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Old 05-11-2018, 12:48 PM
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Alright LS1Tech family, I've been pretty quiet the last 2 years due to work and focusing way too much on my Jeep. Anyways I live in the south east michigan area and it's time to show the Camaro some love and I would like some help choosing a direction for power. The car as it sits:
  • totally stock 1999 ls1 with 140k miles leaks oil a bit from almost every gasket
  • t56 with a level 2 rebuild and monster level 2 clutch, upgraded hydraulics blah blah
  • Midwest chassis FAB9 with a chinese truetrac (maybe good for 600whp)
  • UMI coilovers, sways, more blah
more details in the build thread in my sig

The budget: $7000 but I won't be doing any of this myself because I'm lazy/busy/taking the easy way out/living in an apartment for the next 11 months this time so subtract $2000 right off the bat and the budget is $5000

Goals: it's mostly a street car, occasional auto-x and maybe it'll see a drag strip, but most importantly I'd like something I can drive for 10 hours on the highway if I want. The car is by no means perfect, but it's the one I'm sticking with. So how would you spend my budget? Cheap engine swap? Rebuild the ls1? Heads + cam and be done? Or is my budget too small?

Picture of said vehicle:


Last edited by blackandgold; 05-11-2018 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:21 PM
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Is the motor in good running condition? Plenty of good shops here in MI if you're looking
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:56 PM
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We would love to help you with this project!

You can reach me though email at [email protected], or shoot me a PM here and we can go over the various paths possible.
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Old 05-13-2018, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HCI2000SS View Post
Is the motor in good running condition? Plenty of good shops here in MI if you're looking
Runs fine, just needs a few new gaskets and 140 of the 145k miles on it were not from me so I'm a little hesitant to throw a ton of stuff at the motor. But that's why I'm interested in hearing opinions. I'll at least be reaching out to Livernois.

Originally Posted by LivernoisMotorsports View Post
We would love to help you with this project!

You can reach me though email at [email protected], or shoot me a PM here and we can go over the various paths possible.
Email sent!
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:20 PM
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ls2 swap, good power bump but still streetable, but also more cubes should your plans change you have a stronger platform at the start.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by blackbyrd View Post
ls2 swap, good power bump but still streetable, but also more cubes should your plans change you have a stronger platform at the start.
I agree. I love my LS2 in my camaro.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by blackbyrd View Post
ls2 swap, good power bump but still streetable, but also more cubes should your plans change you have a stronger platform at the start.
Originally Posted by Tuskyz28 View Post
I agree. I love my LS2 in my camaro.
It's interesting to see both of you say that, I sold a watch to justify bumping my budget up a fair bit (11k-ish) so I've been eyeballing an LS2 stroker. I'm currently working with a few shops in the area so it'll be interesting to see what they come up with. Also visiting Livernois tomorrow (hopefully I can take some pics of the shop), but they do have some negative reviews floating around primarily around post purchase support and their tuning methods. Lingenfelter is still probably outside of my budget.
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:37 AM
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That car is begging for boost, but you won't get there if you're paying a shop to install it.
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ddnspider View Post
That car is begging for boost, but you won't get there if you're paying a shop to install it.
It's an unfortunate limitation, but I'm not committed to doing an engine swap in the driveway of my apartment. That being said I hope that in a couple of years I'll start down the slippery slope of some extra air pressure. Am I leaving too much power on the table by running around 9.7:1 compression without boost?
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:31 AM
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I would do a setup like mine in my sig and drive the **** out of it. 450+ rwhp will get ya moving real good and you will have plenty of money left over to have a paint correction done and have your car ceramic coated
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by blackandgold View Post
It's an unfortunate limitation, but I'm not committed to doing an engine swap in the driveway of my apartment. That being said I hope that in a couple of years I'll start down the slippery slope of some extra air pressure. Am I leaving too much power on the table by running around 9.7:1 compression without boost?
You don't need to do a motor swap to go boosted. Most turbo kit's require swapping a K-member, but a supercharger wouldn't require a new K member and can be a bolt on deal.
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:43 AM
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well given your budget I originally thought iron block stroker, but since you want auto cross potential id avoid adding the extra weight to the nose (thats the boat im in with my setup) sure you can make up for it but why bother if you dont have to? Ive debated dropping an ls3 in mine and putting the 414 in the Camaro, I came close to suggesting that but its a bit outside your suggested budget. I think you will be happy going LS2 and going lower compression is an odd trade on a NA setup. if you plan on boost yeah you are leaving something on the table, but if you need to do it in phases its more than fine, just know what to expect. It may feel sluggish compared to a higher compression but with a proper cam could yeild some great low end torque for a daily type car. thing to conisder though is what amount of boost you will run, you may not have to dip to low on the compression and end up with a setup that can do both pretty well.

im not particularly a fan of Livernois tuning process, but since your close to them your mileage may very. Good Luck!
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ddnspider View Post
You don't need to do a motor swap to go boosted. Most turbo kit's require swapping a K-member, but a supercharger wouldn't require a new K member and can be a bolt on deal.
Have to? No absolutely not, I could slap a procharger on my leaking 145k mile ls1 and probably drive it till at least 200k, but I wouldn't hate to get a forged short block that I know the history of in the car.

Originally Posted by blackbyrd View Post
well given your budget I originally thought iron block stroker, but since you want auto cross potential id avoid adding the extra weight to the nose (thats the boat im in with my setup) sure you can make up for it but why bother if you dont have to? Ive debated dropping an ls3 in mine and putting the 414 in the Camaro, I came close to suggesting that but its a bit outside your suggested budget. I think you will be happy going LS2 and going lower compression is an odd trade on a NA setup. if you plan on boost yeah you are leaving something on the table, but if you need to do it in phases its more than fine, just know what to expect. It may feel sluggish compared to a higher compression but with a proper cam could yeild some great low end torque for a daily type car. thing to conisder though is what amount of boost you will run, you may not have to dip to low on the compression and end up with a setup that can do both pretty well.

im not particularly a fan of Livernois tuning process, but since your close to them your mileage may very. Good Luck!
That's a good point, I might not have to go down to a 9.7:1 compression. Aside from the difference in cubes am I missing out on anything with a stroked ls2 vs stroked ls3?
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by blackandgold View Post
Have to? No absolutely not, I could slap a procharger on my leaking 145k mile ls1 and probably drive it till at least 200k, but I wouldn't hate to get a forged short block that I know the history of in the car.
.....
Sure, just won't make the same power and you only have so much budget. Bang for the buck, boost is tough to beat.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:49 PM
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out of the box the only thing I would site is the intake on a ls3 can pull great numbers but you could likely swap to rectangle portheads with the ls2 depending. Unless you have a specific power goal.....no not really.Swap wise neither is easier then the other as they both run a differnet relucter wheel than the ls1. I do think the ls2 can be run off the ls1 ecm with a few harness tweaks tough..If you are paying a shop for the work though neither of those matter.

so short answer other than the further potential of the ls3 cubes and top end options that are transferable ( i run l92 heads on my 414) id be content with the ls2. esecially after drivig one as a daily and had a c6 ls2 for a bit. On that lighter chassis you will notice that torque down low and will be astonished especially with the stroker. my 414 still scares the **** outta me. Nothing puts a smile on my face like the low end pull in the GTO and its got a good 400lbs on my f body
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 98CayenneT/A View Post
I would do a setup like mine in my sig and drive the **** out of it. 450+ rwhp will get ya moving real good and you will have plenty of money left over to have a paint correction done and have your car ceramic coated
You have a point here.
I notice you have a 4400 converter, is your TA a daily driver? How does it feel on the street?
Everyone always says a converter is one of the best mods for an auto, I need to get one at some point
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbomber5 View Post
You have a point here.
I notice you have a 4400 converter, is your TA a daily driver? How does it feel on the street?
Everyone always says a converter is one of the best mods for an auto, I need to get one at some point
My T/A is not a daily but it does see a lot of city driving when I do drive it. Imo with 3.73's it feels great but everyone's threshold is different. I hang out in the automatic section quite a bit and see guys saying a 3200-3600 was to loose in which I think they are nuts unless they have 2.73's in which it still would not bother me personally if that gives ya a idea of my tolerance. I do think this 4400 with 2.73's would get annoying to daily.

To kind of answer your question, I absolutely would daily my setup. Is the converter loose..... absolutely, but it does not bother me. Imo 3.73's and a yank ss3600 drive pretty close to stock tightness wise until you go wot.
If ya want I can PM (don't want to post it here and get the op's thread off track) ya a video of it going wot from 80 mph
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:01 PM
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Thanks for the input!
Yeah, shoot me that video whenever you get the time
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:10 AM
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400ish rwhp freshen ls1, decent cam, LS6 intake, longtubes, powerbond UD pulley, tune. Loads of fun, very driveable

or 550 rwhp, 8k ish though, 414 stroker based on iron 6.0L or 6.2L aluminum shortblock. Summit LS3 cnc ported LS3 heads, cam, ported LS3 intake and big TB, long tubes, powerbond UD pulley, tune. Not quite as cheap on fuel, but this set up will enlighten anyone who partakes in a passenger seat experience wholly well. Plus it will roast almost any new car out there

Have fun
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cam View Post
400ish rwhp freshen ls1, decent cam, LS6 intake, longtubes, powerbond UD pulley, tune. Loads of fun, very driveable

or 550 rwhp, 8k ish though, 414 stroker based on iron 6.0L or 6.2L aluminum shortblock. Summit LS3 cnc ported LS3 heads, cam, ported LS3 intake and big TB, long tubes, powerbond UD pulley, tune. Not quite as cheap on fuel, but this set up will enlighten anyone who partakes in a passenger seat experience wholly well. Plus it will roast almost any new car out there

Have fun
This really summarizes where I'm at. Realistically it looks like I'll just blow my budget out of the water and go with option 2, but I'm waiting to hear back on quotes from 2 shops and then I'll make my decision.
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