Help me make up my damn mind
07-10-2018, 01:10 PM
#1
Help me make up my damn mind 
Before I go insane. I have a massive itch to get this car running by fall. I've got an iron 5.3 block mocked up right now and a pile of new 2010 camaro FEAD parts. I want nothing more than to go outside and mock up an AC compressor, notch the chassis for it and order a damn engine but I don't even know what belt spacing to use yet since I have too many options for my build.
Here's the deal
96 Impala SS . Above all else, I'm looking to make the car my version of a modern CTSV/Hellcat Charger etc..meaning the primary goal is to have a low maintenance car I can beat the crap out of, drive everywhere in comfort and still put the whoopin on my friends in their LT4/Hellcat/whipple 5.0 cars that they'll be paying off for the next 8 years. "
Right now, I have a 4l60e that I trust behind about 600rwhp. I have ran one from the same builder in a caprice with 600whp that held up great and I have personally seen them push full weight impalas into the 9's. Over that HP range, I'd rather go 80e.
With that out of the way, here are my options:
LSA options: all these would have a few upgraded parts (HX, pulleys, injectors, tune, possibly flex fuel) to try to make around 600rwhp. The LSA comes out to slightly cheaper than the b15 with LSA blower options and could be far cheaper if I go with a source I know who is selling a new GM LSA engine with expired warranty for a few thousand cheaper than new.
LSA / 4l60e
LSA / Jakes 4l80e
B15 options: the LSA blower options would be using a weapon x setup using factory LSA drive and again, a few upgrades (same I would do for the LSA). The whipple would use their Camaro 6 rib setup which I hear runs into belt slip issues around 600rwhp. The potential is there to upgrade to a 10 rib in the future.
B15 LSX 376/ LSA/ 60E
B15 LSX 376/ LSA/ Jakes 80E
B15 LSX 376/ Whipple 2.9L/ 60e
B15 LSX 376/ Whipple 2.9L/ Jakes 80E (most expensive)
While I'd love to do the LSX, 2.9L and 80E, it is the most expensive and I think would push me out of budget when counting all the hidden expenses. I guess what I am concerned with most is whether or not the Whipple 2.9L is worth it if I don't plan to get greedy with the power. The potential for 700-750rwhp would be nice, but if I can be happy with 600WHP I am wondering if the whipple will be have any significant advantage in heat/efficiency over the LSA blower at those levels. I don't want the car to be slow, but I also have a weekend/race project car...so if I get the bug to go quicker, I can always just work on that.
Not that you guys can understand my cryptic writing, but basically those highlighted costs are my projected "out of pocket" cost after factoring in what I already have and selling stuff from my old TT 396 LT1 setup. The "no warranty" costs are for the LSA sold with the expired warranty.
Looking for any suggestions, critiques, opinions. And no, not going turbo or 5.3L or anything like that. I know this isn't the cheapest way, but I have always wanted a PD blown car and I'm looking to make this as factory like and easy as possible. Not looking to build motors, swap pistons, aftermarket cam or anything. Don't want a junkyard motor. Nothing wrong with any of that, I've done it before, just don't want it for this build.
Last edited by kris396ss; 07-10-2018 at 01:47 PM.
07-10-2018, 01:13 PM
#2
pics of build for attention. Part of my reason for getting a little crazy with the budget is the car does need paint/body work after the body sat for 10 years while I had the chassis in my garage LOL
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/145918422@N04/, on Flickr
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/145918422@N04/, on Flickr
by https://www.flickr.com/photos/145918422@N04/, on Flickr
been in debt to this car for years now, it would be nice to finish it all and finally enjoy it.
been in debt to this car for years now, it would be nice to finish it all and finally enjoy it.
07-10-2018, 01:16 PM
#3
Restricted User
I was on board until I seen the price tags, every single one of them is more than I have total invested in my Corvette or Nova.
Personally for 600 wheel I would go with an LSA crate with one of the 80e options from the first page.
Personally for 600 wheel I would go with an LSA crate with one of the 80e options from the first page.
07-10-2018, 02:12 PM
#4
Joe, it's definitely not a budget build. Ive been saving to build this car for 10 years, no joke LOL (I mean amongst tinkering on other projects).
The GM crate motors aren't cheap, but I love them. I used them at the old shop I worked at and have known plenty of other shops who have used them. there is just something so nice about lifting a factory assembled motor out of a crate and just bolting it into the car. Pricey, but worth it IMO. Especially for a car that I want to be a problem free almost-daily driver for many years to come. The b15 is a bit more than the LSA, and appears to have a lot more potential as I have seen guys pushing them over 1000hp.
the biggest cost seems to be the Whipple 2.9 though. to break it down, I can purchase a Weapon X complete LSA kit with upgraded HX, 1000cc injectors, throttle body and everything needed to bolt the blower up for $5500. It's a remanned blower , but from a trusted company.
The whipple is $5750, plus throttle body which at minimum, for a new stock one, $200. HX another $500, HX pump- $230, injectors- $750. Right there i'm at 2k more than the LSA blower. At first I figured it would be 100% worth it, but talking to many vendors I have been told the 6 rib whipple setups on camaro loops run into belt slip at around 600rwhp, and I have seen plenty of guys making 600rwhp hp with stock LSA blowers. not sure how much more efficiently the whipple would be making that same power, and how much cooler IATs it would have, but it's a lot more money to spend on something that basically has the same power potential until you drop another $1500-2000 on a 10 rib drive kit.
As far as the trans, I could save money by using the 60e with any of the setups, but I don't know if that's smart long term. It's an LT1 trans with a 13 pin connector. the LT1 trans shouldn't be much of a problem for the LSA with a spacer, but might be a pain to make work with the 8 bolt LSX b15 flange.
The GM crate motors aren't cheap, but I love them. I used them at the old shop I worked at and have known plenty of other shops who have used them. there is just something so nice about lifting a factory assembled motor out of a crate and just bolting it into the car. Pricey, but worth it IMO. Especially for a car that I want to be a problem free almost-daily driver for many years to come. The b15 is a bit more than the LSA, and appears to have a lot more potential as I have seen guys pushing them over 1000hp.
the biggest cost seems to be the Whipple 2.9 though. to break it down, I can purchase a Weapon X complete LSA kit with upgraded HX, 1000cc injectors, throttle body and everything needed to bolt the blower up for $5500. It's a remanned blower , but from a trusted company.
The whipple is $5750, plus throttle body which at minimum, for a new stock one, $200. HX another $500, HX pump- $230, injectors- $750. Right there i'm at 2k more than the LSA blower. At first I figured it would be 100% worth it, but talking to many vendors I have been told the 6 rib whipple setups on camaro loops run into belt slip at around 600rwhp, and I have seen plenty of guys making 600rwhp hp with stock LSA blowers. not sure how much more efficiently the whipple would be making that same power, and how much cooler IATs it would have, but it's a lot more money to spend on something that basically has the same power potential until you drop another $1500-2000 on a 10 rib drive kit.
As far as the trans, I could save money by using the 60e with any of the setups, but I don't know if that's smart long term. It's an LT1 trans with a 13 pin connector. the LT1 trans shouldn't be much of a problem for the LSA with a spacer, but might be a pain to make work with the 8 bolt LSX b15 flange.
Last edited by kris396ss; 07-10-2018 at 02:18 PM.
07-10-2018, 02:21 PM
#5
Restricted User
I would skip the 60e completely. I've had more bad ones than I can count. Long term, its just a bad investment.
Ported LSA blowers have made ~700whp on a couple of setups. The Whipple is a better long-term investment.
I also wouldn't claim Weapon X is a 'trusted company'. They have a great reputation online. Here in town (they're local to me), its not always the same story.
Ported LSA blowers have made ~700whp on a couple of setups. The Whipple is a better long-term investment.
I also wouldn't claim Weapon X is a 'trusted company'. They have a great reputation online. Here in town (they're local to me), its not always the same story.
07-10-2018, 05:11 PM
#6
I would skip the 60e completely. I've had more bad ones than I can count. Long term, its just a bad investment.
Ported LSA blowers have made ~700whp on a couple of setups. The Whipple is a better long-term investment.
I also wouldn't claim Weapon X is a 'trusted company'. They have a great reputation online. Here in town (they're local to me), its not always the same story.
Ported LSA blowers have made ~700whp on a couple of setups. The Whipple is a better long-term investment.
I also wouldn't claim Weapon X is a 'trusted company'. They have a great reputation online. Here in town (they're local to me), its not always the same story.
Kind of disappointed with the whipple. The Coyote guys are making 750+whp on PUMP GAS with them without anything other than intake/exhaust mods. . It's an awesome blower, but it seems like all the drive setups for LS cars either suck (6 rib factory loop) or are extremely pricey (whipple 10 rib loop or aftermarket FEAD which puts you over the 10K price range for the blower, HX, HX pump and injectors). I would love to see them make one to replace the LSA blower on the 8 rib LSA loop, but as far as I know the only one made was by a company called KDi and they had a pretty high failure rate. I don't even think they exist anymore.
I am leaning towards the 80E. I do trust this 60e at the 600whp mark....but it just seems like too much trouble to get it to work being it is an LT1 trans with 13 pin connector. Especially if I go LSX with the 8 bolt flange, it just makes more sense to go with a new transmission and converter and upgrade in the process.
More than anything else, I want this car to be relatively trouble free and reliable (like my version of a new car) so the 80e seems like a good place to spend the money LOL
Last edited by kris396ss; 07-10-2018 at 05:23 PM.
07-10-2018, 05:44 PM
#7
Restricted User
The handling power between the LSA and B15 is almost identical. The B15 crate engine uses mostly OEM parts.
It uses LSA crank/rods, LS7 cam, LS3 intake rockers, your average LS exhaust rocker. The biggest differences being LSX block and heads. Neither of which are even close to being needed at 600-700 HP. LSA crate engine is going to be your best bang/buck.
No matter how much you trust that 60e, it will fail you.
There are other companies with supercharged crate engines. Lingenfelter, Morris, Turn-Key Powertrain, Blueprint, etc.
It uses LSA crank/rods, LS7 cam, LS3 intake rockers, your average LS exhaust rocker. The biggest differences being LSX block and heads. Neither of which are even close to being needed at 600-700 HP. LSA crate engine is going to be your best bang/buck.
No matter how much you trust that 60e, it will fail you.
There are other companies with supercharged crate engines. Lingenfelter, Morris, Turn-Key Powertrain, Blueprint, etc.
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07-10-2018, 08:09 PM
#8
Joe, the b15 also has forged pistons vs the hypereutectics on the LSA (though minus the pistol squirters). The LSX-LS3 head supposedly flows a bit more than an LSA head and since I'm not swapping cams, the ls7 cam should be a bit more boost friendly than the LSA. The 6 head bolts per cyl and iron block I'm sure I won't need, but can't hurt if I ever change my mind about things in the future. The cost difference between the b15 and LSA blower vs new crate LSA is barely anything, so I feel like I might as well go with the b15. Although if I went with the non-warranties LSA crate engine, I could probably pick it up for abou 3k cheaper than a new crate LSA. Just don't know if I A) trust the source and B) want to spend almost 9k on something with no warranty, not that the GM warranty means much anyway...
07-10-2018, 08:13 PM
#9
Also most other crate engines (or built engines from TSP for example end up a decent amount more than any of my other options. Those costs I listed are for the entire build, driveshaft, exhaust, what parts I need left for fuel system etc... (i know it's sort of in code lol). I've seen many supercharged crate engines going for over 20k alone.
I think we can cross the 60e options off the list though, unless I run into some serious trouble with trying to sell my
60e/converter, I think I will be going with the 80e.
I think we can cross the 60e options off the list though, unless I run into some serious trouble with trying to sell my
60e/converter, I think I will be going with the 80e.
07-12-2018, 11:01 AM
#10
Alright, well I made up my mind.
I ended up choosing the LSX B15 with LSA blower option. I priced out all of the LSA parts individually from a list of PN's that was posted on the chevy SS forums and I found that I could purchase everything new for around $4700 (that's INCLUDING a few aftermarket parts like ID1000 injectors, AFCO heat exchanger). Doing some reading on the CTSV forum, there are guys hitting 600rwhp with the mods I would already be setting the car up with (upgraded HX, ZL1 lid, 1 7/8ths headers, exhaust, intake, flex fuel tune ) plus an upper pulley swap. That's about as much as the 2.9L whipple supposedly will make on the factory 6 rib and for about 3k cheaper. The whipple could support a lot more with the 10 rib, but then I'm looking at about 6k over the 1.9L. Just doesn't seem worth it at all.
the B15 already has a slightly more aggressive cam than the LSA (identical to LS9 cam aside from a 120 LSA vs the LS9's 122) and I have read that the LSX as cast heads flow a bit better than what I have seen LSA heads flow. Combined with the forged pistons and the fact that the fully furnished B15 is only about $1000 more than the LSA, it seems worth it for the long term investment. I am thinking that if I ever have the urge for more power, I could port the blower and spray it it with a 100 shot. The forged pistons would give me peace of mind and I know the rods/crank/block could handle 1000hp.
Biggest issue right now is fitment of the AC. I really don't want to go with a mini compressor like the Sd7b10, I want to stick with something that pumps about 10cid per revolution. Vintage Air was very helpful and recommended their low mount bracket for corvette spacing with a Sanden 709 compressor (about 9.5 cid per revolution). It's on the way from jegs and I'll be mocking it up as soon as it comes. I'm fine with notching, just don't want to take a 3 " chunk out of the chassis or anything.
I ended up choosing the LSX B15 with LSA blower option. I priced out all of the LSA parts individually from a list of PN's that was posted on the chevy SS forums and I found that I could purchase everything new for around $4700 (that's INCLUDING a few aftermarket parts like ID1000 injectors, AFCO heat exchanger). Doing some reading on the CTSV forum, there are guys hitting 600rwhp with the mods I would already be setting the car up with (upgraded HX, ZL1 lid, 1 7/8ths headers, exhaust, intake, flex fuel tune ) plus an upper pulley swap. That's about as much as the 2.9L whipple supposedly will make on the factory 6 rib and for about 3k cheaper. The whipple could support a lot more with the 10 rib, but then I'm looking at about 6k over the 1.9L. Just doesn't seem worth it at all.
the B15 already has a slightly more aggressive cam than the LSA (identical to LS9 cam aside from a 120 LSA vs the LS9's 122) and I have read that the LSX as cast heads flow a bit better than what I have seen LSA heads flow. Combined with the forged pistons and the fact that the fully furnished B15 is only about $1000 more than the LSA, it seems worth it for the long term investment. I am thinking that if I ever have the urge for more power, I could port the blower and spray it it with a 100 shot. The forged pistons would give me peace of mind and I know the rods/crank/block could handle 1000hp.
Biggest issue right now is fitment of the AC. I really don't want to go with a mini compressor like the Sd7b10, I want to stick with something that pumps about 10cid per revolution. Vintage Air was very helpful and recommended their low mount bracket for corvette spacing with a Sanden 709 compressor (about 9.5 cid per revolution). It's on the way from jegs and I'll be mocking it up as soon as it comes. I'm fine with notching, just don't want to take a 3 " chunk out of the chassis or anything.
07-12-2018, 11:07 AM
#11
Oh, and I will be going with an 80E. I'll be calling a few of the more reputable builders today to get prices. Biggest concern is I want this car running by end of summer/early fall. I know you must wait for most good things, but hoping to find a reputable trans builder that won't hold onto my money for 4 months before delivering LOL.