Deciding on whether or not I should do an engine swap or buy an entirely new car....
08-12-2006, 09:41 PM
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Deciding on whether or not I should do an engine swap or buy an entirely new car.... *pretty long post, but I think its worth it?*
So yeah, after my friends and I got into a deep discussion about swapped in motors and what not, I started to contemplate on why I have never really deeply thought about swapping in a motor into my car.
As of the current, I have a 91 RS with the 305 TBI engine in it....yes the engine doesn't produce gobs of hp unless you dump money into, yes its pretty slow in stock form, but yes I still thought it was a great engine that put up with my crap ton of abuse on it (I try and get the most out of what I can)
Anywho, there are several options I can consider, I have been shopping around for an LS1 car for quite sometime, in my area they are ridiculously overpriced, and everyone seems to think they can charge 20k for a mint Trans Am and get away with it. I say nay, you can't do that and its unacceptable.
The options I am considering is actually swapping in either a 350 TPI L98 5.7 Liter monster of an engine or perhaps picking up a nice juicy 350 LT1 as well?
I have seen online some of the LT1 motors people swap into their cars, and it seems like almost a direct fit minus the a/c components. The good thing about swapping in a 350 L98 is that its pretty much just a drop in and go motor, I can retain my a/c setup (which I need) all I have to do is beef up the differential with 3.73s or better and get a stronger fuel pump. All in all, the 350 TPIs if you shop around are pretty easy to come by cheap. For instance online I found a 350 TPI for about 800 bucks I believe and it only had 62k miles...not bad, it also came out of an 88' vette which is pretty cool heh. Another big plus to this is that I have the F41 suspension backage (Z28 suspension) in my car, so I don't have to work on the suspension much (although it would be a good thing either way) The downfall to this, I don't know a whole lot about the 350 TPIs, I know they have come in some 3rd gen Z28s and Trans Ams, I know they are vette motors (which is a big advantage to me) but what I don't know is how strong they really are (by strong I mean, how reliable are they, do they break down often, can I put abuse on it and know that it will be ok) As far as hp numbers, I have heard that a good running 350 TPI can have anywhere from 245-260hp and like I heard about 320 ft lbs of torque. I have the 700 R4 tranny to go with the engine as well, but eventually I would like to swap out the 700R4 for a beefier T56 manual transmission, cause I am a sucker for manuals. Another disadvantage I may have, is that because I dont know a whole lot about 350 TPIs, I could easily get scammed into buying one, when really its a 305 LB9...both engines look exactly alike from the outside, its hard to tell if the engine I would be buying is indeed a 350 TPI and not a 305 TPI.
Another option to consider is a 350 LT1, LT1s in my eyes are great motors, they're somewhat easy to work on, they are pretty powerful stock form and if there is any motor than can take serious abuse its probably this motor, in other words, I have learned that if you take care of this motor, oh my goodness it shall take care of you. And this is coming from a major LS1 geek too. I have worked on LT1s before in the past, although the engine is a bit more complicate and tight spaced to work on then a 305 engine, it could be alot worse. The aftermarket for performance on these engines is outstanding, anything I want done to the engine I could basically find it. The good side is that they are pretty cheap, I have searched online Ebay auctions, found some LT1s with about 80k miles on the odometer (would prefer less but, I guess I can't be picky) running for about 1200 dollars complete set up...I have also seen some combo deals with auto trannies for about 1800 dollars but, again I don't want an automatic transmission. The T56s seem harder to come by with an LT1 lately.
Anyway, LT1 motors aren't really that expensive, I expect to pay around 4k to fully swap either motor into my car, either way I know it wont be cheap. Alot of people who have swapped in LT1s into their third gens seem to be extremely pleased with the results, being able to pull in a 1/4 mile time of like 13.8 stock seeing as how the third gen weigh a bit less than the 4th gens do. The downfall to the LT1 swap is, I have to do alot more but I am not sure as to what. I am sure I have to work with my suspension a little bit, I have to get an entirely new exhaust set up. and I am probably missing a few more very important things.
That pretty much sums up the end of the deal, the more I think about the swap the more I wanna do it, but I wanna do it with no regrets. I love the way my car looks, and I am sure that if I dump 5k in total into the car, I can get it to look really nice again. The other option besides engine swapping is to just buy an entirely new car altogether. For some reason, I find that the firebird formulas are alot easier to come by with manuals and for a damn good price as well. There's a local guy in town who is selling his white 96' formula with T-tops, and 6spd manual for about 6200 dollars I believe it has 73k miles. There's another guy who is selling his 96k mile one for 4200 dollars but thats a bit too high of mileage for me.
Another advantage to swapping in a motor, is that my insurance company will still think its a regular RS which can be a pretty good way to bypass any spikes in insurance costs...
What do you guys think? Yay or Nay for the engine swap?
So yeah, after my friends and I got into a deep discussion about swapped in motors and what not, I started to contemplate on why I have never really deeply thought about swapping in a motor into my car.
As of the current, I have a 91 RS with the 305 TBI engine in it....yes the engine doesn't produce gobs of hp unless you dump money into, yes its pretty slow in stock form, but yes I still thought it was a great engine that put up with my crap ton of abuse on it (I try and get the most out of what I can)
Anywho, there are several options I can consider, I have been shopping around for an LS1 car for quite sometime, in my area they are ridiculously overpriced, and everyone seems to think they can charge 20k for a mint Trans Am and get away with it. I say nay, you can't do that and its unacceptable.
The options I am considering is actually swapping in either a 350 TPI L98 5.7 Liter monster of an engine or perhaps picking up a nice juicy 350 LT1 as well?
I have seen online some of the LT1 motors people swap into their cars, and it seems like almost a direct fit minus the a/c components. The good thing about swapping in a 350 L98 is that its pretty much just a drop in and go motor, I can retain my a/c setup (which I need) all I have to do is beef up the differential with 3.73s or better and get a stronger fuel pump. All in all, the 350 TPIs if you shop around are pretty easy to come by cheap. For instance online I found a 350 TPI for about 800 bucks I believe and it only had 62k miles...not bad, it also came out of an 88' vette which is pretty cool heh. Another big plus to this is that I have the F41 suspension backage (Z28 suspension) in my car, so I don't have to work on the suspension much (although it would be a good thing either way) The downfall to this, I don't know a whole lot about the 350 TPIs, I know they have come in some 3rd gen Z28s and Trans Ams, I know they are vette motors (which is a big advantage to me) but what I don't know is how strong they really are (by strong I mean, how reliable are they, do they break down often, can I put abuse on it and know that it will be ok) As far as hp numbers, I have heard that a good running 350 TPI can have anywhere from 245-260hp and like I heard about 320 ft lbs of torque. I have the 700 R4 tranny to go with the engine as well, but eventually I would like to swap out the 700R4 for a beefier T56 manual transmission, cause I am a sucker for manuals. Another disadvantage I may have, is that because I dont know a whole lot about 350 TPIs, I could easily get scammed into buying one, when really its a 305 LB9...both engines look exactly alike from the outside, its hard to tell if the engine I would be buying is indeed a 350 TPI and not a 305 TPI.
Another option to consider is a 350 LT1, LT1s in my eyes are great motors, they're somewhat easy to work on, they are pretty powerful stock form and if there is any motor than can take serious abuse its probably this motor, in other words, I have learned that if you take care of this motor, oh my goodness it shall take care of you. And this is coming from a major LS1 geek too. I have worked on LT1s before in the past, although the engine is a bit more complicate and tight spaced to work on then a 305 engine, it could be alot worse. The aftermarket for performance on these engines is outstanding, anything I want done to the engine I could basically find it. The good side is that they are pretty cheap, I have searched online Ebay auctions, found some LT1s with about 80k miles on the odometer (would prefer less but, I guess I can't be picky) running for about 1200 dollars complete set up...I have also seen some combo deals with auto trannies for about 1800 dollars but, again I don't want an automatic transmission. The T56s seem harder to come by with an LT1 lately.
Anyway, LT1 motors aren't really that expensive, I expect to pay around 4k to fully swap either motor into my car, either way I know it wont be cheap. Alot of people who have swapped in LT1s into their third gens seem to be extremely pleased with the results, being able to pull in a 1/4 mile time of like 13.8 stock seeing as how the third gen weigh a bit less than the 4th gens do. The downfall to the LT1 swap is, I have to do alot more but I am not sure as to what. I am sure I have to work with my suspension a little bit, I have to get an entirely new exhaust set up. and I am probably missing a few more very important things.
That pretty much sums up the end of the deal, the more I think about the swap the more I wanna do it, but I wanna do it with no regrets. I love the way my car looks, and I am sure that if I dump 5k in total into the car, I can get it to look really nice again. The other option besides engine swapping is to just buy an entirely new car altogether. For some reason, I find that the firebird formulas are alot easier to come by with manuals and for a damn good price as well. There's a local guy in town who is selling his white 96' formula with T-tops, and 6spd manual for about 6200 dollars I believe it has 73k miles. There's another guy who is selling his 96k mile one for 4200 dollars but thats a bit too high of mileage for me.
Another advantage to swapping in a motor, is that my insurance company will still think its a regular RS which can be a pretty good way to bypass any spikes in insurance costs...
What do you guys think? Yay or Nay for the engine swap?
08-12-2006, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 91ChevyRS
Anywho, there are several options I can consider, I have been shopping around for an LS1 car for quite sometime, in my area they are ridiculously overpriced, and everyone seems to think they can charge 20k for a mint Trans Am and get away with it. I say nay, you can't do that and its unacceptable.
08-12-2006, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by BrandonDrecksage
lol...well if they're getting the money..I guess they can do it..and its acceptable...lol. screw the tpi...atleast get a lt1. Doing this swap is all about how involved you want to get. you could put in a stock lt1 or ls1 and have a pretty fast car, but if you want to modify it...you should look at both motors and see what they offer. The lt1 will be cheaper...and it seems parts for them..like stroker motors and such are cheap too, but one of the down sides is the extra weight from the lt1 motor. Another thing is that you will NEVER get the money you put into the car back if you ever sell it.
an LS1 swap in my car would be the definition of complete awesomeness...I would be easily a high 12 second car if I had done the swap correctly and efficiently (this is all of course on an entirely built suspension)
I understand the extra weight of the LT1 would be a downfall as well, but if I am gonna spend that much money on swapping an LS1 motor into my car, I'd rather it be a safe bet and just get the car that was built for the LS1...Trans Am or Z28.
I figured that if I do an LT1 swap into my car, it would probably be around 5k in total costs and what not...that's perhaps worst case scenario. an LT1 powered RS would give me another 5 years of pleasant service (perhaps even more) then down the road I can sell it and get the one car that defines speed (and my dream car) and that car is a C5 Z06.
Still not sure...anyone else?
08-13-2006, 09:43 AM
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For thirdgen advice I'd go to thirdgen.org, you can have a 12sec smog legal car even in SoCal.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/so...lifornia-area/
But if you really want an LS1 buy a car that already has one and save the swap hassle and expense. Be patient and you'll find a good deal.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/so...lifornia-area/
But if you really want an LS1 buy a car that already has one and save the swap hassle and expense. Be patient and you'll find a good deal.
08-14-2006, 12:06 AM
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I thought 305's were all iron? LT1's are iron block, aluminum head...why would it be gaining weight? I say you should keep your RS and do an LT1 or an LS1. If your wanting an LS1, put one in your third gen. It'l be faster than the ls1 f-bods. I guess it depends how mechanicly inclined you are. I'm not really sure why people are saying to avoid the expense of the LS1 swapped 3rd gen. It'l be cheaper than buying an LS1 car.....As for the hassle of building it, your right, if you think it is a hassle than it is. If you think it is fun like I do, than it is.Either way, good luck!
08-14-2006, 01:37 AM
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I am a regular on thirdgen.org, infact when I am not here I am mostly over there.
I need to read up on the swaps but the problem is, is TGO doesn't really have much info on swaps. What I need to know is what I else I need to change besides the motor and possibly tranny? I know there are other things that need to be swapped out...differential being a strong candidate.
I might swap out my old diff with a set of 3.42s and an LSD carrier...the 2.73s do nothing much for me except make me hate myself for when I want to punch it...
I need to read up on the swaps but the problem is, is TGO doesn't really have much info on swaps. What I need to know is what I else I need to change besides the motor and possibly tranny? I know there are other things that need to be swapped out...differential being a strong candidate.
I might swap out my old diff with a set of 3.42s and an LSD carrier...the 2.73s do nothing much for me except make me hate myself for when I want to punch it...
08-14-2006, 02:29 AM
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I found this site awhile back......it will be helpfull to you..all kinds of conversion parts.
http://hawksthirdgenparts.com/index....S&Category=691
http://hawksthirdgenparts.com/index....S&Category=691
