RockinWs6

I know I'm going to regret posting more but here goes................I've gone roundy round with 6 LS1 cars I've owned with the same BS. Enough said, I found my solution. The engines suffer from poorly made lifters and leaking oil pickup tube o rings AND poor maintenance. These engines FOUL the oil so badly from the PISTON-RING design that the oil is full of crap constantly. This totally effs with the already crapo lifters AND ruins the o -ring. These 3 things together will drive you nuts with all kinds of BS noises.

You don't have to drain a drop out to try what I mentioned. In fact I run 7 qts in mine. The TransX treats the o ring so it swells up and seals, the Synthetic lucas helps keep the lifters from bleeding down so fast.

For less than 20 bucks you will either be happy OR you will know you have major trouble....WHICH I SERIOUSLY DOUBT unless you keep running like this. You are going to wipe the cam-lifters out. All that knocking and clattering is the lifters whacking the cam shaft!

Now I'm not shitting you I'm done trying to help you. Good Luck


GM should be ashamed starting all this PISTON SLAP BS, biggest bunch of crap to ever come out of GM. The TRUTH is the O-RING design on the pickup tube is the culprit in most ALL stock engine noise and ruined engines. That and the windshield cowl leaking water on top of the engine, water leaking past the intake gaskets breaking the starters off and breaking rods-blocks etc............ If piston's made noise like this they wouldn't last 100 miles...........geez I hate posting about this over and over.........

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I haven't had this issue with any of the four I've owned, not at low or high mileage.

I think piston slap is a far more common issue, and usually *is* the explanation for many. My '02 had this for all ~110k miles it had when I sold it, the noise never got any better or worse and followed a weather/engine temp pattern that could be counted on like clockwork. The engine sounded like a diesel under certain conditions, and was silent under others. No damage was done from this noise, no premature engine failure, no problems at all....other than the sound.

But again, I agree that piston slap likely isn't the case for the OP if the noise just suddenly popped up one day after never having been there before. Piston slap doesn't just appear like that on a seasoned engine, so further investigation is needed for this particular case. I can't agree with the concept that the vast majority of stock LS1 noises are due to issues with pickup tube O-rings though, this just hasn't been my personal experience or anything I've seen regularly with the various other local LS1 engines with which I've been familiar. I'm sure this has been an issue for some, including yourself, but piston slap is a far more common problem/reason for noise IMO.

Firebrian

I'm curious about what you're doing with your own cars. Maybe there's something here that I should be doing with mine? Why exactly do you run the 7 quarts? Does that keep the pickup tube O-ring covered? Will 7 qts cause crank windage/oil foaming? And I assume you run the TransX and Lucas synthetic all the time?

I had been changing by Mobil 1 every 6 months, which worked out to be 1500 miles max. This past year I went 12 months figuring the oil still had to be decent with only 2500 miles. Based on your post I'm not so sure now. Oil changes are cheap - $40 and an hour of my time isn't much, even if done 2X per year. I realize the only way to truly know what's in your oil and how long it lasts is to send it in for analysis.

Fwiw, my engine makes no noises. I've owned one other LS-1 and it didn't have any noises either for 115K miles. Out of the other 3 cars I test drove before I bought my most recent car, only 1 of them had piston slap...and it was real obvious and pretty loud. It went away after a few minutes (1 of 5 cars with "slap.").

RockinWs6

Piston slap is the biggest bunch of BS ever dreamed up! It is and will continue to be the UNEDUCATED evaluation of engine noise to SHUT the consumer up. ALL engines have piston noise, ALL! It normal noise that occurs at start up until the pistons grow from heat and expand.

BUT ITS NOT THE NOISE YOU GUYS THINK IT IS! its barely audible, If you have piston noise loud enough to be heard as a knocking noise you have SERIOUS ENGINE damage that will fail quickly.

MOST ALL LS series engine noise is cause by the lifters, o ring and oil gallery design.....that's it. I don't care what you believe BUT if you want it quiet try what I posted. I've heard these noises for the past 16 years in EVERY LS car I've owned. I spent WAY TOO TIME going to dealers and listening to their BS.

My present WS6 with 38k on it sounded EXACTLY LIKE THE video in this thread. Now I'm a educated man with many many years of engineering experience and I also worked as a service manager back in the 70's. So I'm not easily BSd . I bought this WS6 with 38k and it was perfectly quiet UNTIL I changed the oil!. I knew instantly the dealer had dumped something into the oil to make it quiet. I took it back to the dealer making terrible noise and they said PISTON SLAP completely normal.

Took it to another dealer and they carefully checked it out and blamed it on piston slap.................


Took it to a 3rd dealer and I got an honest answer. Verdict :leaking o ring causing lifter noise!





I added 3 ozs of TransX and 1/2 qt lucas Synthetic treatment and after aproxx 100 miles it was completely quiet and has been for a very long time.


Now I know I should have the o ring replaced, the car is 16 years old. BUT I DON'T HAVE PISTON SLAP AND NEVER DID!

And neither do ANY OF YOU! Think what you want but I've been listening to this BS for over 16 years. NO ADDITIVE could hide a loose piston!

RockinWs6

Rule of thumb with engine oil at least in our cars when it looks dirty or smells like fuel with the engine fully warmed up and you need to start adding oil its time to change it out, IF YOU WANT LONG QUIET ENGINE LIFE. With all my LS cars @ 4-5k the oil was ready for changing.

I run 7 qts because 1 time I was horsing around on a windy road and heard ROD NOISE LOUDLY coming out of a hard turn with low oil pressure. So I run 6-7 qts, and keep in that range.

The o ring trouble is caused by the contaminates in the engine oil from combustion. O - RINGS were never designed to encounter such conditions, at least the factory stock o ring wasn't . The updated BLUE O RING is a better choice but NO O rings should be used in a street car daily driver situation. They will always fail under such harsh conditions.

As far as the piston slap :I'm sorry but you heard lifter noise until they bleed out, takes a few mins on a cold start.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

If this were true, then my '02 LS1 wouldn't have made that noise under consistent and specifically repeatable conditions for literally 10s of thousands of miles without ever getting any better or worse and without ever failing. That car saw many runs to redline, lots of mileage and operation in conditions ranging from sub 0°F to 90°F+ over the course of many years and miles; no metal in the oil, no loss of power, no failure of any internal engine components.

RockinWs6

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm saying its not the noise in the video AND most other noises blamed on "PISTON SLAP" The truth of the matter is normal PISTON NOISE and real piston slap are 2 different things.

If a piston is loose enough to KNOCK its not normal piston noise. This is the "PISTON SLAP" noise GM tries to blame EVERYTHING ON. I had ONE LS car with REAL PISTON SLAP, number 7 KNOCKED, oiled down the cylinder then finally broke into pieces and ended in the exhaust. That piston KNOCKED not SLAPPED, a constant knock cold or hot.

Normal "PISTON NOISE IS ALL ENGINES" is a light rocking sound at cold start that last less that a few mins and is barely audible.

Now ROLLER LIFTERS what you are all hearing knock like in this video the OP posted. They clack and knock and it changes and goes back and forth. Rev it and get the cam spinning and oil moving through the lifters and it sound a little better but doesn't go away.

I went through this 6 times...............I know what I'm talking about.

If the OP had that noise from loose pistons like this his spark plugs would be soaked in oil. I know that I'm talking about trust me.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I cannot give any certain diagnosis on the OP's condition based on the videos posted; the sound quality isn't good enough and the noise doesn't even sound the same in every video. I don't think anyone here can guaranty a definite problem OR solution for this without hearing it in person. I'm not claiming that HIS noise is piston slap, it's too hard to tell via the internet and it seems to be a new condition for him which is more concerning than basic piston slap that has always existed with a seasoned engine.

This is NOT what my '02 LS1 had at all. I've owned many engines, 4-8 cylinder, 134ci to 500ci, modern and ancient - none of them made noise like my '02 LS1 (not even the three other LS1 engines I own/owned.) This car sounded like a diesel under certain conditions (never immediately after a cold start but rather several seconds of run time, it would never completely go away at idle unless outside temps were above 70°F, though it would get progressively quieter until disappearing entirely above 70°F ambient temps, and it would occur even in hot weather for a short period during warm-up or after a warm re-start.) It always occurred under these same conditions for all the years and 10s of thousands of miles I owned it. It never got better or worse, sounded the same with oil types from 5w30 to 0w40, caused no issues with power, and the engine never failed.

On the other hand, no other vehicle I have ever owned has done anything like this. Not my various old Gen I SBCs or SBOs, or Mopar 318ci, not either of my 3.8L V6s, not my 2.2 or 2.4L 4-cylinders, not my 500ci Cadillac V8, and not even my other LS1s were this bad - so this was not any type of general engine noise that occurs with any/every engine. I've heard other local LS1s that were just as bad as my '02 was (interestingly they were all '01-'02 models), and none of those owners had a premature failure either.

My sound definitely went away, completely in fact, as soon as ambient temps were hot enough. It was not lifter noise, as by your own definition the noise never would have gone away then. If there was something drastically wrong/failing inside the engine, then the engine would've been toast in short order - but instead the engine remained strong, used very little oil (never left a drop of oil on the plugs) and made great oil pressure well past 100k miles - all while slapping under the same conditions, and to the same severity, the entire time.

Whatever issues you've had with your LS1s, this is not necessarily the case for everyone. I don't claim to know what the OP's issue is because I don't feel the video quality is adequate enough to make a solid diagnosis. But I am quite sure that some of the things you have generalized for other noticeably noisy LS1s are simply not always the case.

Again, I too have been through the noisy LS1 program, and nothing bad ever happened with that engine, not after years and years and 10s of thousands of miles.

Firebrian

An interesting discussion on this topic. Thanks to all contributors. F bodies certainly have their quirks. Now to see if the OP's engine noise quiets down or goes away.

RockinWs6

RPM I was in your boat at one time believing the "PPISTON SLAP" noise but after 6 cars doing the same completely quiet after proper diagnoses.............I have nothing more to say on this.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

All I can tell you is....

....if this were the case for ALL slapping/diesel-like examples of LS1s, including my own, then I don't see how it could have never led to an internal failure or at least gotten worse over the years. It doesn't make sense that such a noise could be the result of a serious internal problem for ~110k miles and yet the engine still ran perfect and gave zero indications of an issue (no excessive oil loss, no low oil pressure, no power loss, etc.)

Point being, piston slap is not *always* a "BS" reason for the noise, and you will find many other Gen III SBC owners who have had experiences just like mine (noise for 10s of thousands of miles, even since brand new, but never any issues other than sound.) I certainly agree that not all of these noises can be instantly dismissed as piston slap, but it's equally true that not all are the result of lifter or O-ring issues causing poor oiling/excessive wear and eventual engine failure.

RockinWs6

My present WS6 was noisy for over 75k miles with "PISTON SLAP" sounded EXACTLY like the OP's video. Its quiet as a mouse now..........stock engine can take quite a bit of abuse to the cam-lifters before they fail.

I would have to hear yours to give a honest opinion but I've only ever heard 2 LS1 engines that had real piston slap and it doesn't go away hot. Plus you can pin point which cylinders, not like this where its noisy all over the engine.

As an example my 99 TA had this noise PLUS REAL PISTON SLAP. After I stopped the start up clattering etc the PISTON SLAP was still there, It was number 7 cylinder and it knocked loudly cold and hot. It constantly oiled down the spark plug, not enough to foul it but you could see oil on it. One day the piston went bye bye .

I've visited many different dealerships, the last dealership I had look ay my WS6 had the TOP GM tech in a state wide area. He swore up and down I had piston slap. It was so loud knocking clattering it was uncomfortable to keep running. This same engine is completely quiet now.............there's just no more I can say.

I went through this same bs with every ls car I owned. The last 3 I knew what was up and solved it quickly. This last WS6 I kinda dropped the ball because Its my wifes daily driver and was letting the dealer take care of it(GM WARRANTY). When I finally put the TransX in and 100 miles later it was completely quiet I was EXTREMELY pissed I let it go that long, I don't go to GM dealers for service for this very reason.


This O RING design is the cause of so much trouble its just beyond reason. They should redesign it but they won't because it generates HUGE dealer profits. Car gets 3-4 years down the road and the troubles start. Its a DEALER BS BUFFET. Good luck

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

At this point, we will have to agree to disagree.

I certainly don't claim to know what happened with any of yours, I wasn't there and they weren't my engines. But in the case of my '02 LS1, and many others with matching descriptions, the condition can't be automatically and always diagnosed as O-ring and/or lifter issues.

Piston slap is an actual condition and it doesn't always (or even often, in the case of engines prone to it) result in cylinder failure, it can in fact just be noise. Yours obviously was different as #7 had somehow become injured at some point.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

You lost all credibility there. Exactly right there.

madmike9396

iTrader: (29)

Just drive it.

z-maro

iTrader: (18)

Could you elaborate on which portion you are referring to? is there something else you would recommend? I have been looking into other chemicals such as Rislone, ACDelco Lubricity Additive (992961), ACDelco Engine Oil Supplement (992869), Marvel Mystery Oil, Tufoil, ect. just because I am pretty hesitant to put "snake oil" in the engine.

I'll probably try some oil additive then do just that. If the noise continues or gets worse I might bring it in somewhere for some diagnosis or tear into it this winter. If I could verify it was coming from the top end I wouldn't mind too much doing a whole new top end (heads, cam, lifters, PR's, springs...) but it would be sad to do all that then have the bottom end go.

RockinWs6

z-camaro you will waste a lot of time and money on nothing chasing this when you could be enjoying your car. Good Luck in what ever you do.

I didn't spell your name wrong the site corrects it.

RockinWs6

This is the same dood that didn't understand why starters break off the block because the housing fails.

Trust me I'm not blowing smoke on this subject. You can either learn from my 16 years of experience of owning these cars or learn yourself. Just trying to save you a lot bs, but most people need to learn the hard way. I know plenty of good shops willing to take you money to do what you don't need.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Keep in mind that there are others here also with 16+ years of multi-vehicle LS1 experience who have not seen the issue you describe, therefore your one-size-fits-all diagnosis for all LS1 engine noise simply isn't a guaranty.

RockinWs6

I do but after owning 6 of these cars they ALL had the same issues. But they were all stockers. I heard the OP's noise for 16 years, I know what it is.
}If you own a modded car your problems will be different. I'm just telling this last WS6 took the cake..............they had me believing it, but I don't believe there is such a thing. MAYBE the very rare case, lets let it be. Thanks