What Would You Do ?
10-11-2017, 04:09 PM
#1
What Would You Do ? I need opinions , what do you think is right or wrong in this situation?
Two years ago a Speed Shop sold me a short block , installed my heads off old engine , changed cam, springs , ...
This car is just a weekend car .. a year later with 6,000 miles , I’m at a stop light , got cyclinder miss fire and a loud tick .. oil pressure was good ... turns out, the shop used beehive 918 valve springs on a Comp Cam pt# 54-458-11 and a valve spring broke .
Frustrated I let the car sit almost another year in garage and just finally got it fixed by another shop ..
Heres my question. I’m asking for some compensation being they installed the wrong springs .
Right or wrong ? Owner is arguing those were the correct springs to use .. and says he will give me a box of new springs lol .
Two years ago a Speed Shop sold me a short block , installed my heads off old engine , changed cam, springs , ...
This car is just a weekend car .. a year later with 6,000 miles , I’m at a stop light , got cyclinder miss fire and a loud tick .. oil pressure was good ... turns out, the shop used beehive 918 valve springs on a Comp Cam pt# 54-458-11 and a valve spring broke .
Frustrated I let the car sit almost another year in garage and just finally got it fixed by another shop ..
Heres my question. I’m asking for some compensation being they installed the wrong springs .
Right or wrong ? Owner is arguing those were the correct springs to use .. and says he will give me a box of new springs lol .
10-11-2017, 07:54 PM
#3
TECH Resident
Be glad you didn't drop a valve.. comp has a history with those springs failing..They won't address it just like the rocker trunion issue they have. Big companies don't have a "give a ****" anymore.
10-11-2017, 07:58 PM
#4
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You say that he used the "wrong springs"....does that mean that you paid for a different set, and have an invoice for something other than 26918s? Otherwise, what makes them "wrong"? Do they not meet the specs of the cam? And did you commission them to install a matching package or simply provide them with parts that you wanted installed?
Lots of things to consider here.
Lots of things to consider here.
10-11-2017, 08:14 PM
#6
You say that he used the "wrong springs"....does that mean that you paid for a different set, and have an invoice for something other than 26918s? Otherwise, what makes them "wrong"? Do they not meet the specs of the cam? And did you commission them to install a matching package or simply provide them with parts that you wanted installed?
Lots of things to consider here.
Lots of things to consider here.
10-11-2017, 08:22 PM
#7
From mechanic email ..
“ The camshaft is a 54-458-11. The catalog doesn’t even recommend beehive springs with that cam. Duals only. The lift is high enough that there is very little room for error. Lift was .614/.621. There just isn’t enough room left to be safe.”
N/A means don’t use them “above inserts “
“ The camshaft is a 54-458-11. The catalog doesn’t even recommend beehive springs with that cam. Duals only. The lift is high enough that there is very little room for error. Lift was .614/.621. There just isn’t enough room left to be safe.”
N/A means don’t use them “above inserts “
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10-12-2017, 12:29 PM
#8
I tend to agree with mechanic #2's opinion in his email. But Comp specifies their 918 beehives are good up to .625 lift, if the spring really did actually fail due to your cams .614 or .621 lift, that's more on Comps fault for their spring not being adequate for the lift specified. If mechanic #1 is offering any compensation at all, you should be thankful and accept it. Take the new set of 918 springs and turn around and sell them for whatever you can get. Be thankful mechanic #1 doesn't just simply say something in the likes of, "Comps fault, not mine, so **** off."
10-12-2017, 05:07 PM
#9
If the spring wouldn't have broken, would we be here?
Point is the combo worked fine until the spring broke, and the spring was rated to work with that cam. So it's not really the installers fault. It's the spring's fault/manufacturer.
I think it would have been nice if the installer advised you to go dual springs with that lift, but maybe at the time the springs didn't have a known issue. I'd let the situation go and chalk it up to racecar, and count my blessings all it needed was another spring and not a new short block and head.
Point is the combo worked fine until the spring broke, and the spring was rated to work with that cam. So it's not really the installers fault. It's the spring's fault/manufacturer.
I think it would have been nice if the installer advised you to go dual springs with that lift, but maybe at the time the springs didn't have a known issue. I'd let the situation go and chalk it up to racecar, and count my blessings all it needed was another spring and not a new short block and head.
10-12-2017, 08:11 PM
#10
If the spring wouldn't have broken, would we be here?
Point is the combo worked fine until the spring broke, and the spring was rated to work with that cam. So it's not really the installers fault. It's the spring's fault/manufacturer.
I think it would have been nice if the installer advised you to go dual springs with that lift, but maybe at the time the springs didn't have a known issue. I'd let the situation go and chalk it up to racecar, and count my blessings all it needed was another spring and not a new short block and head.
Point is the combo worked fine until the spring broke, and the spring was rated to work with that cam. So it's not really the installers fault. It's the spring's fault/manufacturer.
I think it would have been nice if the installer advised you to go dual springs with that lift, but maybe at the time the springs didn't have a known issue. I'd let the situation go and chalk it up to racecar, and count my blessings all it needed was another spring and not a new short block and head.
10-12-2017, 09:04 PM
#11
Didn't see where it says it requires dual springs. My mistake.
And earlier I was typing more than paying attention. Someone said those springs are good to 625, I always thought they were a 600 spring.
I know generally over 600 people go to duals.
I would call the shop and ask for help, they may have read that 625 spec and thought they were good. If they were a shitty shop I'm sure you'd have more problems. Sounds like they are inexperienced, but now they won't be...
They are for sure on the hook if it says requires dual springs.
And earlier I was typing more than paying attention. Someone said those springs are good to 625, I always thought they were a 600 spring.
I know generally over 600 people go to duals.
I would call the shop and ask for help, they may have read that 625 spec and thought they were good. If they were a shitty shop I'm sure you'd have more problems. Sounds like they are inexperienced, but now they won't be...
They are for sure on the hook if it says requires dual springs.
Last edited by 00pooterSS; 10-12-2017 at 09:09 PM.
10-12-2017, 09:42 PM
#12
Didn't see where it says it requires dual springs. My mistake.
And earlier I was typing more than paying attention. Someone said those springs are good to 625, I always thought they were a 600 spring.
I know generally over 600 people go to duals.
I would call the shop and ask for help, they may have read that 625 spec and thought they were good. If they were a shitty shop I'm sure you'd have more problems. Sounds like they are inexperienced, but now they won't be...
They are for sure on the hook if it says requires dual springs.
And earlier I was typing more than paying attention. Someone said those springs are good to 625, I always thought they were a 600 spring.
I know generally over 600 people go to duals.
I would call the shop and ask for help, they may have read that 625 spec and thought they were good. If they were a shitty shop I'm sure you'd have more problems. Sounds like they are inexperienced, but now they won't be...
They are for sure on the hook if it says requires dual springs.
10-12-2017, 09:57 PM
#13
If the spring wouldn't have broken, would we be here?
Point is the combo worked fine until the spring broke, and the spring was rated to work with that cam. So it's not really the installers fault. It's the spring's fault/manufacturer.
I think it would have been nice if the installer advised you to go dual springs with that lift, but maybe at the time the springs didn't have a known issue. I'd let the situation go and chalk it up to racecar, and count my blessings all it needed was another spring and not a new short block and head.
Point is the combo worked fine until the spring broke, and the spring was rated to work with that cam. So it's not really the installers fault. It's the spring's fault/manufacturer.
I think it would have been nice if the installer advised you to go dual springs with that lift, but maybe at the time the springs didn't have a known issue. I'd let the situation go and chalk it up to racecar, and count my blessings all it needed was another spring and not a new short block and head.
Edit:
When I posted the most recent replies were not here yet. If Comp specifically says they must use a dual spring, then you could maybe argue that they were negligent. However, the 918 springs say they will work up to .625, they may have been trying to save you a buck by seeing that, according to Comps specs, they should have been fine.
10-12-2017, 10:56 PM
#14
People always make this mistake...I hear it here all the time even in this thread.
There is a lot more to spring recommendations than just lift alone, You also have to consider how aggressive the lobe is and RPM the cam is designed to run among other factors like valve weight and so on.
If comp recommended a certain spring with the cam then that's what should have been used or an equivalent spring as in it called for dual use a dual with similar specs.
There is a lot more to spring recommendations than just lift alone, You also have to consider how aggressive the lobe is and RPM the cam is designed to run among other factors like valve weight and so on.
If comp recommended a certain spring with the cam then that's what should have been used or an equivalent spring as in it called for dual use a dual with similar specs.
10-13-2017, 01:24 AM
#15
People always make this mistake...I hear it here all the time even in this thread.
There is a lot more to spring recommendations than just lift alone, You also have to consider how aggressive the lobe is and RPM the cam is designed to run among other factors like valve weight and so on.
If comp recommended a certain spring with the cam then that's what should have been used or an equivalent spring as in it called for dual use a dual with similar specs.
There is a lot more to spring recommendations than just lift alone, You also have to consider how aggressive the lobe is and RPM the cam is designed to run among other factors like valve weight and so on.
If comp recommended a certain spring with the cam then that's what should have been used or an equivalent spring as in it called for dual use a dual with similar specs.
Shop is located in Tempe AZ ....
10-13-2017, 02:51 PM
#16
10-15-2017, 08:03 PM
#18
one more reason why people are very quickly straying away from comp. hence the new rocker grunion upgrade that I'm pretty sure only comp had for awhile. then they started failing and other companies improved the design and sold their own. this statement may be inaccurate, but i feel like 4 years ago when i got my vrx5 cam from vengeance racing, it was a comp grind and pretty sure comp was very common then. now, i feel like cam motion is beginning to rise up. pretty sure I'm a lil inaccurate but not too far from the truth.