Kelly BB going in RIGHT direction?
04-04-2015, 04:28 AM
#1
Kelly BB going in RIGHT direction? At least I personally would like to think so. I'm setup for automatic email notifications when the value changes. I got this one last night.....
Your Kelley Blue Book® Values have changed
for the week of Apr 03, 2015 to Apr 09, 2015
Up 3% Increase in Value
since Mar 21, 2015 2002 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Coupe 2D
Based on:
Mileage: 32600 Update
ZIP Code: 10547 Update
Your Kelley Blue Book® Values have changed
for the week of Apr 03, 2015 to Apr 09, 2015
Up 3% Increase in Value
since Mar 21, 2015 2002 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Coupe 2D
Based on:
Mileage: 32600 Update
ZIP Code: 10547 Update
04-04-2015, 08:42 AM
#3
TECH Junkie
KBB is an excellent tool to have in the arsenal when buying and selling. But remember it is just another 'tool', not the bible of pricing. The fact that they increased your car's value is mainly due to the very low mileage you have on the car. It is a really nice 'plus' to have.
04-04-2015, 11:09 AM
#4
Oh I know all of this. I bought my car three years ago and checked the value then. I have checked it a couple of times since and it has gone down. It's just interesting to see it go up is all. I don't really care what either company says it's worth, which is why I recently got specified value insurance. At the end it has a worth to me and it's resale value is what I can squueze out of one you fellow yahoos if I try to sell it.
04-04-2015, 11:18 AM
#5
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I've owned mine for so long that it would have been a serious waste of time to monitor its "value" over the years, since it's a long decline from being a new-ish car to the point where value starts to rise again. In general I tend not to ever worry about what any car I own is worth unless I'm preparing to sell it, since they are either toys or daily drivers to me but not investments. Also, like you, I have agreed value insurance so "book" values would have no impact on what I would receive in the event of a total loss.
Having said all that, I guess this is good news for people who like to monitor this stuff.
Having said all that, I guess this is good news for people who like to monitor this stuff.
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04-07-2015, 09:41 PM
#9
I don't monitor KBB or NADA but I do watch the market and asking prices. I do believe on that basis that depreciation has bottomed out and prices are rising for nice, low mileage examples. Perhaps even for nice higher mileage examples.
The value of thrasher f-bodies continues and will continue to tank - and I'm afraid they're in the majority out there.
The value of thrasher f-bodies continues and will continue to tank - and I'm afraid they're in the majority out there.
04-08-2015, 07:50 PM
#12
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I think that would only apply to collector grade/low mile cars. Average, well worn 13+ year old daily drivers aren't really worth any more or less based on whether their OE brand is still in business or not.
06-27-2015, 05:56 AM
#15
Got another update this morning......
Your Kelley Blue Book® Values have changed
for the week of Jun 26, 2015 to Jul 01, 2015
Up 2% Increase in Value
since Apr 3, 2015
2002 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Coupe 2D
Based on:
Mileage: 32600 Update
ZIP Code: 10547 Update
Again, I set these up automatically by clicking on a little box three years ago when I bought the car. It took an extra second and I find it interesting. I know it doesn't necessarily mean anything. Then again...... for people like me who don't even drive their cars....
Your Kelley Blue Book® Values have changed
for the week of Jun 26, 2015 to Jul 01, 2015
Up 2% Increase in Value
since Apr 3, 2015
2002 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Coupe 2D
Based on:
Mileage: 32600 Update
ZIP Code: 10547 Update
Again, I set these up automatically by clicking on a little box three years ago when I bought the car. It took an extra second and I find it interesting. I know it doesn't necessarily mean anything. Then again...... for people like me who don't even drive their cars....
06-27-2015, 10:37 AM
#16
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06-27-2015, 10:49 PM
#17
TECH Enthusiast
Maybe KBB is finally figuring out what some of these cars actually sell for when the miles are <50K. The premiums they have typically assigned in the past tended to be too low. When valuing one of these cars I figure anywhere from +$700 to $1,000 premium for every 10K miles lower in the 10K to 70K mile range. Under 5K-7K miles needs another rule. In looking at a 2002 WS6 M6 with 32K miles in exc condition (private party sale) KBB suggests a price of $15,369. That seems about right to me. After years of being too low on low mileage Firebirds they are pretty much getting it right. For a 72,600 mile car they list it at $12,580 which I think is a bit too high. And for this same car with 12,600 miles a price of $16,618 seems too low, though not unreasonable.
KBB still has some flaws because they price an A4 and M6 the same. In the OP's case that should be a +$1K to $2K difference for the M6...or maybe KBB should lower the above prices by $1K to $2K for an Automatic. Prices for low mileage WS6's have indeed stayed approx the same or gone up in the past 3-4 years. They certainly haven't gone down any for cars with miles <35K miles. The Firebirds are typically $1K to $2K more than the Camaro's mainly because the Pontiac brand is gone. This premium has been pretty consistent for the past 3-4 years (WS6 approx $1.5K-$2K more than an SS in the 15K-35K mile range).
KBB lists a comparable 2002 Camaro SS M6 with 32K miles at a lowly $11,232. That's $4K less than the WS6 M6 price which is absurd. You can't find the Camaro for that price. And their 1999 SS M6 with 10K miles would be $8862 (about $4K under market). The mileage premiums for Camaro's are hosed up too. In dropping that 2002 SS M6 from 32K to 10K miles, KBB adds a premium of $800 for -22K miles. Their entire premium range from a 10K to 70K mile 2002 SS is $2500. Where can you buy 60K miles for such a cheap price ($418/each 10K miles)? Illogically, they give a higher premium of $447/ea 10K miles from 70K to 120K miles. They finally get back on track from 120K to 170K miles by having a premium of $277/ea 10K miles. So more work to do with KBB on F Body pricing, especially on the Chevy side.
KBB still has some flaws because they price an A4 and M6 the same. In the OP's case that should be a +$1K to $2K difference for the M6...or maybe KBB should lower the above prices by $1K to $2K for an Automatic. Prices for low mileage WS6's have indeed stayed approx the same or gone up in the past 3-4 years. They certainly haven't gone down any for cars with miles <35K miles. The Firebirds are typically $1K to $2K more than the Camaro's mainly because the Pontiac brand is gone. This premium has been pretty consistent for the past 3-4 years (WS6 approx $1.5K-$2K more than an SS in the 15K-35K mile range).
KBB lists a comparable 2002 Camaro SS M6 with 32K miles at a lowly $11,232. That's $4K less than the WS6 M6 price which is absurd. You can't find the Camaro for that price. And their 1999 SS M6 with 10K miles would be $8862 (about $4K under market). The mileage premiums for Camaro's are hosed up too. In dropping that 2002 SS M6 from 32K to 10K miles, KBB adds a premium of $800 for -22K miles. Their entire premium range from a 10K to 70K mile 2002 SS is $2500. Where can you buy 60K miles for such a cheap price ($418/each 10K miles)? Illogically, they give a higher premium of $447/ea 10K miles from 70K to 120K miles. They finally get back on track from 120K to 170K miles by having a premium of $277/ea 10K miles. So more work to do with KBB on F Body pricing, especially on the Chevy side.
Last edited by Firebrian; 06-27-2015 at 11:42 PM.
06-27-2015, 11:50 PM
#18
Good analysis. I agree especially with your comments re: M6 vs. A4 valuation. But I don't think the higher prices commanded by some Pontiacs are solely a reflection of Pontiac going away. I believe WS6's in particular exemplify what people are looking for in these cars, and the price difference reflects that. Formulas, for example, are pretty much at the bottom of the LS1 food chain along with Camaros.
I remember a time at the track a few years ago when I was running my Formula against my buddy's WS6. We ran nearly identical times; I beat him as often as he beat me. Back in the pits, a bunch of guys crowded around his car giving him high fives. My car was like the red headed step sister. In fact, the track photographer took some great shots of his car, one in particular of it raising the left front wheel. No pictures of mine were taken.
I remember a time at the track a few years ago when I was running my Formula against my buddy's WS6. We ran nearly identical times; I beat him as often as he beat me. Back in the pits, a bunch of guys crowded around his car giving him high fives. My car was like the red headed step sister. In fact, the track photographer took some great shots of his car, one in particular of it raising the left front wheel. No pictures of mine were taken.
06-28-2015, 04:45 AM
#19
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Good analysis. I agree especially with your comments re: M6 vs. A4 valuation. But I don't think the higher prices commanded by some Pontiacs are solely a reflection of Pontiac going away. I believe WS6's in particular exemplify what people are looking for in these cars, and the price difference reflects that. Formulas, for example, are pretty much at the bottom of the LS1 food chain along with Camaros.
I remember a time at the track a few years ago when I was running my Formula against my buddy's WS6. We ran nearly identical times; I beat him as often as he beat me. Back in the pits, a bunch of guys crowded around his car giving him high fives. My car was like the red headed step sister. In fact, the track photographer took some great shots of his car, one in particular of it raising the left front wheel. No pictures of mine were taken.
I remember a time at the track a few years ago when I was running my Formula against my buddy's WS6. We ran nearly identical times; I beat him as often as he beat me. Back in the pits, a bunch of guys crowded around his car giving him high fives. My car was like the red headed step sister. In fact, the track photographer took some great shots of his car, one in particular of it raising the left front wheel. No pictures of mine were taken.
Unfortunately, when it comes to classic muscle cars I tend to prefer the more expensive stuff, so my mindset is not always contrary to popular demand.
Speaking of classic muscle cars, the fact that highest value Chevelles and early Camaros still command higher prices, on average, than comparably top tier GTOs and Firebirds would be further indication that the loss of Pontiac has not caused the value of their most desirable models to surpass some other brands that are still available.
06-29-2015, 05:05 AM
#20
Last three posts are great, thanks guys. Firebrain, good insight indeed. And I agree with the last two guys that the higher prices demanded by the Pontiacs are really because of the looks of the car. Camaros are much more subdued. Take price away for a moment. Now but an SS next to a WS6 and lets say both cars are black. Same drivetrain, suspension, etc as we know. Ask 10 people which they would rather own and I bet at least 8 out of 10 would pick the TA. Hell, I get compliments on my car by people who then ask me what it is. One guy asked me if it was a Porsche, another said "what is this, like a 1960 something?" One guy, whos kid was staring at it was asked by kid what it was. The dad said it was a, a sports car. Got nothing to do with Pontiac no longer existing.