4th gen F-Body WITHOUT T-Tops..
03-01-2011, 06:03 PM
#61
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I have to agree with 99FormulaM6r, The added roof supports of the hardtop have to increase the torsional rigidity of the roof structure over a T-top car.
Maybe it's not alot like he said 1-2% but it is something.
I also don't regret getting a Hardtop over T-tops considering the 4th Gen T-tops are quite small compared to my Old 2nd Gen Trans Am. But that was 20+ years ago and some of us have less hair to blow in the wind and would rather not get sunburn on the scalp.
I ordered a Hardtop M6 because I wanted the lightest fastest and cheapest Pontiac version F-car I could get.
Maybe it's not alot like he said 1-2% but it is something.
I also don't regret getting a Hardtop over T-tops considering the 4th Gen T-tops are quite small compared to my Old 2nd Gen Trans Am. But that was 20+ years ago and some of us have less hair to blow in the wind and would rather not get sunburn on the scalp.
I ordered a Hardtop M6 because I wanted the lightest fastest and cheapest Pontiac version F-car I could get.
03-01-2011, 10:22 PM
#62
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lol, I never said the unibody was held together by spot welds and thin sheet metal, I'm saying that it's not like these cars are held together by a large frame with a body on it....it's a unibody car that's held together by the body panels (the sheetmetal is what I was getting at). I'm also not saying that this will make a huge difference with the rigidity with the vehicle, but even if it is a 1-2% like you said, it is a difference, whether measurable or not.
I'm not getting defensive by any means. I don't agree with others saying that my hardtop makes these cars go from a wetnoodle to a F1 car (not that extreme, but you know). I doubt that anybody can tell a difference driving a well set up hardtop to T-top car back to back, or even tracking them.
I don't have regrets. I like the looks of a hardtop much more than a T-top car, I like not having to worry about leaks/noises, plus I think the look of an f-body with the tops off looks....off. I also wouldn't hesitate to race a T-top car, whether straight line or auto-x'ing. My main point was that there is some extra rigidity to be gained by the supports up top, whether or not it'
s measurable or not.
EDIT: I'd like to add some pictures of the pieces that are "barely" attached to the car.
And removed:
I'm not getting defensive by any means. I don't agree with others saying that my hardtop makes these cars go from a wetnoodle to a F1 car (not that extreme, but you know). I doubt that anybody can tell a difference driving a well set up hardtop to T-top car back to back, or even tracking them.
I don't have regrets. I like the looks of a hardtop much more than a T-top car, I like not having to worry about leaks/noises, plus I think the look of an f-body with the tops off looks....off. I also wouldn't hesitate to race a T-top car, whether straight line or auto-x'ing. My main point was that there is some extra rigidity to be gained by the supports up top, whether or not it'
s measurable or not.
EDIT: I'd like to add some pictures of the pieces that are "barely" attached to the car.
And removed:
03-02-2011, 01:31 AM
#63
Screw structural rigidity. T-tops do wonders with the broads 
They made certain activites within the car possible (on a nice day, preferably night of course), that would be otherwise impossible with a roof on our already small *** cars. If you know what I'm sayin'. 
Plus there's nothing like doing 120 with the tops off on a nice summer day heading to the beach driving over a bridge surrounded by water. Sick memories
They made certain activites within the car possible (on a nice day, preferably night of course), that would be otherwise impossible with a roof on our already small *** cars. If you know what I'm sayin'. Plus there's nothing like doing 120 with the tops off on a nice summer day heading to the beach driving over a bridge surrounded by water. Sick memories
03-02-2011, 02:43 AM
#64
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i prefer t-top anyway... 90 percent of cars nowadays are hardtop anywho... i'd rather rock a common t-top in an fbody, then a "rare" hard top any day! I wish my z06 was t top like my t/a 
03-02-2011, 12:01 PM
#65
To the OP if you want a hard top look for a B4C.
For everyone saying t-tops have the same rigidity as hard tops, you're wrong.
Drive down the road and stick the tip of your finger in the t -top gap. I have UMI weld in SFC's in both of my cars and I can feel the gap squeezing my finger when driving.
I've had a 2002 B4C hard top parts car and yes the roof is the same except for the structural supports spot welded above the windows. T-top cars have the same thin center section only with no supports on the sides.
And someone said something about weak spot welds? The whole damn car body is held together with spot welds. Theres not a mig, tig, stick, or braze on the body anywhere.
For everyone saying t-tops have the same rigidity as hard tops, you're wrong.
Drive down the road and stick the tip of your finger in the t -top gap. I have UMI weld in SFC's in both of my cars and I can feel the gap squeezing my finger when driving.
I've had a 2002 B4C hard top parts car and yes the roof is the same except for the structural supports spot welded above the windows. T-top cars have the same thin center section only with no supports on the sides.
And someone said something about weak spot welds? The whole damn car body is held together with spot welds. Theres not a mig, tig, stick, or braze on the body anywhere.
03-02-2011, 06:07 PM
#66
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Screw structural rigidity. T-tops do wonders with the broads They made certain activites within the car possible (on a nice day, preferably night of course), that would be otherwise impossible with a roof on our already small *** cars. If you know what I'm sayin'.
Plus there's nothing like doing 120 with the tops off on a nice summer day heading to the beach driving over a bridge surrounded by water. Sick memories
They made certain activites within the car possible (on a nice day, preferably night of course), that would be otherwise impossible with a roof on our already small *** cars. If you know what I'm sayin'. Plus there's nothing like doing 120 with the tops off on a nice summer day heading to the beach driving over a bridge surrounded by water. Sick memories
then in the car.And 120 with the T's off is like driving with a parachute open.
JMO
03-02-2011, 11:45 PM
#68
I didn't buy the car to impress girls. Let's be perfectly clear, they wanted my **** way before the car. The 'Hawk just adds to the already impressive package. And it's not my fault if they don't wanna wait to get back to my place, the t-tops make it possible is all I'm sayin'!
Parachute effect? If I'm still accelerating at 120, I don't think I have a problem with anything slowing me down. On a nice day cruising I'm not trying to break the sound barrier, just tryna tear up a nice straightaway surrounded by water.
03-03-2011, 02:45 AM
#70
Like mom's basement, right?
I didn't buy the car to impress girls. Let's be perfectly clear, they wanted my **** way before the car. The 'Hawk just adds to the already impressive package. And it's not my fault if they don't wanna wait to get back to my place, the t-tops make it possible is all I'm sayin'!
I didn't buy the car to impress girls. Let's be perfectly clear, they wanted my **** way before the car. The 'Hawk just adds to the already impressive package. And it's not my fault if they don't wanna wait to get back to my place, the t-tops make it possible is all I'm sayin'!
03-03-2011, 03:11 AM
#71
ive owned several f body cars, some ttop some hard top, some convertibles, I love my ttop car i have now, car is white with top half black, Some people didnt even realize it was a ttop car, Cause it all blends in, As for being lazy to take em out, Im not i pull them out a lot when the weather is nice, But i do bitch an say i wish i still had my vert, Cause all id do is unlatch an drop the top, As for being more stable an less twisting i do believe is true, you can ride down the road with your hand on the edge of the ttop where it meets the sail panel or windshield an can feel the body twist an creek, As for the hard top cars you cant feel this in your hand at these points, so it has to have more structure to them than ttop cars, But i love my ttop car, It is nice on a cool summer night riding around, Cam hitting, stars above an your ladys hair blowing in the wind, Plus with ttops you can do other things from the driver seat!!!! lol I love em all, 1st 2nd 3rd 4th an 5th gens, hard top ttop or no top
03-03-2011, 05:31 PM
#76
But I would agree that I wouldn't really want to do it with T-tops or a convertible, lol
EDIT: To avoid confusion, I mean I wouldn't want to do it with them off/top down....lol
Last edited by 99FormulaM6r; 03-03-2011 at 06:20 PM.
03-03-2011, 06:17 PM
#77
03-03-2011, 07:21 PM
#79
I've done well over 120 mph with the T-tops out. Definitely a windy ride, to say the least, but I didn't back off due to a fear of the car coming apart or pending lift off. I simply ran out of road.
As was stated previously, with the tops out the aerodynamics of the car well... literally... "go out the window".
I wonder how much room would be necessary to bury the speedo with the top down or the T-tops out?
As was stated previously, with the tops out the aerodynamics of the car well... literally... "go out the window".
I wonder how much room would be necessary to bury the speedo with the top down or the T-tops out?
03-03-2011, 08:22 PM
#80
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I've done well over 120 mph with the T-tops out. Definitely a windy ride, to say the least, but I didn't back off due to a fear of the car coming apart or pending lift off. I simply ran out of road.
As was stated previously, with the tops out the aerodynamics of the car well... literally... "go out the window".
I wonder how much room would be necessary to bury the speedo with the top down or the T-tops out?
As was stated previously, with the tops out the aerodynamics of the car well... literally... "go out the window".
I wonder how much room would be necessary to bury the speedo with the top down or the T-tops out?