TTur1996

Your pretty slow huh. Not one time did i say to go out and buy a brand new one Genius. I usually never buy new. If your patient and look around, you can find a lot of stuff very reasonable. You can find a garage queen that someone just had to have and ended up not liking it for whatever reason, and get it cheap as can be with very low mileage. My friend just bought a 2014 Duramax crew cab for 28000 with 45000 miles on it. I got my wife a 2015 Yukon Denali with 48,000 on it for 22,000. They both look and drive like they are brand new. Perfect examples. I did buy my D-max new in 2013 and if you get the lower end truck and just add all the things you want it wasn't bad at all. I got The Denali wheels and grill, Towing package, heated leather all around, bed liner with rail protectors, molded mud flaps, and all the other bells and whistles. Its a crew cab 4x4 and I got it for 58,000 out the door. I work on all my own **** too. The biggest thing you all are missing is that the OP is going to be hauling in the mountains with it hot as **** outside. Big difference. So try and keep up. Jealousy will get you no where either. That is why I work my *** off. So I can enjoy the pleasures of life. You should try it. Or maybe you believe, your not worth it.

bammax

A stroked LS would make at least as much as a factory BBC of the same displacement if built right. You get better heads and intake and a bit less weight. It's just tricky to get over 427ci without starting from an LS7 or an aftermarket block. The real trick is building it the opposite of everyone else on this site lol.

Supercharged111

iTrader: (1)

My point is that the big block is built from the ground up to grunt hard down low. That's now how an LS starts its life. I'm not convinced it could punch harder down low than an 8.1.

bammax

The block really doesn't matter other than having the strength to hold together. Two engines with the same displacement will make the same power if they have the same efficiency. It's a matter of using the right heads, cam and exhaust to make the power where you need it. An engine is just an air pump remember.

The 8.1 stock makes about 450 ft-lbs at 3k rpm. There's some basic LS builds that aren't far off from that. Once you stroke the 8.1 it becomes a real monster, but at that point it's more money than a Duramax and still less torque.

Supercharged111

iTrader: (1)

I'm more interested in the 2000 RPM range myself, 3000 is not low end. I know you're quoting peak, I'm just emphasizing my point. Not an easy matter to Google either as nobody strokes a motor for this purpose.

bammax

I spent months trying to get dyno charts on different builds so I definitely understand the problem. I found that many of the diesel places that do dyno work will go down to 2k rpm for their runs. Those graphs are hard to find but show some pretty good info if you can track down the gas motors on those dynos.

BrendanC

Yes. Last time I went to Laguna I towed a 20 foot enclosed and it towed okay behind the 3/4 ton sub. I have to work on the front end wander which wasn’t there before I had the Saginaw tightened.

Also, as I mentioned possibly, I was nearly to the floor at 35 mph. Engine hot, trans worse, and waiting for s rod to come out the side of the block. I think I have video somewhere. And as the diesel man says, it’s hot.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YdtZ4sWoiNn4ZTiG8

cant tell if you can see this.

BadAzzS10

Dude, there's no way your spending 30K to put a diesel in your pickup. That's total bullshit.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Good thread

I have a 03 6.0 2500hd ecsb 4x4 i tow with that i bought new. It does decent. It's pulled everything i have put on it or behind it. Ive pulled up to 16k lbs with it and my dump trailer, 23k lb gross. Mostly just the normal cars and crap on my car trailer with the occasional truck or surburban on it. Overall it's decent. Mpg's suck at 14-15 empty highway and typically 10-12 around town and 9-12 towing. It has 33x12.5 tires and 4.10s with a 4l80. I have a lance 845 i haul on it and when i tow with the camper on it it's usually just a jetski or small trailer. I would feel comfortable with a open car trailer behind it too. Just haven't did that.

Will it tow like a dmax.....nope. Nothing i have been in will. Can you improve on the 6.0 for towing?? Yup. Recent changes i have made to mine is i put e-fans on it because the clutch fan sucks. If a 6.0 starts running hot put a new clutch fan on it. Even if you think it ain't bad it likely is. Far and away the biggest change i made to mine is i turned off the 60 sec pe delay in the tune. Night and day difference in acceleration with and w/o a load. I think it will even increase my mpg's.

I have a identical configured dmax also. It's hurt with a blown head gasket and will still curb stomp my 6.0 pulling. By contrast my 6.0 pulls better than my dad's bbc trucks did.

The 6.0 truck feels more nimble, it goes off road better and dragy'd to a 15.5@91 mph. Really....unless you're pulling over 10k lbs alot the diesel is probably just more expense. The diesel will do the job easier and with more gusto. But the 6.0 will do the job it just works harder.

As a side benefit of the diesel. Errytime you start it your ***** will enlarge and grow more hair.

Supercharged111

iTrader: (1)

I tuned my neighbor's 6.0. Got rid of the PE delay, commanded 12.5:1 in PE, added timing and brought it in a lot sooner, 5500 shift points, shortened the shifts, it really woke it up. Bringing in the timing sooner is almost a universal thing you can do to most any car that really improves the drivability. Did it to my 350 and 454. I think it's worse for emissions? Big whoop.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the tip on timing. I did put ss silverado timing tables in mine. That's about all i could get in it and not knock on 87 octane. Other than that the engine tune is stock and still pig rich. I have adjusted shift points.

I'm gonna order speed engineering headers/full exhaust for it because well.....it's a 17yr old truck and the exhaust is giving up on it. I go more in depth on the tuning then.

Turning the pe delay off is huge on those trucks. It just grunts and gets with the program now. Like to see a goal of running 14s get met with it after the headers, more tuning and a cai. Maybe some 1.8 roller rockers. It ran 16.1@86 mph bone stock.

LetsTurboSomething

2 second gain with headers is asking a whole lot IMO but if you're going to go for a retune after changing the headers then i would just bite the bullet and drop the $280 on a new cam too and then you'll get your 2 seconds and if you go with a torque cam it will tow even better. A truck cam and headers are good for 120hp and 120ftlb in that engine. Maybe 30-40 hp for headers alone and 70 alone for a cam. That's pretty insane for stuff that works on the stock converter still.

bammax

The 6.0 is a much better tow engine after they started using the 6l80 instead of the 4l80. That first gear is crazy. It's too bad that it can't be swapped into earlier trucks very easy.

Supercharged111

iTrader: (1)

Oh but they can with a sub-$1,000 controller. Hell you can put one behind a carb motor.

JROC

Years ago I used to know a guy who liked to build old SBF and BBF motors and throw them in Mustangs and old Ford trucks. I once asked him why a large displacement SB has a hard time matching the low-end power a BB with the same displacement produces. His answer to me was that much of a BB's extra grunt comes from just the mass and weight of their bottom-end components (crank/rods/pistons) compared to the ones uses in a similar displacement SB. How correct he was IDK for sure but he was a knowledgeable guy and his explanation seems sound.

He would also talk about how everything on the top-end of a BB was in general noticeably bigger than on a SB (intake runners, valves, ports in the heads, headers, I'd assume a much larger cam is typical in a BB, etc) but I'd think that would be more beneficial to the power they make on the big end.

OP diesels are nice, but if on a budget you could likely take either a LS based motor or BBC and build a turbo setup using some small/responsive snails that would likely work well for a tow vehicle. Really most lowend focused BB's are too torque down low to want to use 1st gear when not towing unless maybe you're running some very conservative rear gear. If small snails can do it for a 3.5L V6 then IMO there's no reason they can't make a 5.3L or larger motor make some really good low-end power. At that point when towing a lot you better just start paying attention to what transmission you're using and keeping your whole drivetrain cooled properly. Investing in coolers and whatnot is strongly recommended IMO.

What rearend did GM put in your Suburban? I hear people still knocking the rearends GM is still putting in their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, but I'm not an expert on the matter.

LLLosingit

iTrader: (4)

The added weight is only good as the initial load is placed on the driveline, After that rotating mass is a disadvantage because not only is the power being used to move the vehicle it also used to keep the rotating mass spinning. It's all about cubic inches.

HioSSilver

iTrader: (8)

It's not 2 sec. It went 15.5 @91 via dragy which is very very accurate. So it needs to gain .6 via full exhaust, tune, cai.

Problem with cams and trucks is they mostly reduce tq where the engine does most it's work. i need tq at 2000-3500 rpm....maybe even up to 4500 or so. But really that's only if it's in 2nd gear pulling hard at like 70mph.

A6 would be great in my old truck. It runs over 90mph in second gear and that's with 4.10s and 285/70 17. Basically a 4l80 is a glide with 2 overdrives ....lol

same thing goes for these heavy clutches guys still use.

bammax

Last bigblock I had was a Buick 455. I did a few basic upgrades and that thing became a monster. I'd get on the highway and watch the gas gauge drop. It was getting around 5 mpg with the th400 in a 6,000 pound tank. I'll always remember how heavy everything was. Even the intake was huge. Makes me like the little plastic ones we have now lol.

LetsTurboSomething

They sell a truck cam now that is cut just for torque and not necessarily max HP gains now. They are impressive, you should check them out. They don't move the power curve at all.

LetsTurboSomething

There is a lot of truth to how he described it. It's what lets a heavy rotating mass engine not bog as easy while getting that heavy load moving but also limits its ability to gain rpm as it spins faster and faster.

My snowblower is 8hp and it has a 15lb flywheel on it. Which is insanely heavy for such a small engine but required to keep the engine momentum up when it bogs in heavy snow loads. Same with lawn mowers. You can get a lot more work out of a lot less HP in a small engine if you stick a heavy flywheel on it. It's a really awesome concept when the engine's requirements are to lug along a load at a constant steady speed. So YES absolutely that is a reason a BB engine might do better in the sub 2500rpm area, but once past that the SM will have an advantage by not having to expend energy to keep accelerating all that extra rotating mass.

But it's advantage is basically limited to engaging the clutch, once you're locked in and accelerating it's a disadvantage. Think of it like this, that weight resists bogging(slowing down) the same amount that it resists accelerating but also requires more outside force to drain off the momentum. It's a kinetic energy storage device.