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I hate to say this but you are going to be one disappointed guy with that. I have had every type of scenario of towing rig power plant there is. Without a doubt the diesel is superior for towing hands down. Anyone telling you different either has no idea or is just plain lieing to you or both. The duramax will make an *** out of any big block or LS towing period. I don't know why anyone would say it costs more to maintain because that's bullshit. The fuel savings alone will more than cover any initial extra it will cost. Sell that suburban and get a crew cab. If you need more storage get a cap. You can thank everyone who told you this after the first mountain you climb with it. I tow a 44ft goose neck grossing 20,000lbs up and down mountains with the Cruze on. Try that with a gas job. Last gas job I had couldn't even go over 55mph on a windy head wind day on flat ground pulling a 29ft travel trailer that only weighed 8000lbs loaded. About killed it. It's one of those things that if you have to be told you probably won't understand unless you experience it. Everyone that does is absolutely amazed at the difference. You will be too. Go rent one and try it. You will forget all about that big block. FACT
Sounds like you never towed with a gasser worth a ****.
What kind of weight are you pulling, what kind of gas mileage loaded, and flat ground or mountains? Be honest. If you have never towed with a Duramax or even if your a Ford guy their 6.7 then you just don't know. Until you tow something 15000lbs+ up mountains with a diesel then you will know. Go take one for a test ride and go hook on a trailer and try it. You live in Co. springs. Should be easy to see. The biggest problem with gas is they don't last pulling anything heavy not to mention how horrible the gas consumption is. I have towed with many different big blocks in the past and thought they were great too. Then I got a Duramax and could not believe how wrong I was. Try one you'll see. Freakin thing is like a sports car when its not hooked to anything. Had 2 ford guys running their mouths at the track one day that had diesels. They had tuners, down pipes, new deleted exhaust, and cold air intakes on them. Told them to take their *** to the line. Raced them both 3 times each. They both got smoked by 10 trucks each time by a bone stock Duramax with DEF. My truck puts down a 1.98 60ft in 4wd with a full 100 gal tote in the bed, 2- 250lb+ guys, and after the last pass on the return road i realized I never shut the A/C off because we had the windows down. Freakin thing is a Beast.
Your right. Thought they were till i finally bought a Diesel. By that statement it sounds like you never towed with a Duramax.
I've towed with both Stock BBC and Duramax and yes the Duramax is a great tow rig but you've apparently never driven modified BBC... he (OP) isn't going with a stock BBC so it shouldn't be a turd and being purpose built it should have plenty of towing power. Fuel consumption is probably not going to be good though lol.
Small Update. I am still moving forward on this. I Found a Gen7 block finally, and will get 632" or so out of this, and will still use the Iron Dart heads. I understand that is a limiting factor on detonation and maybe cooling, but we will see.
Need to pick a cam that will be good for that many cubes. But also the truck weighs 6600 or so, and the trailer with a car in it will be about 7k. Max is 10k. Which is not too much, unless you know what going up and down the grapevine is like.
Ditch that idea and just get a diesel. I don't know why your so hell bent on a massive BBC when you've been told numerous times throughout this thread that a diesel is the way to go. It'll tow like ****.
But do it your way. And then come back and complain that your fuel mileage is zero and can't tow anything.
What kind of weight are you pulling, what kind of gas mileage loaded, and flat ground or mountains? Be honest. If you have never towed with a Duramax or even if your a Ford guy their 6.7 then you just don't know. Until you tow something 15000lbs+ up mountains with a diesel then you will know. Go take one for a test ride and go hook on a trailer and try it. You live in Co. springs. Should be easy to see. The biggest problem with gas is they don't last pulling anything heavy not to mention how horrible the gas consumption is. I have towed with many different big blocks in the past and thought they were great too. Then I got a Duramax and could not believe how wrong I was. Try one you'll see. Freakin thing is like a sports car when its not hooked to anything. Had 2 ford guys running their mouths at the track one day that had diesels. They had tuners, down pipes, new deleted exhaust, and cold air intakes on them. Told them to take their *** to the line. Raced them both 3 times each. They both got smoked by 10 trucks each time by a bone stock Duramax with DEF. My truck puts down a 1.98 60ft in 4wd with a full 100 gal tote in the bed, 2- 250lb+ guys, and after the last pass on the return road i realized I never shut the A/C off because we had the windows down. Freakin thing is a Beast.
It's not that diesels don't tow better, I simply cannot stomach the up front cost of one. I put a 5000# camper in the bed of mine, then hook up a 9000# trailer and go to the track.
No mountain passes with that combo, but I have hit them with just the camper and haven't had any issues. It'd be a rough day if I had to head West on I-70 with the whole rig, but that's pretty much never going to be something that I face. My truck makes, according to Whipple, north of 600# of torque which is early dmax numbers anyway. I've been nothing short of impressed with this truck's performance. My modded 1500 pulls this trailer locked in OD as well, supercharged 350 with 4L80 and 4.10.
Wow yeah thats a pretty good load. That has got to be one of the largest slide in campers I have ever seen. Is that a slide on there too? Looks like that would be a handful on a windy day I don't care what motor is in it. What is the gas mileage with it all hooked up? Like 5mpg. Initial cost of a diesel? I know that whipple wasn't cheap. Then you factor in the difference in fuel consumption, you lost money and will keep loosing money as long as you own it. You can find a very good used diesel and the initial cost is pretty much gone but the fuel mileage isn't. Mine is 500hp and 785tq. and gets 22mpg empty and 16mpg with our 20,000lb rig, and runs 85mph on cruz no sweat. You really don't even know its back there. Lol The new Eaton rear end Gm put in the newer trucks is a beast too. Dwarfs the 14 bolt of old. The brakes are beyond belief good on the newer trucks too. Nothing like the GM trucks 90's and earlier. It really is amazing how good they are now. But if that turns your crank then who am I to judge. Just was trying to let you know what your missing. I know I sure was till I got one. And I had some bad *** 500+ci big blocks too. Never again for towing. Best of Luck to You. I'm out.
I hate to say this but you are going to be one disappointed guy with that. I have had every type of scenario of towing rig power plant there is. Without a doubt the diesel is superior for towing hands down. Anyone telling you different either has no idea or is just plain lieing to you or both. The duramax will make an *** out of any big block or LS towing period. I don't know why anyone would say it costs more to maintain because that's bullshit. The fuel savings alone will more than cover any initial extra it will cost. Sell that suburban and get a crew cab. If you need more storage get a cap. You can thank everyone who told you this after the first mountain you climb with it. I tow a 44ft goose neck grossing 20,000lbs up and down mountains with the Cruze on. Try that with a gas job. Last gas job I had couldn't even go over 55mph on a windy head wind day on flat ground pulling a 29ft travel trailer that only weighed 8000lbs loaded. About killed it. It's one of those things that if you have to be told you probably won't understand unless you experience it. Everyone that does is absolutely amazed at the difference. You will be too. Go rent one and try it. You will forget all about that big block. FACT
I can see where you are coming from. I have driven comfortable diesels. You mention gas savings. There is some savings with better mpg and higher btu. But I did lay out my requirements. Mentioning a crew cab doesn’t make sense when I use the suburban like an suv. Three rows. Inside storage (a cap is not inside storage, and no crew cab made since Reagan has three rows). I had a day dream about duraburbing the 2021 suburban. Man that would rock. But also 100k all in. Maybe if I can find the next stock that goes up 3000 percent in this virus stock market.
The blindside here is the math I think. You sort of wished it away but I saw two diesel scenarios. New/nearly new or putting a diesel in my own truck. I know those numbers and both of them are about 30k.
I am am putting a BBC in for what will be about 5-7k.
25000 miles a year/ 15mpg at 3.50 a gallon (not using today’s prices - they will go back up and fast)
5900 or so. Those are my diesel numbers.
Same miles but with 8.5mpg is 10,200 dollars in gas. I’m beating super generous on the mileage and miles.
Difference is just over 4K
30k for an okay diesel for my needs. 7k for me for the BBC maybe with a nova on it as I already have one.
23k difference. If I tow 25k miles a year, which is as if I am doing it for a living, I’m near 6 years out on payback. If I drive 12k a year I’m 12 years out.
The math does not get better as the diesel costs go up.
Ditch that idea and just get a diesel. I don't know why your so hell bent on a massive BBC when you've been told numerous times throughout this thread that a diesel is the way to go. It'll tow like ****.
But do it your way. And then come back and complain that your fuel mileage is zero and can't tow anything.
I have done some simple, tough on gas math in my previous post. We can keep it civil, but “just buy a diesel” is the same thing as someone saying “just buy a mclaren 720s” if I say I’m trying to get more than 650 out of my z06.
The cost on the BBC is a bit lower then normal as I have some parts I’m swapping, or already had other items.
But I am also conservative on the diesel. We know they get super expensive very fast.
Academic? Of course diesel. But dropping 50k on this? Not in the priority list.
I can see where you are coming from. I have driven comfortable diesels. You mention gas savings. There is some savings with better mpg and higher btu. But I did lay out my requirements. Mentioning a crew cab doesn’t make sense when I use the suburban like an suv. Three rows. Inside storage (a cap is not inside storage, and no crew cab made since Reagan has three rows). I had a day dream about duraburbing the 2021 suburban. Man that would rock. But also 100k all in. Maybe if I can find the next stock that goes up 3000 percent in this virus stock market.
The blindside here is the math I think. You sort of wished it away but I saw two diesel scenarios. New/nearly new or putting a diesel in my own truck. I know those numbers and both of them are about 30k.
I am am putting a BBC in for what will be about 5-7k.
25000 miles a year/ 15mpg at 3.50 a gallon (not using today’s prices - they will go back up and fast)
5900 or so. Those are my diesel numbers.
Same miles but with 8.5mpg is 10,200 dollars in gas. I’m beating super generous on the mileage and miles.
Difference is just over 4K
30k for an okay diesel for my needs. 7k for me for the BBC maybe with a nova on it as I already have one.
23k difference. If I tow 25k miles a year, which is as if I am doing it for a living, I’m near 6 years out on payback. If I drive 12k a year I’m 12 years out.
The math does not get better as the diesel costs go up.
money no object? Sure.
This here is exactly why I just keep filling the tank, and I only tow a couple thousand miles a year typically so it'd take even longer for the money to come back in my favor. I'd be in another truck by then and be even farther behind.
2020 duramax MPG = 18-19 at best, this is know from experience.....at $1.95 this thing goes 10k miles a year on about $980.00. This is a $10,000 engine option over the 6.6l gas
2020 6.6l gas rated at 15mpg.....at $1.75/gal this thing goes 10k miles a year on about $1160.00
BBC I'm guessing 9-10mpg...10k miles on this is about $1940.00
When people say the fuel saving alone on a $10,000 diesel upgrade are worth it, they are failing at grade school math. In order for the fuel savings to pay for it self on a Duramax, you would have to drive the truck for 125 years at 10k miles a year to break even on the upgrade price. Drive 100k miles a year and the saving pay for the upgrade in 6.5 years, when you roll 650,000 miles on the clock lol.
It's mathematically impossible for it to pay for itself in savings. Even over the BBC, we're talking 10 years in fill ups before you see the savings...
Ive been having this argument for the last 10 years
Last edited by LetsTurboSomething; 04-27-2020 at 01:33 PM.
And to be level handed on the other side of the argument, I do not believe they are purely focusing on the cost. I think they are using Personal experience to say that the tow is just better “if you can or want to swing it”
which, academically, I agree with. I’m in the Chevy stealer getting a nice 2021 truck then in that case. But then I don’t have my suburban. In which case I’m duraburbing a new 2021 sub.
Originally Posted by LetsTurboSomething
2020 duramax MPG = 18-19 at best, this is know from experience.....at $1.95 this thing goes 10k miles a year on about $980.00. This is a $10,000 engine option over the 6.6l gas
2020 6.6l gas rated at 15mpg.....at $1.75/gal this thing goes 10k miles a year on about $1160.00
BBC I'm guessing 9-10mpg...10k miles on this is about $1940.00
When people say the fuel saving alone on a $10,000 diesel upgrade are worth it, they are failing at grade school math. In order for the fuel savings to pay for it self on a Duramax, you would have to drive the truck for 125 years at 10k miles a year to break even on the upgrade price. Drive 100k miles a year and the saving pay for the upgrade in 6.5 years, when you roll 650,000 miles on the clock lol.
It's mathematically impossible for it to pay for itself in savings. Even over the BBC, we're talking 10 years in fill ups before you see the savings...
Ive been having this argument for the last 10 years
Forget the Big Block. Gas Mileage Will SUCK !
#1 GO DIESEL - I recommend CUMMINS
#2 BUILD A NICE LS STROKER MOTOR
WITH A NICE SET OF HIGH VELOCITY HEADS
AND A TOW CAM
THROW GEARS IN THE MIX AND CALL IT A DAY
You won't regret going to Diesel.
They get excellent fuel economy and won't struggle on the hills.
There is one huge thing you all are forgetting to factor in on cost. The Duramax will outlast three big blocks pulling heavy loads. Even with a super charger, how can you keep from cooking the motor on a hot day pulling a long steep grade. No inner cooler to help you with a wipple. Its like flying. Would you rather be in first class enjoying your journey or in coach with some fat **** sitting next to you sweating all over you and won't shut up. I will pay for first class every time. I'm worth it. I could have gotten my wife a regular yukon but I got her a Yukon Denali. Same ****. That 6.2 is one bad bitch too.
There is one huge thing you all are forgetting to factor in on cost. The Duramax will outlast three big blocks pulling heavy loads. Even with a super charger, how can you keep from cooking the motor on a hot day pulling a long steep grade. No inner cooler to help you with a wipple. Its like flying. Would you rather be in first class enjoying your journey or in coach with some fat **** sitting next to you sweating all over you and won't shut up. I will pay for first class every time. I'm worth it. I could have gotten my wife a regular yukon but I got her a Yukon Denali. Same ****. That 6.2 is one bad bitch too.
Throwing fistfuls of cash at the problem is almost universally bad advice on forums like this. Its a tuning and customization site, if solving the problems with cash every time was an option most people would just go out and purchase a turnkey finished hotrod or just go buy the newer duramax truck or just go buy a brand new LS9 equipped car instead of turboing their ls1's. The site is centered around a 20 year old engine....
My opinion might catch some steam behind it but here is my opinion....
If you are towing over a hour and a half each way o would consider diesel. Yes diesels get great gas mileage and Yes diesel repairs/parts are outrageous. a Duramax water pump is 260 dollars vs a big block water pump is 50 bucks. Let's not even talk about injectors or transmission replacements.
Otherwise I would stay Big block Chevy. My 97 model 454 vortec gets 12 MPG either I'm towing loaded or not. It's a 3/4 ton 8 lug truck.
GMT 400 trucks are the best bang for the buck period right now. Here is a run down on things and prices I have done. The guy I bought the truck from is retired and wanted something more seating comforting. I replaced parts when I first bought it just to do it but the truck was running PERFECTLY besides the brakes and the driver side window was off track.
1800 dollars for the truck.
90 dollars for rear brakes. Needed those bad. New
60 bucks for spark plugs. New
42 bucks for ignition wires. New
12 bucks for thermostat. New
25 bucks fuel filter. New
18 bucks for air filter. New
20 dollars for oil filter. New
23 bucks for valve cover gaskets. New
70 dollars for window track repair. New
40 bucks for radiator hoses. the old ones was soft and spongy. New
I called jegs and ordered new headlights for 73 dollars. Spyder brand. The old ones was horrible. I barely could see at night.
The grill was broken on the mounting tabs so that was 120 bucks from summit racing.
40 bucks for taillights from Amazon.
7 dollars for black spray paint for wheels. Wal-mart
120 bucks for Pioneer CD player. The tape player had to. #crutchfield
120 bucks for 4 Polk DB series door speakers. **** sounds good and clear. #crutchfield
I bought the toolbox from a coworker for 30 bucks. It's diamond plated and dull looking but I'll be addressing that soon as well.
The headliner is hanging pretty bad so I'll be ordering headliner material Friday from Amazon. Its roughly 30 dollars.
And I'll be doing some 15 or 20 percent tint soon as well.
However I need some new tires. These are old.
Visited my local junkyard and bought a spare tire and rim for 30 bucks. After a wire brush and spray paint I simply tossed it in the back of the bed of the truck.
Best part about the truck is that it don't cost lots of money for repairs. Worst part is that it only can sit 3 people or so.
Diesels are the best for towing, if you own a company and can depreciate the costs. For personal use you'll probably sell the truck before you hit the break even point.
I'd go BBC since you're already part way there. If you were starting from scratch I'd say go with a stroked gen4. Essentially a BBC but that swaps in place of your 6.0 without much trouble.
Diesels are the best for towing, if you own a company and can depreciate the costs. For personal use you'll probably sell the truck before you hit the break even point.
I'd go BBC since you're already part way there. If you were starting from scratch I'd say go with a stroked gen4. Essentially a BBC but that swaps in place of your 6.0 without much trouble.
How much low end would a stroked LS really make compared to a big block? Remember 3000 is not low end but that's where most hot rod dynos start.
04-24-2020, 09:17 AM
a Duramax water pump is 260 dollars vs a big block water pump is 50 bucks. Let's not even talk about injectors or transmission replacements. 
