K&N Filter Cleaner and Oil
01-04-2010 | 09:46 PM
#21
I can tell you that if you run a k&n or other oiled type air filter BMW it'll void the warranty on the MAF.
I have a K&N cold air kit on my 94 (got cheap off ebay) and have had no problems with it but i dont have a MAF. Now i did put a CAI on my dads 02 2500hd 6.0L and it made the truck surge. Took it off put the factory on and it was smooth as glass. Bought it off ebay for 30 bucks (mispelled listing) sold it 6 mths later for 100 bucks. haveing these kits on he trucks yeilded no real mpg gain or seat of pants power. it does create a nice sucking sound when on the throttle so now i can phisically see the gas gauge move toward E when WOT.
I have a K&N cold air kit on my 94 (got cheap off ebay) and have had no problems with it but i dont have a MAF. Now i did put a CAI on my dads 02 2500hd 6.0L and it made the truck surge. Took it off put the factory on and it was smooth as glass. Bought it off ebay for 30 bucks (mispelled listing) sold it 6 mths later for 100 bucks. haveing these kits on he trucks yeilded no real mpg gain or seat of pants power. it does create a nice sucking sound when on the throttle so now i can phisically see the gas gauge move toward E when WOT.
01-05-2010 | 12:59 AM
#22
to the OP instead of reoiling your current filter, ebay sells blue air filters for just a little bit more than the cost of the reoiling kit. Accel makes them. they claim it will filter particles as small as 2.8 microns. to give you an idea of how small that is a blood cell is 8 microns wide, and a human hair is 50 microns wide. K&N has around the same filtering capability.
01-05-2010 | 01:00 AM
#23
I'm going to say it again: "....supposedly the special filter media, and the special oil does this, that and the other thing, but quite frankly I don't believe any of it. Unless you had some electronic, hyper-magnetic, Star Trek s**t going on, there's no way an air filter with oil on it is going to let in more air while keeping more dirt out, which is what K&N claims to do...."
01-05-2010 | 06:07 AM
#24
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Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Tulsa, OK
I agree completely that the currently available data doesn't show much that you can rely on beyond anecdotal evidence, and is therefore pretty meaningless.
I'd sure like to see some hard evidence one way or the other.
I'd sure like to see some hard evidence one way or the other.
01-05-2010 | 09:34 AM
#25
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Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Tulsa, OK
OK, after a bit of research I've found some hard evidence.
The currently applicable testing standard for engine air filters is ISO 5011/SAE J726. Here are the test results of some typical filters for a Chevy Duramax diesel. I know, I know...that's not an LS/LT, but cut some slack here guys. All engines, like all people, breath the same air. The important part is that it's hard data about paper and or oiled foam filters. In a nutshell, the oiled foam filters don't do as well in a filtering capacity as compared to pleated paper - at least not in the K&N iteration.
Also, the thread on the diesel site is HUGE (41 pages). I've included a link if anyone wants to read the whole thing.
Here's the data in a nutshell:
"The following is the complete test results. In order of rank from BEST performance to WORST in the categories of FILTERING EFFICIENCY, FLOW RESTRICTION, DIRT HOLDING CAPACITY and TOTAL DIRT PASSING THE FILTER DURING TEST.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPICER
In the order of filtering efficiency the results are:
FILTER % Efficiency
AC Delco OE 99.93%
Baldwin 99.72%
No name filter (made for gas engine, 1/3 less pleats) 99.32%
AFE ProGuard 7 (73-10062), panel filter 99.23%
WIX/Napa 99.03%
Purolator 98.73%
Amsoil, new style 98.63%
UNI 97.93%
K&N 96.80%
Additionally, these 2 were tested using FINE test dust. The K&N was cleaned and retested, the AFE was the conical version:
K&N 89.85%
AFE Conical 92.33%
FLOW RESTRICTION FROM BEST TO WORST:
FILTER RESTRICTION in Inches H2O
K&N 4.54
Mystery bargain filter 4.78
AFE Pro Guard 7 Panel 4.99
Purolator 5.05
WIX/Napa 5.06
UNI 5.40
Baldwin 5.71
Amsoil 5.88
AC Delco &nb"
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...ax+Air+Filters
Based on what is known of various oil filters by these same makers with their products that are specific to the LS/LT world, I'd expect to see similar results extrapolating this data to our air filters.
It's also obvious that you can't have it all, you either get excellent filtering or super air flow. The question you have to ask yourself is how much dirt in your engine are you willing to tolerate? The pro racers, with really deep pockets thanks to mega-dollar sponsorships don't care. They aren't buying engines out of their own pockets, regardless of what happens. Joe Lunchbucket is another matter entirely. Personally, I'll gladly sacrifice a few CFM if I can make an engine that I can probably only afford to build once in my life last a few more miles.
The currently applicable testing standard for engine air filters is ISO 5011/SAE J726. Here are the test results of some typical filters for a Chevy Duramax diesel. I know, I know...that's not an LS/LT, but cut some slack here guys. All engines, like all people, breath the same air. The important part is that it's hard data about paper and or oiled foam filters. In a nutshell, the oiled foam filters don't do as well in a filtering capacity as compared to pleated paper - at least not in the K&N iteration.
Also, the thread on the diesel site is HUGE (41 pages). I've included a link if anyone wants to read the whole thing.
Here's the data in a nutshell:
"The following is the complete test results. In order of rank from BEST performance to WORST in the categories of FILTERING EFFICIENCY, FLOW RESTRICTION, DIRT HOLDING CAPACITY and TOTAL DIRT PASSING THE FILTER DURING TEST.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPICER
In the order of filtering efficiency the results are:
FILTER % Efficiency
AC Delco OE 99.93%
Baldwin 99.72%
No name filter (made for gas engine, 1/3 less pleats) 99.32%
AFE ProGuard 7 (73-10062), panel filter 99.23%
WIX/Napa 99.03%
Purolator 98.73%
Amsoil, new style 98.63%
UNI 97.93%
K&N 96.80%
Additionally, these 2 were tested using FINE test dust. The K&N was cleaned and retested, the AFE was the conical version:
K&N 89.85%
AFE Conical 92.33%
FLOW RESTRICTION FROM BEST TO WORST:
FILTER RESTRICTION in Inches H2O
K&N 4.54
Mystery bargain filter 4.78
AFE Pro Guard 7 Panel 4.99
Purolator 5.05
WIX/Napa 5.06
UNI 5.40
Baldwin 5.71
Amsoil 5.88
AC Delco &nb"
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...ax+Air+Filters
Based on what is known of various oil filters by these same makers with their products that are specific to the LS/LT world, I'd expect to see similar results extrapolating this data to our air filters.
It's also obvious that you can't have it all, you either get excellent filtering or super air flow. The question you have to ask yourself is how much dirt in your engine are you willing to tolerate? The pro racers, with really deep pockets thanks to mega-dollar sponsorships don't care. They aren't buying engines out of their own pockets, regardless of what happens. Joe Lunchbucket is another matter entirely. Personally, I'll gladly sacrifice a few CFM if I can make an engine that I can probably only afford to build once in my life last a few more miles.
01-05-2010 | 09:51 AM
#26
OK, after a bit of research I've found some hard evidence.
The currently applicable testing standard for engine air filters is ISO 5011/SAE J726. Here are the test results of some typical filters for a Chevy Duramax diesel. I know, I know...that's not an LS/LT, but cut some slack here guys. All engines, like all people, breath the same air. The important part is that it's hard data about paper and or oiled foam filters. In a nutshell, the oiled foam filters don't do as well in a filtering capacity as compared to pleated paper - at least not in the K&N iteration.
Also, the thread on the diesel site is HUGE (41 pages). I've included a link if anyone wants to read the whole thing.
Here's the data in a nutshell:
"The following is the complete test results. In order of rank from BEST performance to WORST in the categories of FILTERING EFFICIENCY, FLOW RESTRICTION, DIRT HOLDING CAPACITY and TOTAL DIRT PASSING THE FILTER DURING TEST.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPICER
In the order of filtering efficiency the results are:
FILTER % Efficiency
AC Delco OE 99.93%
Baldwin 99.72%
No name filter (made for gas engine, 1/3 less pleats) 99.32%
AFE ProGuard 7 (73-10062), panel filter 99.23%
WIX/Napa 99.03%
Purolator 98.73%
Amsoil, new style 98.63%
UNI 97.93%
K&N 96.80%
Additionally, these 2 were tested using FINE test dust. The K&N was cleaned and retested, the AFE was the conical version:
K&N 89.85%
AFE Conical 92.33%
FLOW RESTRICTION FROM BEST TO WORST:
FILTER RESTRICTION in Inches H2O
K&N 4.54
Mystery bargain filter 4.78
AFE Pro Guard 7 Panel 4.99
Purolator 5.05
WIX/Napa 5.06
UNI 5.40
Baldwin 5.71
Amsoil 5.88
AC Delco &nb"
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...ax+Air+Filters
Based on what is known of various oil filters by these same makers with their products that are specific to the LS/LT world, I'd expect to see similar results extrapolating this data to our air filters.
It's also obvious that you can't have it all, you either get excellent filtering or super air flow. The question you have to ask yourself is how much dirt in your engine are you willing to tolerate? The pro racers, with really deep pockets thanks to mega-dollar sponsorships don't care. They aren't buying engines out of their own pockets, regardless of what happens. Joe Lunchbucket is another matter entirely. Personally, I'll gladly sacrifice a few CFM if I can make an engine that I can probably only afford to build once in my life last a few more miles.
The currently applicable testing standard for engine air filters is ISO 5011/SAE J726. Here are the test results of some typical filters for a Chevy Duramax diesel. I know, I know...that's not an LS/LT, but cut some slack here guys. All engines, like all people, breath the same air. The important part is that it's hard data about paper and or oiled foam filters. In a nutshell, the oiled foam filters don't do as well in a filtering capacity as compared to pleated paper - at least not in the K&N iteration.
Also, the thread on the diesel site is HUGE (41 pages). I've included a link if anyone wants to read the whole thing.
Here's the data in a nutshell:
"The following is the complete test results. In order of rank from BEST performance to WORST in the categories of FILTERING EFFICIENCY, FLOW RESTRICTION, DIRT HOLDING CAPACITY and TOTAL DIRT PASSING THE FILTER DURING TEST.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPICER
In the order of filtering efficiency the results are:
FILTER % Efficiency
AC Delco OE 99.93%
Baldwin 99.72%
No name filter (made for gas engine, 1/3 less pleats) 99.32%
AFE ProGuard 7 (73-10062), panel filter 99.23%
WIX/Napa 99.03%
Purolator 98.73%
Amsoil, new style 98.63%
UNI 97.93%
K&N 96.80%
Additionally, these 2 were tested using FINE test dust. The K&N was cleaned and retested, the AFE was the conical version:
K&N 89.85%
AFE Conical 92.33%
FLOW RESTRICTION FROM BEST TO WORST:
FILTER RESTRICTION in Inches H2O
K&N 4.54
Mystery bargain filter 4.78
AFE Pro Guard 7 Panel 4.99
Purolator 5.05
WIX/Napa 5.06
UNI 5.40
Baldwin 5.71
Amsoil 5.88
AC Delco &nb"
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...ax+Air+Filters
Based on what is known of various oil filters by these same makers with their products that are specific to the LS/LT world, I'd expect to see similar results extrapolating this data to our air filters.
It's also obvious that you can't have it all, you either get excellent filtering or super air flow. The question you have to ask yourself is how much dirt in your engine are you willing to tolerate? The pro racers, with really deep pockets thanks to mega-dollar sponsorships don't care. They aren't buying engines out of their own pockets, regardless of what happens. Joe Lunchbucket is another matter entirely. Personally, I'll gladly sacrifice a few CFM if I can make an engine that I can probably only afford to build once in my life last a few more miles.
We have a company....K&N...that has found a way to make money by producing this super-duper filter with special oils. Its the cleaning and oiling of that K&N that really attracts people to it, making people THINK they have a special product...and there you have it.... "marketing", which is what makes the money.
I've posted many times how many miles I have without any issues yet, and I'm sure people are sick of reading it...but I've always used paper filters. Bought a K&N and kept it for literally 1 week when I realized what a scam it was. I don't remember who it was, but I mailed it for free to a member on here that wanted it. I've got a shitload of miles on my car, and I certainly, partially, attribute that to having used paper filters.
And no matter how many times I mention it, it seems to get brushed under the rug. But even if the K&N is oiled perfectly by a K&N research engineer. The second you drive your car in any moisture, like a very misty rainfall or drizzle....you just removed some of that oil and it went right onto the MAF and into the engine. FACT. We have all seen many people on here complain of crappy running engines, loss of power, stumbling. Then someone asks..."Do you have a K&N?" Alot say, "YES, I do." BINGO....the oil coated the MAF. Not every time, but that the case alot of times.. Its proven to make MAF's dirty. So those cars are running LESS than optimal from the get-go after running in any rain or mositure...to include driving in fog, that will also send enough moisture through there to reactivate that oil and release it.
Not ragging on K&N users, but its pretty plain and simple that they DO NOT protect as good as paper filters. AND....for the power you gain from using a K&N, the 1 HP or whatever it MIGHT be, if any, its just not worth it to me, and then having to make sure its cleaned and re-oiled perfectly all the time.
.
01-06-2010 | 08:28 AM
#28
What kind of paper use in K&N air filter?Ok, I see whats going on with the grammar issue.
K&N doesn't use paper in there filters. They are built with a type of mesh that lasts a long time. BEFORE you spray the oil onto that mesh the space between all that mesh is "x". Then after you spray the oil onto the mesh, that oil is now coating all the mesh crossmembers. That coating has qa certain thickness to it when it dries. That takes up space between all the mesh crossmembers...and that is what catches more of the debris. But there is still a TON more space between the mesh in the properly oiled K&N then there is with a paper filter......therefore...more debris gets through.
This is how they also "CLAIM" you will make more horsepower with them...more airflow, more power
But what they fail to mention, which is on purpose, is that more air = more debris = more ring damage.
But if they told the truth...they wouldn't have a company.
Get a Fram paper filter and your all good. Or an AC Delco. When it comes to paper filters, they are all good.
.
K&N doesn't use paper in there filters. They are built with a type of mesh that lasts a long time. BEFORE you spray the oil onto that mesh the space between all that mesh is "x". Then after you spray the oil onto the mesh, that oil is now coating all the mesh crossmembers. That coating has qa certain thickness to it when it dries. That takes up space between all the mesh crossmembers...and that is what catches more of the debris. But there is still a TON more space between the mesh in the properly oiled K&N then there is with a paper filter......therefore...more debris gets through.
This is how they also "CLAIM" you will make more horsepower with them...more airflow, more power
But what they fail to mention, which is on purpose, is that more air = more debris = more ring damage. But if they told the truth...they wouldn't have a company.
Get a Fram paper filter and your all good. Or an AC Delco. When it comes to paper filters, they are all good.
.
That's sucks..I always enjoy to read your (ls6427) posts...
Last nite, I went to Auto-Zone and Advance to see the air filter and now undersand what difference the filters....
Thanks
01-07-2010 | 03:30 PM
#29
i never knew any of this about K&N. So the cheap $15 paper filter is better then K&N for protection? i'm about to buy that but i just got the Slp Induction kit and it came with the filter 
01-08-2010 | 12:32 AM
#30
As far as most of us are concerned it's common sense. Letting in more air lets in more dirt. Unless you've got some electro-magnetic Harry Potter s**t going on, there's no way an oily filter is going to allow more airflow but yet filter out MORE dirt than a standard filter. B......S.......
01-08-2010 | 07:28 AM
#31
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
From: south jersey. again
Data? Numbers? Pictures? Anything to support the idea that K&N filters are good and paper filters "suck?"
I'm going to say it again: "....supposedly the special filter media, and the special oil does this, that and the other thing, but quite frankly I don't believe any of it. Unless you had some electronic, hyper-magnetic, Star Trek s**t going on, there's no way an air filter with oil on it is going to let in more air while keeping more dirt out, which is what K&N claims to do...."
I'm going to say it again: "....supposedly the special filter media, and the special oil does this, that and the other thing, but quite frankly I don't believe any of it. Unless you had some electronic, hyper-magnetic, Star Trek s**t going on, there's no way an air filter with oil on it is going to let in more air while keeping more dirt out, which is what K&N claims to do...."
i am not going to argue over this, i dont have any numbers, i can take pictures if you like i still have my camera. i do have over almost thirty years of driving over 80 different personal gm vehicles, mostly chevy. i have used k&n in some not all. i have built and installed engines in some, roughly 15. ive torn into the engines i built either after years of use or to install a cam or perf heads. this in no way makes me an expert, but i noticed no scarring of the cylinder walls or other engine componet. granted i did not use a gizmo from star trek or star wars but for me they work, i really dont have a problem with paper filters either, i have sold hundreds of them. the real fact is, you and i are just some guy sitting at computer typing something we have either read or where taught and believe to be true. some people swear by fram filters some hate them, its a choice.
01-08-2010 | 11:50 PM
#32
I'm not going to argue over it either, but common sense, which as my gf will tell you has very little to do with me, says that letting in more air will let in more dirt. You can't have one without the other, it's as simple as that; our being just guys typing on keyboards or being rocket scientists is irrelevant...
01-09-2010 | 10:27 AM
#33
Someone asks how to clean and oil a filter, and the rest is bashing the filter itself.
OP, you can clean the filter using regular liquid dish soap. Be sure when you clean it, to go from the inside out. Hosing it down with a water hose works best for me. Also, when you go to dry it, if you use an air compressor as I do, be sure and go from the inside out. Oil lightly, the filter should be pink, not blood red. Again, the liberal use of an air hose will remove most excess oil. I also find the aerosol can easier to use when wanting an even coating.
I pulled my engine out last summer and popped the heads. You can still see the factory honing marks on the cylinders after 40k with a K&N filter. I started running them in 1974, and I have never seen any such reported "damage" to any engine I have pulled. I currently have 4 vehicles - 2 cars, 2 bikes, all with K&Ns, none with any issues whatsoever. Total mileage, ~150k.
I guess YMMV, IDK.
OP, you can clean the filter using regular liquid dish soap. Be sure when you clean it, to go from the inside out. Hosing it down with a water hose works best for me. Also, when you go to dry it, if you use an air compressor as I do, be sure and go from the inside out. Oil lightly, the filter should be pink, not blood red. Again, the liberal use of an air hose will remove most excess oil. I also find the aerosol can easier to use when wanting an even coating.
I pulled my engine out last summer and popped the heads. You can still see the factory honing marks on the cylinders after 40k with a K&N filter. I started running them in 1974, and I have never seen any such reported "damage" to any engine I have pulled. I currently have 4 vehicles - 2 cars, 2 bikes, all with K&Ns, none with any issues whatsoever. Total mileage, ~150k.
I guess YMMV, IDK.
