Test drove a Challenger and a '10 SS today...
05-01-2010, 02:54 PM
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Test drove a Challenger and a '10 SS today... I've been keeping very up to date on the muscle car wars lately, but as of yesterday, have not gotten to drive any of the modern muscle examples. It was a perfect day out today, 85 degrees, and I thought I would do so.
I happened to be in the area running other errands, and made a stop at the local Dodge dealership to take a look at their models. I started talking to one of the salesman and asked if there was an R/T model with the six speed transmission available to take out, and he did me one better: there was a (crazy plum?) purple SRT8 sitting right outside equipped as such. He fastened the dealer plate and said to me: "I have to go help someone else... have fun man..." I was shocked he let me take it out alone, but nonetheless, the thirty minutes went by fast. The salesman, Jerome, couldn't have been more helpful afterward. No pressure whatsoever, he simply gave me his card and said give him a call if I'm interested. This is the way to do business, folks. I'm twenty-one, by the way, but an extremely safe driver (you can see it in my eyes...).
A couple of things I noticed: after driving my '02 SS to and from the dealership, the clutch play in the Challenger (and most new cars probably) is drastically different. That clutch was featherweight, and I felt it had just the right amount of play in it - perfect. The visibility in this car is reduced from that of my '02; it feels as though you're sitting lower, since your eye-line is about level with the top of the steering wheel - and I'm six feet tall. Although the 6.1L Hemi is quiet, you can tell when revving the engine that it is just waiting to be unleashed with a cat-back or more. The pistol grip shifter is quite lame, in my opinion, but certainly not a deal breaker, since it's so easily modified. Also, the seats in the Challenger seemed great. One thing I did notice, and this is probably due in part to the T-Tops on my '02, but it seemed that when chugging along in the Challenger down the main road - that I was hidden from the view of other drivers - almost as if I was in my own little cave. I'll also note that the car definitely didn't feel as agile as my LS1 Camaro - but for me it's not ALL about speed. Overall, I like the Challenger. I definitely think it wins hands down in the "looks" department when compared with its counterparts.
Fast forward one hour. I'm cruising in my SS headed back home, and I decide to make a pit stop at the Chevy dealership. I roll the dice to see if they'll let me take out a '10 SS, and if not, it's somewhat understandable. I notice as I'm walking in there's a 98-02 model bright red Z28 model, with black 35th Anniversary-style stripes on the hood. It had some goofy chrome rims, some type of an RS spoiler, a body kit, the ugliest Euro tail lights I've ever seen, and an exhaust that just didn't look right. I wanted to go over and rip the tail lights off on principle alone, but I quickly veered for the main door to the showroom with my original intent in mind.
I walk in and start chatting with one of the salesman, and he's condescending right off the bat. Granted, I am a twenty-one year old male in athletic shorts and a t-shirt, but you don't "talk down" to potential customers, regardless of their demographic. He is very reluctant to let me test drive an SS, and begins to blabber. "You know... it's nothing personal, but those aren't your everyday car. We can't just let everyone take them out." I doubt he saw me pull in with my '02. Anyways, I wasn't about to argue with him, so I simply said: "No problem... I completely understand. I'll hit up the next Chevy dealership down the road... thanks." As I turn, he then starts to tell me that he'll ask the sales manager for approval. As he consults with the chief, I'm thinking that I'm not about to wait around for more than another minute. Eventually he takes me outside to a white 1SS with the RS package, black stripes, and a six speed manual. He tells me to wait here as he scans my ID. Five minutes later (I'm kind of ticked off at this point), he sends another man out in a suit. There was an SUV in front of me blocking his view as he was en route to my position; as soon as he made his way around the SUV and saw my person, he snickered under his breath. As if: "we're really letting this kid take this car out?" Yeah. Whatever.
I get in the SS, and immediately I like the driver stance better than the Challenger's - although the seats aren't as formed to fit your body. I'm not a big "interior" guy, so I don't pay much attention to the inside of either of these cars, by the way. The clutch on the '10 SS was terrible - in my opinion. From the floor to the fully engaged point, I swear it's roughly five inches. As we continue, the salesman gets in the passenger seat. I can tell immediately this guy is the cliche, 'pompous and arrogant' car salesman, but I don't care. Maybe I should have showed up in proper business attire - what is wrong with me? He's coming with me on the ride he says. He has a predetermined route to take, which consists of one loop around the shopping mall on the 30MPH road - fine. It's not the autobahn, but he as well as I knew that I was probably not giving this dealership any business at this point. As we pull out of the parking lot, he asks what I'm driving now. I point out my '02 35th Anniversary SS that is parked in the lot, and he doesn't even turn his head to look. He wasn't amused, apparently.
Couple things I noticed: as stated before, the clutch is abysmal, in my opinion. The LS3 is so incredibly quiet (or tied down by emissions control, you make the choice), that you would never know the beast is displacing 6.2 liters of fuel/air mixture under the hood. The Challenger was quiet, but beefy. The Camaro was too muted. As we wander down the 30MPH street, there's not much I can do to analyze the engines performance. I'm sure it's slightly quicker than my LS1, but it definitely did not feel as brisk or energetic - same with the Challenger. The view out in front of the car is superior to the Mopar SRT8, but the view to the right and left is diminished; the reasoning for this is that from the top of the door to where the window starts is only about eleven inches - they're basically "slits" on the side of the car. The shifter was nice - it didn't have as short a "throw" as the Challengers, but it was on a level plane. If you are unaware of what I'm referring to, some cars have the shifter where when in neutral, the shifter is angled to the left. I'm not a big fan of this configuration.
I make my five minute "loop," and we're pulling back into the dealership. I ask: "How much did you guys take in trade for that Z28?" (aforementioned in this post). "We actually bought it from xxxxxxx." I don't remember what he said, but I continued to ask questions. He said: "That's not just any Camaro, that's an SLP car." Curious as to what in the hell he's talking about, I pour salt on the gradually exposed wound. "That Z28 is? I could have sworn that only the SS models were modified by SLP?" (I said this politely, of course) "Nope... it's all verified. SLP car. It even has the Chip Foose wheels." I'm thinking to myself: perhaps this is why it looks so horrid with aftermarket tail lights, body kit, and an overdone exhaust - if that guy was involved in its appearance, I'd believe it. He then tells me that it has a special performance package and is "...pushing 335 horsepower. We had it up on the lift to confirm that it was a special edition." Cool, great. I think you're talking out of your league, but sure.
As we're walking back in the showroom, I start talking cars with this guy, a'la Mustang 5.0, the Hemi-Challenger, the proposed 2011 Z28 Camaro. I realize this guy has no clue about what he's talking about. I take his card, thank him, and leave.
After driving both cars, I definitely think the Challenger is the "cooler" car. That said, we all know the '10 SS has it beat performance-wise, and the 5.0 Stang will be throwing the competition into a frenzy next year. However, rest assured that I am not (ever) contemplating selling my 35th Anniversary SS... I love it too much.
UPDATE: I've found the "SLP Z28" on their website. I don't claim to be the end-all-be-all Camaro expert, but this looks like a normal 2000 Z28 with a bad dress up to me:
http://www.northstarchevrolet.com/Ve...ails/689268793
Also, since I took the Challenger out alone, I snapped a few pictures:
I happened to be in the area running other errands, and made a stop at the local Dodge dealership to take a look at their models. I started talking to one of the salesman and asked if there was an R/T model with the six speed transmission available to take out, and he did me one better: there was a (crazy plum?) purple SRT8 sitting right outside equipped as such. He fastened the dealer plate and said to me: "I have to go help someone else... have fun man..." I was shocked he let me take it out alone, but nonetheless, the thirty minutes went by fast. The salesman, Jerome, couldn't have been more helpful afterward. No pressure whatsoever, he simply gave me his card and said give him a call if I'm interested. This is the way to do business, folks. I'm twenty-one, by the way, but an extremely safe driver (you can see it in my eyes...).
A couple of things I noticed: after driving my '02 SS to and from the dealership, the clutch play in the Challenger (and most new cars probably) is drastically different. That clutch was featherweight, and I felt it had just the right amount of play in it - perfect. The visibility in this car is reduced from that of my '02; it feels as though you're sitting lower, since your eye-line is about level with the top of the steering wheel - and I'm six feet tall. Although the 6.1L Hemi is quiet, you can tell when revving the engine that it is just waiting to be unleashed with a cat-back or more. The pistol grip shifter is quite lame, in my opinion, but certainly not a deal breaker, since it's so easily modified. Also, the seats in the Challenger seemed great. One thing I did notice, and this is probably due in part to the T-Tops on my '02, but it seemed that when chugging along in the Challenger down the main road - that I was hidden from the view of other drivers - almost as if I was in my own little cave. I'll also note that the car definitely didn't feel as agile as my LS1 Camaro - but for me it's not ALL about speed. Overall, I like the Challenger. I definitely think it wins hands down in the "looks" department when compared with its counterparts.
Fast forward one hour. I'm cruising in my SS headed back home, and I decide to make a pit stop at the Chevy dealership. I roll the dice to see if they'll let me take out a '10 SS, and if not, it's somewhat understandable. I notice as I'm walking in there's a 98-02 model bright red Z28 model, with black 35th Anniversary-style stripes on the hood. It had some goofy chrome rims, some type of an RS spoiler, a body kit, the ugliest Euro tail lights I've ever seen, and an exhaust that just didn't look right. I wanted to go over and rip the tail lights off on principle alone, but I quickly veered for the main door to the showroom with my original intent in mind.
I walk in and start chatting with one of the salesman, and he's condescending right off the bat. Granted, I am a twenty-one year old male in athletic shorts and a t-shirt, but you don't "talk down" to potential customers, regardless of their demographic. He is very reluctant to let me test drive an SS, and begins to blabber. "You know... it's nothing personal, but those aren't your everyday car. We can't just let everyone take them out." I doubt he saw me pull in with my '02. Anyways, I wasn't about to argue with him, so I simply said: "No problem... I completely understand. I'll hit up the next Chevy dealership down the road... thanks." As I turn, he then starts to tell me that he'll ask the sales manager for approval. As he consults with the chief, I'm thinking that I'm not about to wait around for more than another minute. Eventually he takes me outside to a white 1SS with the RS package, black stripes, and a six speed manual. He tells me to wait here as he scans my ID. Five minutes later (I'm kind of ticked off at this point), he sends another man out in a suit. There was an SUV in front of me blocking his view as he was en route to my position; as soon as he made his way around the SUV and saw my person, he snickered under his breath. As if: "we're really letting this kid take this car out?" Yeah. Whatever.
I get in the SS, and immediately I like the driver stance better than the Challenger's - although the seats aren't as formed to fit your body. I'm not a big "interior" guy, so I don't pay much attention to the inside of either of these cars, by the way. The clutch on the '10 SS was terrible - in my opinion. From the floor to the fully engaged point, I swear it's roughly five inches. As we continue, the salesman gets in the passenger seat. I can tell immediately this guy is the cliche, 'pompous and arrogant' car salesman, but I don't care. Maybe I should have showed up in proper business attire - what is wrong with me? He's coming with me on the ride he says. He has a predetermined route to take, which consists of one loop around the shopping mall on the 30MPH road - fine. It's not the autobahn, but he as well as I knew that I was probably not giving this dealership any business at this point. As we pull out of the parking lot, he asks what I'm driving now. I point out my '02 35th Anniversary SS that is parked in the lot, and he doesn't even turn his head to look. He wasn't amused, apparently.
Couple things I noticed: as stated before, the clutch is abysmal, in my opinion. The LS3 is so incredibly quiet (or tied down by emissions control, you make the choice), that you would never know the beast is displacing 6.2 liters of fuel/air mixture under the hood. The Challenger was quiet, but beefy. The Camaro was too muted. As we wander down the 30MPH street, there's not much I can do to analyze the engines performance. I'm sure it's slightly quicker than my LS1, but it definitely did not feel as brisk or energetic - same with the Challenger. The view out in front of the car is superior to the Mopar SRT8, but the view to the right and left is diminished; the reasoning for this is that from the top of the door to where the window starts is only about eleven inches - they're basically "slits" on the side of the car. The shifter was nice - it didn't have as short a "throw" as the Challengers, but it was on a level plane. If you are unaware of what I'm referring to, some cars have the shifter where when in neutral, the shifter is angled to the left. I'm not a big fan of this configuration.
I make my five minute "loop," and we're pulling back into the dealership. I ask: "How much did you guys take in trade for that Z28?" (aforementioned in this post). "We actually bought it from xxxxxxx." I don't remember what he said, but I continued to ask questions. He said: "That's not just any Camaro, that's an SLP car." Curious as to what in the hell he's talking about, I pour salt on the gradually exposed wound. "That Z28 is? I could have sworn that only the SS models were modified by SLP?" (I said this politely, of course) "Nope... it's all verified. SLP car. It even has the Chip Foose wheels." I'm thinking to myself: perhaps this is why it looks so horrid with aftermarket tail lights, body kit, and an overdone exhaust - if that guy was involved in its appearance, I'd believe it. He then tells me that it has a special performance package and is "...pushing 335 horsepower. We had it up on the lift to confirm that it was a special edition." Cool, great. I think you're talking out of your league, but sure.
As we're walking back in the showroom, I start talking cars with this guy, a'la Mustang 5.0, the Hemi-Challenger, the proposed 2011 Z28 Camaro. I realize this guy has no clue about what he's talking about. I take his card, thank him, and leave.
After driving both cars, I definitely think the Challenger is the "cooler" car. That said, we all know the '10 SS has it beat performance-wise, and the 5.0 Stang will be throwing the competition into a frenzy next year. However, rest assured that I am not (ever) contemplating selling my 35th Anniversary SS... I love it too much.
UPDATE: I've found the "SLP Z28" on their website. I don't claim to be the end-all-be-all Camaro expert, but this looks like a normal 2000 Z28 with a bad dress up to me:
http://www.northstarchevrolet.com/Ve...ails/689268793
Also, since I took the Challenger out alone, I snapped a few pictures:
Last edited by The Bronx Bull; 05-01-2010 at 06:21 PM.
05-01-2010, 03:07 PM
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Good post. Too bad you didn't really get a chance to take out the '10 Camaro. I'm still wanting to drive you.
It's probably just a Z28 with aftermarket hood, egay euro lights, exhaust, and rims. You'd have to check the rpo codes to see if it's a real SS since I'm not sure if you could get the SS with the Y3F appearance package or which spoiler would take precedence if that even happened. If it's a real SS then that's likely all they meant by being an SLP car despite it's lack of any other SLP options. And 16k? What a joke...
It's probably just a Z28 with aftermarket hood, egay euro lights, exhaust, and rims. You'd have to check the rpo codes to see if it's a real SS since I'm not sure if you could get the SS with the Y3F appearance package or which spoiler would take precedence if that even happened. If it's a real SS then that's likely all they meant by being an SLP car despite it's lack of any other SLP options. And 16k? What a joke...
05-01-2010, 03:09 PM
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Yeah that's just a Z with an SS hood, RS spoiler, stripes, and some other stuff. I hate when dealerships are like that.
It sounds like a lot of your experience was based on the actual people at the dealership, but I will agree on one thing which is I'm not a fan of the 5th gen's clutch either. I haven't driven a Challenger to compare and I'm not the greatest with a clutch, but I just think its kinda tricky. Like the first time I drove my step dad's 2010 SS/RS I did fine with the clutch and then it was kinda tricky. I personally like clutches that engage right way and have very little play.
It sounds like a lot of your experience was based on the actual people at the dealership, but I will agree on one thing which is I'm not a fan of the 5th gen's clutch either. I haven't driven a Challenger to compare and I'm not the greatest with a clutch, but I just think its kinda tricky. Like the first time I drove my step dad's 2010 SS/RS I did fine with the clutch and then it was kinda tricky. I personally like clutches that engage right way and have very little play.
05-01-2010, 03:59 PM
#4
i would have hit the traction control switch and LAUNCHED that 2010 SS down that 30mph road to at least 60mph. if some idiot car salesman wasted that much of my time and then expected to sell a 400+hp muscle car on a 30mph road around a mall parking lot, he deserves to **** his pants.
05-01-2010, 04:12 PM
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sad thing is someone is going to over pay for a camaro that is not anything special..well maybe retarded special and are going to be fed that line of bull and not no any better..most times salesmen dont have a clue what they are talking about, but because they deal with cars every day they want to sound like it to others
05-01-2010, 04:17 PM
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sad thing is someone is going to over pay for a camaro that is not anything special..well maybe retarded special and are going to be fed that line of bull and not no any better..most times salesmen dont have a clue what they are talking about, but because they deal with cars every day they want to sound like it to others
05-01-2010, 04:18 PM
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I was looking at a 02 z28 that was priced at 10k. The salesman wouldnt even let me drive it without proof of funds. I told him my bank told me to go find a car so i had my own financing and Im 27 and we drove up in a 04 gto. As I said fine I was walking off he said wait let me get you my card if you can get proof of funds so I say no dont worry about it there are 100s of car lots in town. A couple days later I bought a corvette for 14k. I went back to the dealer and thanked him for not letting me drive that piece of junk. whats sad is that I was dead set on the z28 but not buying a car i cant drive.
I love dealers like that when I go buy a new camaro I am going to drive up in my 500 dollar daily beater and see If they will take me serious and if not bye Ill go down the road.
I love dealers like that when I go buy a new camaro I am going to drive up in my 500 dollar daily beater and see If they will take me serious and if not bye Ill go down the road.
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05-01-2010, 04:20 PM
#8
sad thing is someone is going to over pay for a camaro that is not anything special..well maybe retarded special and are going to be fed that line of bull and not no any better..most times salesmen dont have a clue what they are talking about, but because they deal with cars every day they want to sound like it to others
05-01-2010, 04:26 PM
#9
sad thing is someone is going to over pay for a camaro that is not anything special..well maybe retarded special and are going to be fed that line of bull and not no any better..most times salesmen dont have a clue what they are talking about, but because they deal with cars every day they want to sound like it to others
05-01-2010, 04:47 PM
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Part of that should be on people to educate themselves before they buy a car. You should go in there and know more about the car than the dealer. Yeah dealerships shouldn't mislead customers, but to protect themselves its best to know your stuff.
05-01-2010, 05:03 PM
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Your experience at the GM dealership is the exact same experience I have ever had a GM dealership. I swear it's as if they really don't want people to buy their car's. Note to dealer, if I walk onto your lot, I've scouted the area, saw something I want on your lot, called and got a price over the phone, and am their with cash in hand to purchase, shy of what you're giving me for my trade.
05-01-2010, 05:24 PM
#12
The new Challengers are sweet, I like them a lot better than the new SS's..
I have had good experiences with dealers, pretty much no questions asked and they threw me the keys to a few Camaro's and Trans Am's.. Only one asked to even see my license.
I have had good experiences with dealers, pretty much no questions asked and they threw me the keys to a few Camaro's and Trans Am's.. Only one asked to even see my license.
05-01-2010, 05:52 PM
#13
Towards the end there, I got pretty heated when he was saying some **** about me not actually wanting the 2010 and if I did, I would just order one (NEVER gonna happen). At that point I let him have it. Seriously, I may only be 20, but when you drive up in a '06 Escalade, they should know you can afford it and are serious about it. 
On the other hand, a while back I was taking a look at a G8 GT sitting at another lot, and he guy walks out, and was a VERY cool guy. After a few minutes of talking, he says, get it. I'm like nah man, I was just lookin at it. He goes, get in the damn car! I was like, iight.
We proceeded to take it for a test drive, where he took it up to about 110. After we swapped, he goes, lets see what this thing will really do. At this point, I'm like, ok, a short run to 80 or so will be fine, but after I let off, hes like, come on man, take it up there. So I topped that bitch out. He was pretty damn cool about it. More salesmen should be like that, cause at the time I wasn't even looking to buy anything, but he damn near convinced me to buy it without ever asking if I was even interested in it.
05-01-2010, 06:03 PM
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I got to drive a 10 SS at our ride and drive at work yesterday. It was a 6 speed and I hated it. I don't know if they de tuned these cars or what. But I thought 425 hp would feel a hell of a lot better than that thing. The clutch was horrid. Obviously this car had a rough 7K miles. I think the synchros were already starting to go seeing as both times I shifted hard into 3rd, she had a little grind. I turned off traction control, and rolled into 1st expecting the rear to get loose on me, but nothing. Oh well, still fun to thrash a brand new camaro and not have to worry about it. haha
05-02-2010, 11:05 AM
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All the salesmen around here act like they know what they're talking about. Have any of you ever heard of a 4clyl Trans AM? No bs, I got asked "Do you have a 4clyl, 6, or 8?" I laughed and walked away.
05-02-2010, 12:05 PM
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I am a salesman and I cannot STAND when people give me BS and try to pressure sell me. It just doesn't work for me. When I come to look at a car or truck you can rest assured I know 20 times more about that particular model than you do.
When I bought my Formula the salesman knew it too. I had called several times about it since it was 3 hours away I wanted to make sure it was there. I walk in and ask him about it (he already saw me checking it out in the lot). I introduce myself and he says "let me see your license real quick", throws me the keys and tells me to turn the traction control off.
The car had been sitting awhile I believe, it was a little sluggish at first, but after about 20 minutes it was running really good again. I come back and ask him where to sign and throw 5k down on the table for a down payment. That is how you sell a car....he knew better than to try to feed me a bunch of BS about it.
When I bought my Formula the salesman knew it too. I had called several times about it since it was 3 hours away I wanted to make sure it was there. I walk in and ask him about it (he already saw me checking it out in the lot). I introduce myself and he says "let me see your license real quick", throws me the keys and tells me to turn the traction control off.
The car had been sitting awhile I believe, it was a little sluggish at first, but after about 20 minutes it was running really good again. I come back and ask him where to sign and throw 5k down on the table for a down payment. That is how you sell a car....he knew better than to try to feed me a bunch of BS about it.
05-02-2010, 05:51 PM
#17
Inside and out I think the Challenger is a better looking car than the SS. The only drawback is the weight and handling. I saw a bone stock SRT8 make 380+ on a dynojet so they are stout....... If I were in the market it would be a tough call between those two...
05-02-2010, 08:09 PM
#19
I work at a Dodge dealer so I drive them all the time. The Challenger is nice looking, nice riding, nice sounding, but if youre driving it hard it does feel heavy. We have been selling quite a few of these lately, partially due to the free $2000 accessories package incentives that come with them. I dont recommend getting the optional upgraded Mopar catback, it looks better but sounds no better than the stock one. I just installed one of these last week. Even the salespeople were pissed, especially after I had my SS idling in the shop. They wished it sounded like mine. I just got a chance to drive a 2010 camaro last week. I cant call it a fair comparison as it was a supercharged M6. It did move out very well though, definitely a blast to drive. Not sure why you thought the clutch felt so much different than the SRT8s cuz I didnt feel it. It was much easier to push than my LS7 with Tick master cyl. I do like the shifter handle in the SS better than that pistol grip thing in the SRT8 although it does look cool. The camaro felt nimbler than the Challenger, & it had a great ride to it. Not really a soft feel but no harshness at all like my 2000 has at times. I still not a fan of the radio setup in the new camaro, they didnt leave many options for us there.
I just got a chance to drive a 2010 camaro last week. I cant call it a fair comparison as it was a supercharged M6. It did move out very well though, definitely a blast to drive. Not sure why you thought the clutch felt so much different than the SRT8s cuz I didnt feel it. It was much easier to push than my LS7 with Tick master cyl. I do like the shifter handle in the SS better than that pistol grip thing in the SRT8 although it does look cool. The camaro felt nimbler than the Challenger, & it had a great ride to it. Not really a soft feel but no harshness at all like my 2000 has at times. I still not a fan of the radio setup in the new camaro, they didnt leave many options for us there.
05-02-2010, 08:38 PM
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Buddy, I literally have no clue what you do for a living but a journalist would be a good suggestion because that sounded like something straight out of motor trend. thank you for all the information and your personal opinion