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Okay. Ive been into F-Body's since I graduated H.S. and I'm not posting this to rant but I guess its just time to be honest... ...my car is falling apart. Realistically its long been due, the car itself is 16 years old..thats coming of age of a teen graduating high school. Its been through hell aswell. My original intention was to buy it and fix it... but its becoming more fixing than driving at this point.
Here's whats happened and whats been replaced to date:
At purchase: A/C Compressor / EGR Valve - Dealership repaired.
June 2014: New Transmission Mount - $15 from Napa. - $75 to install it.
July 2014: Repair turn signals - Electric Flasher - $20 | Drill $100 (had to modify the lenses) LED's - $10
October: Alternator - $135
November: Steering Rack - $500 - which also led to additional damage due to the shop breaking the exciter wire on my alternator which costed another $500 in repairs.
February: Water Pump - $200 (Pump plus coolant) . All Idler Pulleys: $65, Gatorback Belts: $55 - First pump was defective, had to take it off and reinstall a new one.
March: New Radiator - $135, Alternator (again) $75 to upgrade as the one I installed October died, Power Steering Pump $375 (old one was leaking, went with Turn One), Braided Power Steering Lines: $160, Misc new hoses: $50, Transmission Cooler: $75
The parts above I purchased between March and April but I only installed them a week ago.
April: Transmission hose came apart on the freeway spewing my transmission fluid all over the place - $375 replace line, refill transmission... fortunately the transmission survived, no slipping, shifts like normal, no issues, until... ...I went to put gas in it yesterday and the second I began pumping it coughed fuel all over the place and wouldnt go down the nozzle... SES is on for P0440 which is an evap code and Im suspecting a bad charcoal cannister or fuel vent - which I cant find... Shop will charge $200 to repair if its the vent..
I love my car but I am growing more frustrated...and my car has 183k miles so the transmission and engine are a growing threat and if either one of those give up right now I'll be in big trouble.
Im really not sure what to do at this point. Most people who have FBody's seem to have second cars but I can't afford two cars right now as Im actually also still making payments on this car. Long story short, while college pays off, student loan debt is preventing me from buying anything close to modern due to my credit...even modern 4 bangers most banks want $500 monthly from me which I cant see happening. I dunno. Im just frustrated.
I would start by learning how to do more work myself, no reason in the world for a steering rack on these cars to cost even HALF that, stop letting shops screw **** up and make you pay for it, pick up a wrench yourself, you could have nearly bought an entry level 2 post lift for what you've paid in labor.
Personally, I really don't like working on my daily drivers myself unless it's a quick and easy project because something unexpected always comes up with more involved projects (especially if you're fighting rust/corrosion/etc.), and there isn't always time to deal with that hassle when you're counting on the car for transportation. Sometimes it's just easier to take it to a shop you trust, unless you have more available time than available money. And then there are some who just don't have the knowledge to start with, and also don't have time to learn on a car that they need to drive every day.
I think at 183k and 16 years old you'll have to expect some issues with any car, especially when it's used and you don't know the history. If the engine was well maintained, then you might get another 100k out of it, but the stock 4L60E is probably nearing the point of a rebuild with so many miles - unless they were all easy highway cruising and the fluid was regularly changed. This will be expensive, but you've already put so much into the car (which can't really be recovered if you sell) that it would be a huge loss (plus the risk of having frequent issues again) to start over with yet another old-ish, high mileage car.
If you can't afford a newer car or a really nice, low mileage older car that isn't "used up", your options are pretty limited. You're going to either have to repair or dump these higher mileage cars as they break, but once you start down the path of repairs then you're pretty much forced to continue since considerable money has now been spent on new parts.
If a 16yr old car is making you lose your mind, don't ever dabble in older vehicles. My toys are 27yrs old and 45yrs old, but I agree with Daniel that learning to do more on your vehicle will save you money as well as catching issues before they become a problem. It's all a part of the hobby.
I would start by learning how to do more work myself, no reason in the world for a steering rack on these cars to cost even HALF that, stop letting shops screw **** up and make you pay for it, pick up a wrench yourself, you could have nearly bought an entry level 2 post lift for what you've paid in labor.
The steering rack, transmission mount and transmission lines are the only things I brought my car into the shop to perform and the reason is because I don't have the space to do the work myself. We have a home owners association and they have already fined me $800 for leaving my car on ramps to work on it. The steering rack costed alittle more because I also had the tierod ends replaced while I was in there, I've never touched one before but I believe it just bolts and unbolts but even still would have to go to a shop for a front end alaignment. Transmission mount would have required more space than I have to work with. Finally the transmission lines were required to go to the shop because I only had 1 free tow and I wasn't sure if the transmission itself was shot. Plus I needed a new custom line.
Originally Posted by RPM WS6
Personally, I really don't like working on my daily drivers myself unless it's a quick and easy project because something unexpected always comes up with more involved projects (especially if you're fighting rust/corrosion/etc.), and there isn't always time to deal with that hassle when you're counting on the car for transportation. Sometimes it's just easier to take it to a shop you trust, unless you have more available time than available money. And then there are some who just don't have the knowledge to start with, and also don't have time to learn on a car that they need to drive every day.
I think at 183k and 16 years old you'll have to expect some issues with any car, especially when it's used and you don't know the history. If the engine was well maintained, then you might get another 100k out of it, but the stock 4L60E is probably nearing the point of a rebuild with so many miles - unless they were all easy highway cruising and the fluid was regularly changed. This will be expensive, but you've already put so much into the car (which can't really be recovered if you sell) that it would be a huge loss (plus the risk of having frequent issues again) to start over with yet another old-ish, high mileage car.
If you can't afford a newer car or a really nice, low mileage older car that isn't "used up", your options are pretty limited. You're going to either have to repair or dump these higher mileage cars as they break, but once you start down the path of repairs then you're pretty much forced to continue since considerable money has now been spent on new parts.
Yeah. That's pretty much my hiatus ... My car is a DD and I work 10 hour shifts and hardly ever have any time off. But I also still like my car as well. I could buy a newer Chevy Cruze but it won't be anywhere near as fun and I will also still have high monthly payments and will be way upside down. Its pretty set in stone that I have to pay my current car off before I can sneeze at the idea of buying a new anything.
Originally Posted by N20zuki
If a 16yr old car is making you lose your mind, don't ever dabble in older vehicles. My toys are 27yrs old and 45yrs old, but I agree with Daniel that learning to do more on your vehicle will save you money as well as catching issues before they become a problem. It's all a part of the hobby.
I really would like to learn to replace a lot more stuff but as stated before I don't have the time or space. My home owners association would sue me to hell if I tried anything serious in my driveway and my garage isn't large enough to Jack it up.
If a 16yr old car is making you lose your mind, don't ever dabble in older vehicles. My toys are 27yrs old and 45yrs old, but I agree with Daniel that learning to do more on your vehicle will save you money as well as catching issues before they become a problem. It's all a part of the hobby.
IMO, it becomes less of a hobby and more of a necessity when it's your only mode of transportation, and this seems to be the case for the OP. I'm currently involved in a complete brake system restoration on my '71, one of the few areas on this car that was still mostly original, and there is NO way that I'd be able to do this myself if I needed to drive the car every day. There have been some issues and surprises that would have made life impossible if this car was my sole transportation rather than a toy.
So while I agree that learning to do more yourself is a good thing, some projects just aren't practical in certain settings on a car that needs to be in daily service.
IMO, it becomes less of a hobby and more of a necessity when it's your only mode of transportation, and this seems to be the case for the OP. I'm currently involved in a complete brake system restoration on my '71, one of the few areas on this car that was still mostly original, and there is NO way that I'd be able to do this myself if I needed to drive the car every day. There have been some issues and surprises that would have made life impossible if this car was my sole transportation rather than a toy.
So while I agree that learning to do more yourself is a good thing, some projects just aren't practical in certain settings on a car that needs to be in daily service.
Oh I understand the daily driver thing hands down, when I was younger my project was my daily driver. I lived that struggle until I blew my motor in a old 87 Monte I had and I lived on a military base and caught hell for yanking the motor in the parking lot lol.
But my point about the age thing is it doesn't get any better in the long run, not about not having the means to complete the maintenance.
Put it away or sell and get a reliable daily driver until you can afford to get back into it. IMO trying to do anything other then simple maintenance on a dd is just asking for trouble.
(Totally serious here.) As much as I love my Firebird, I would get a lease on a Chevy Volt. If you compare the gas cost of a normal car to what you pay for the lease, it's almost like a free new car. (You don't get to keep the car after the lease is up, but it's very little hassle during a time where you don't need the hassle.
If you do this, the lease should be up about the time you are finishing school. You can then release the car and then using your signing bonus to buy a new Corvette. (Interesting - it looks like the Corvette will be a mid-engine LT1 by then.)
If your holding costs aren't too high, you can keep the Camaro as a side project for rainy days.
I also live in a town house with a one car garage, in my opinion get a beater and give the garage spot to the f-body and learn to work on stuff if you really want to keep the car. Everything you mentioned could of been done in your garage if you had another car. The picture below is my t/a up on 4 jack stands where I pulled the tranny, had it rebuilt then put it back in. It sat on stands for two weeks in my one car garage. It's not my daily but if you got some kind of a beater you could do the same thing.
Well... I got approved to get a 2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid for $265 a month and it will actually bring my insurance premium down because of the two car discount so I wont hurt there and I will only need $1k (one paycheck) to drive it off the lot. The issue is, they cannot and will not accept my car as trade due to the negative equity, meaning; I'll be responsible for two car payments as they refuse to put the negative equity ontop of the loan amount. In total, car payments and insurance I will be paying $880 per month just to own two vehicles, which is about 40% of my monthly net income. Im very tempted but Im also very hesitant, although I can handle the finances, one slip up on anything will sink my ship. The Camaro would just sit, I would no longer drive it, and I would have to pay for it, keep it insured full coverage aswell (or it gets repo'd) and keep a current tag and get emissions on it aswell (meaning I'll still have to fix the evap issue).. but on the flip side I will hopefully have a much more reliable (and efficient) vehicle and I have always wanted a hybrid anyway...although I personally dont need something as big as the Sonata.. I would be critical for about 1 year, meaning I couldnt make any mistakes or have anything go wrong or I will risk earning a repossession one car or the other (and on my credit that would be detrimental.)... Would you bite or pass?
Well... I got approved to get a 2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid for $265 a month and it will actually bring my insurance premium down because of the two car discount so I wont hurt there and I will only need $1k (one paycheck) to drive it off the lot. The issue is, they cannot and will not accept my car as trade due to the negative equity, meaning; I'll be responsible for two car payments as they refuse to put the negative equity ontop of the loan amount. In total, car payments and insurance I will be paying $880 per month just to own two vehicles, which is about 40% of my monthly net income. Im very tempted but Im also very hesitant, although I can handle the finances, one slip up on anything will sink my ship. The Camaro would just sit, I would no longer drive it, and I would have to pay for it, keep it insured full coverage aswell (or it gets repo'd) and keep a current tag and get emissions on it aswell (meaning I'll still have to fix the evap issue).. but on the flip side I will hopefully have a much more reliable (and efficient) vehicle and I have always wanted a hybrid anyway...although I personally dont need something as big as the Sonata.. I would be critical for about 1 year, meaning I couldnt make any mistakes or have anything go wrong or I will risk earning a repossession one car or the other (and on my credit that would be detrimental.)... Would you bite or pass?
Honestly, as much as I love my F-body, if I were ever in a super tight financial situation I'd drop down to 1 car again. I'll second the leasing option you can literally go lease a smart car for $99/month with like 1k down. I started leasing my Benz because I wanted something reliable that I don't have to work on to take me to and from work, my camaro is my 2nd car honestly it's had a lot more replaced than yours already. Even though you don't get to keep a leased car and I'll liken it to burning money, it is the most headache free car I've ever had. Do you have GAP insurance on your Camaro? That would cover you being upside down on payments.
The Camaro would just sit, I would no longer drive it, and I would have to pay for it, keep it insured full coverage aswell (or it gets repo'd)
You don't have to maintain full coverage, even with a loan, if the car isn't being driven. You can drop it down to comprehensive only, suspending collision and liability as the car will not me moving and thus you can't possibly be involved in an at-fault accident. Comprehensive will cover anything that could happen to the car in storage, but you do need to notify the bank of this and get approval. I used to do this all the time when I was younger and had loans on cars that I didn't intend to drive in the winter, the bank always gave approval. This would save you quite a bit.
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
and keep a current tag and get emissions on it aswell (meaning I'll still have to fix the evap issue)..
It might be cheaper to find an outdoor storage spot on a private lot somewhere so you can skip the plates (and emissions tests) until you plan to drive it again.
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
I would be critical for about 1 year, meaning I couldnt make any mistakes or have anything go wrong or I will risk earning a repossession one car or the other (and on my credit that would be detrimental.)... Would you bite or pass?
I would not do anything that would put me so close to the brink of disaster. Things can and do go wrong, I wouldn't want to live with such high risk of doom for 12 months.
It's probably going to be better to just sell the car and move on to a more reliable daily driver for now. You may have to pay down the loan for a bit longer to remove yourself from the negative equity situation. When things improve financially, you could always get another F-body, this time with much less miles and in better shape to start so you don't have so many repairs to deal with right out of the gate. That's probably what I would do in this situation.
I assumed you just had the repairs and not them plus the payment. That definitely makes things worse.
Can you get the cost of the Senata down by doing a lease?
I think at this point you need to find a way out of payments on your f-body. If you've been paying since the start of college and you're still paying, I'm guessing you got sort of a crappy APR and it just isn't worth it on a car that is > 13 years old. And if you're upside down on it, I'm guessing you have quite a ways to go as far as payments left are concerned.
Could your family help you out at all? Maybe a small loan from your parents/grandparents to at least get you out of the F-body and into something reliable to get you to and from work?
don't do 2 car payments as a college student - its just a real bad idea.
go find a cheap beater that you can run while doing repairs on your f body , I have had real good luck finding 3800 series 2 cars buick regals and Pontiac grand prixs for a grand or so with high miles but running well and the engines are bulletproof and trannys better than people say
I dunno where I put I was CURRENTLY a college student, I actually had a reliable vehicle that blew its motor right after I finished college in 2012. It had no issues until one day it just suddenly decided cough up oil all over the block and that was it.. I honestly am not sure what happened to that motor.
To recap in case I input misleading information (which I apologize for if I did)...I am working full time and I make a "decent" amount for a single person with little responsibilities. I have a pretty strong work ethic as Ive been working 2 jobs between November and January and am willing to do it again if necessary but the 1 full time job I have is a handful. Anyway I need to reiterate whats going on..
My car is a 1999 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 which I purchased last year in June and it was listed for about $7k. It had about 160kish miles back then..The issue though is this.. Back in 2008 when I started college, I had a repossession because I couldn't find full time work and that severely damaged my credit. By the time I finished college I racked up a combined $60,000 worth of student loans. That, combined with my (at the time) fairly low income and repossession, banks wouldnt even sneeze at loaning me for any car and if they did they wanted every dime I made because the interest rate and I didnt want to get screwed over. I was making enough money only to support myself and my family (and that doesnt mean wife and kids, that means siblings, mother and father) and not a dime more condemning me so eventually a friend literally "gave" me $3,000 which was unbelievable and told me to buy a car. I tried going to several dealers but through the banks I could not get approved for anything at the time, even with $3k down my credit was just too poor or if I did get approved the payments were outrageous. Eventually I bit the bullet and decided to cosign with my mother, I was REALLY trying to avoid this because I cant trust her (or anyone in my family) with anything financial. Right before writing my will away to that deal I drove by my current car at a dealer and it caught my eye because it was bright orange. the terms of financing it with the $3k down were excellent at the time because the payments were low and he in-house financed and after making a few payments he was to sell my account to a bank so I could rebuild my credit through the deal. The payments and insurance on my car alone (without my repairs) are perfect for me...Although yea I would have preferred to have paid cash, I couldnt at the time and given my options it really was the best deal I had available... the issue is, since he in-house finances he has to make up for it on his end turning a $7k car to nearly $14k... I intended to use that to my benefit by paying it down as quickly as possible to help my credit though so I wasn't too particularly worried about that at first..but what I did become worried about was the car deteriorating before I could pay it off (which is what is seemingly occurring now).. Up until recently I've been paying anywhere betwee $500 and $700 a month on the note and my bill is only $380 - but Im not "dedicated" to paying that so if something goes wrong I wont lose my car as a consequence..Ive paid the $14k loan down to about $5k in about 6 months and I could have the whole thing paid off by July IF I didnt have to invest in keeping it running every other week..Between the last two months I have only had my car up and running for a combined week and what scares me the most is the car completely shutting me down before its paid off which will REALLY put me in deep water. Thats...basically the gist of why Im looking for options.
As far as leasing, Im open to it and I have never done this before.. but Im also alittle concerned because I have heard that leasing has mileage restrictions and soon I will have to commute about 50 miles one way to work (moving to another home)...I'm also inadvertently worried that the Camaro wont be up to that kind of commute. Ive already used AAA on it twice within the last 2 months. I actually had it towed to a dealer and tried to get rid of it on the spot but they wanted $600 a month from me and I just cant justify it...
I dunno. I apologize if I seem rude in anyway I'm just a bit frustrated with this situation.
soon I will have to commute about 50 miles one way to work
A lease would probably get really expensive. This is probably also not the type of thing to use a 160K mile, 15 year old car for, either. (Unless you maintain it yourself and can keep it running like new.)
A lease would probably get really expensive. This is probably also not the type of thing to use a 160K mile, 15 year old car for, either. (Unless you maintain it yourself and can keep it running like new.)
jeez 50 miles? I'd be apartment hunting at that point. I thought my 11 mile commute in Cali traffic was bad.
04-11-2015, 01:23 AM
What would you do? 
