 years of evolution in technology (VVT, better block, head, intake designs, stronger but lighter materials and such) the 5.0 made 7hp and 5tq more in 2011.

The Vette is knows as "Americas sports car". And although the Hellcat doesnt perform for crap, it does make the most power, which to fanboys thats all that matters, even if the power isnt put to the ground. So the Hellcat put the Vette, GT500, and Ford GT on blast. With that said imagine if GM used a DOHC 4v, plus newer technology, plus the larger 6.2L, PLUS boost. Everyone is stoked for the new twin turbo v6 super light weight Ford GT and saying its going to end all. But a boosted DOHC 4V Vette would be some great competition. A 4V DOHC boosted ZR1 would be extremely pricey and in the same price range of the Ford GT, but the top dog Vette should compete with Fords top dog car. Thats a match I'd pay $100 on pay-per-view to watch for sure.

I think its doubtful but at the same time GM has been on a roll lately and seems like they were out to kill the mustang and with the Ford GT coming around they have got to have some tricks up their sleeves to reclaim the throne. Not being a fanboy, I like Ford makes good products because without competition we wouldnt be in this HP war like in the late 60s

JD_AMG

Its really not relevant.
Too many people seem to get lost thinking that manufacturers try to squeeze absolutely everything out of their production engines, which couldn't be further from the truth.
Let me ask, do you really think the LT5 was only capable of 405hp? Did anyone forget that when it first came out it made 375hp? Do you think that GM (going through Lotus) suddenly just discovered that with some tweaks to the heads and exhaust that they could make more power? Or maybe, MAYBE they only wanted 375hp in the beginning? Then decided to make a goal for 405 a few years down the road? I remember reading rumors of Lotus approaching GM with a 450hp goal and GM turning it down saying it wasn't necessary (or something like that).
Manufactures start with a power goal FIRST, not with the engine first. Then from there decide what the best approach is to make that power with all things considered (cost, physical size, weight, marketing, etc etc).
So GM CHOSE to set an initial goal of 375hp from a "high tech" engine for their "king of the hill" corvette. THEN designed the engine with that 375hp goal while meeting emissions, noise and cost etc and other restraints.
Ever notice how with the Corvette for example the power gradually rises from year to year/model to model? Do you think that's just a coincidence? Its called planning ahead (and almost never showing your full deck of cards unless you have to). Too big of power jumps (or too radical of anything changing) can scare away potential customers, and at the end of the day its about selling the car, not winning a high school argument about power.

JD_AMG

I read (years ago) that it was when developing the C5 they did that.
They had the now production C5, and a prototype with a modded chassis to fit the bigger DOHC V8 (was either the LT5 or a modded northstar, can't remember which). The engineers let the GM big wigs drive both cars not telling them which was which and all of them preferred the LS1 car over the DOHC car. They liked the power deliver better and liked the way the car felt better (the front end was significantly lighter due to lack of boat anchor OHC engine).

JD_AMG

You act like this is advantageous on a street production car with no displacement limiting rules. Well, its not when the said 4.6L engine is the size of a big block V8, and cost double of what other 450hp V8 engines would.

It'llrun

Yup, but they're not terrible... EVO broke into the 10's in March and the 3,905 lb (stated race weight) car made 900whp. Not quite "disaster" territory, but I would agree that it's more easily done w/ an earlier chassis.

Agree.

Heh... not quite that bad.

Still wishful thinking, I see.

We already know the ATS-V is over 3,700 and there's little chance the Camaro SS will weigh less than that by any significant amount. It has enough power and balance that 100-150 lb won't really matter.

Bias isn't giving them their thoughts that Mustang can take and maintain a lead... history is.

That said, Mustang sales are RED HOT and may wane in the coming months, giving a perfect timing opportunity for this new, really appealing Camaro.

I hope they continue to pass on DI w/ the 5L V8.

They could rather easily sell a 470hp version using the current basic engine. I don't think they care about it.

It'llrun

I'm not sure what is/isn't, but there's plenty of reason to believe that they'd have to just go with 1 or the other. Of course, they could just switch Mustang 5L's for 5.2's.

It actually looks like you said here, the LT1 could be made more powerful, like the 5L ... but only the 5L would suffer a fuel economy loss. Both would, w/o a doubt. Ford has yet to employ DI or cylinder deactivation... I think they must have a reason.

Then 1yr later, another 12hp... then another 15 for the 2015 model. Let's not forget the 444hp BOSS ... point is, you're cherry picking around the complete story to prove a rather useless point. Also, the 5L is more economical than that old LT5... much more.

In 2000, Ford used a 5.4L and got 385hp on a conservative rating. End result that we KNOW is true... DOHC engines can do what we want them to do and GM has used plenty over the years because, like most of us, they know it. The problem is, big power creates big HEAT and in engineering a vehicle, 1 matters more overall... heat and its dissipation.

... and not fer nuthin' ...it's got vastly better economy and more intrusive emissions systems.

UltraZLS1

iTrader: (13)

Ford can make the coyote surpass the lt1 in their sleep but they would rather get took huh?

If that's true

A. Ford is gay

B. It's not true

Take your pick.

Not saying they can't. It's not ready. Anyone think maybe ford is chasing gm? With the old pushrod lol.
Mind blowing I know.

The fact that gm engineering in a pushrod application is pushing Ford whilst using dohc is a true testament to their engineering prowess.

62nalide

iTrader: (2)

I beg to differ