LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Not good. Oil doesn't need to be stabilized, its a fluid. Never put anything at all into your oil, ever.

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2002SS#1811

No issues with RP or Shell here. I won't buy gas from BP after the **** storm they created and as far as RP I have not had a problem with it....

Element

iTrader: (5)

Buddy consistently ran cheap Sheetz oil (substitute whatever generic gas station oil is sold around you) and Motorcraft filters and it came out, every single 3000 mile oil change, black as pitch and smelled horrible. His oil pump eventually failed because it was completely clogged with sludge (this is with 3000 mile oil changes and basic highway commuting) and fragged the top end of the engine. He owned the truck for years and his maintenance schedule and oil/filter selection never changed, nor did his driving habits.







Aside from that little anecdote, UOAs are the only way to determine if a specific oil is good in a specific engine. You can rant and rave about how synthetic oils are "bullshit" and dumping any oil you want into an engine isn't going to change anything, but an objective analysis of a used oil sample proves that different oils cause different wear patterns in engines.

Regular oil and filter changes are the biggest part in keeping an engine running, yes, but to claim that "all oils are the same and synthetic is just marketing bullshit" contradicts scientific proof otherwise.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

He most definitely had another issue going on that he did not know about....most likely a bad PCV system and he never evacuated the many harnful toxins and moisture from the crankcase. Thats what causes sludge. There is nothing else that can cause oil to get sludgy. It just doesn't happen for no reason.

All I have is my 145,000 mile 427ci stroker engine that looks and runs like new. Thats alot of miles man. I've also had blow-by for the past few years and maybe the last 60,000 miles....just because of the nature of a 4.125 stroke crank in a short old style LS1 sleeve. And still.....my oil is nice and clean at 3,000 miles with blow-by.

So there was certainly something wrong with your friends engine......that mine is not experiencing.......because I have been using cheap *** NON-synthetic Castrol GTX 20w50 and Purolator filters for 8+ years. There is no cheaper oil I can find or I'd use it......

My engine is coming apart soon....it will look spotless inside. If cheap oil caused sludge...I'd have sludge.

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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

What would you rather bet on......real life engines out there running for 100,000+ miles on regular cheap crap oil........or an oil companies lab claiming things about their product so they can sell them to the public?

And I know there are independant labs that do tests also......they are all paid by oil companies somehow, some way.

Its like the GOT MILK commercials......they never say a brand to buy. Its for everyone out there to sell more MILK to the public.

I'd go with real life every time.

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Element

iTrader: (5)

So you have no proof that labs like Blackstone are paid by "big oil" to skew results in their favor, yet you're going to believe it, just because you think all oil is the same and scientific proof that shows otherwise must be lies?

Don't think I need to say anything else.

Oh, and as far as betting on stuff - I'll pay $20 more every 5000 miles when I do my oil changes for oils proven to perform well through UOAs from my engine, rather than cheap out and buy junk oil and running the risk of destroying an engine and spending a lifetime's worth of oil purchases getting the car fixed.

hitmanws6

iTrader: (20)

Aside from the Syn/Conventional Debate, OP your friends are somewhat right about RP. Like Mobil 1 it is a "thin" 30 weight and it often shears to a 20 weight. A lot of race shops also complain of it breaking down at high RPM (shearing). A thicker 30 weight such as German Castrol or Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra or a "thin" 40 weight (Royal Purple 5W-40 or Mobil 1 0W-40) will hold up much better under constant abuse. Personally I run German Castrol or 0W-40 Mobil 1. Because they are European Formulas they use a higher grade base stock than other off the shelf oils.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

And thats exactly what they want you to do. They have you believing that you MUST buy the more expensive oil to keep your engine running for a long time.

I have never done an oil analysis on any of my cars.....its a joke and a waste of time for a bunch of people with American made regular *** V8's running around thinking they have some kind of special exotic engine

Bottom line: You let me know when you have a stroker motor make 145,000 miles and still runs like new. And is spotless inside as far as this mysterious "sludge" that "you" see in engines. I never see it. Thats why I say real life is what I go with....because its real life. No bullshit labs to wonder about...to not really know what they are doing...to not have any control of their findings.

Oil analysis on the most basic type of engine made (GM V8)...thats some funny ****. If I bought an engine from a builder that I was worried so much about that I had to do friggin oil analysis on it to make sure its not gonna explode....I wouldn't be involved with having a built engine. I bought a 427ci stroker 8+ years ago....I change the oil, change the belts and fix little **** whenever it arises NOT associated with the engine itself. It has been 100% trouble free internally and will be until I decide to pull it out to replace it with something else. My oil changing practices are the reason why..........I keep the **** clean. Its not rocket science.......

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jam01

i never had a problem using r/p, and i never used shell gas on any kind of consistent routine that would show any kind of problems. i do know some stations buy what ever is on sale, so you may not be buying the brand advertised.

acceleration junky

I just want to make a note that "brand" name gas stations that sell "un-branded" gas do
exist. I'm just saying that knowing what you're actually putting in your tank can only help if you're concerned with the whole "brand" thing.

Element

iTrader: (5)

The labs do absolutely nothing to "prompt" people to buy the expensive oils. Lots of people get great UOA results from basic off-the-shelf dino oil. You're hunting for witches where none exist to try and validate your opinion on oil.

UOAs aren't a "special-engine only" thing - hell, I've got one being processed for my daily, which has an Ecotec 2.2L in it. It's just like using a generic hand-held tuner vs doing a full dyno-tune with LS1Edit or HPTuners - sure, both work, but one gives you much more information about what's going on and what might need to be changed. If I'm running Valvoline and getting bad wear levels in my UOAs, switch to Castrol and they come back great, it doesn't cost me anything to switch to Castrol and will quite likely extend the life of the engine by allowing less wear on bearing surfaces.

Your personal anecdotes aren't the end-all of how oil works in the real world, although you're sure acting like they are. If you've never seen sludge in your engine or had any problem running the cheapest oil available, great. Don't attempt to claim that no one else has ever seen sludge, or oil-related engine failures, simply because you haven't. Oh, and on a side note, stop acting like your 427 is some "special" engine. My LS1 isn't, my Ecotec isn't, your engine isn't. You keep touting the fact that it has 145k on it - great, my dad's work truck diesel has 750k+ on it, and it still runs fine. 145k on modern engines isn't ****.

You're completely missing the point of UOAs, but coming from a guy claiming that oil labs are in business to push expensive oils on people (without having any proof at all of such, let alone knowledge of what UOAs show), that's not surprising. Stick with your cheap oil and beliefs that anything resembling lab analysis is voodoo, and I'll stick with decent oil and scientific analyses, and everyone's happy.

Tommyv8

iTrader: (8)

My car has over 200k miles on it, probably more than any other car (at least LSx) in this thread and probably one of the higher-mileage ones on this whole site. I use whatever synthetic 5W-30 or 0W-30 oil is on sale (lately I've been using O'Reilly, $20 for 5 quarts and a filter) and I fill up at whatever gas station is convenient. Runs just fine, except for a slightly rough idle that I've had for about two years or so (cause unknown). It ran 12.7 @ 109 this year so it appears pretty healthy.

zachrywd_01TA

I love BP, one of the few stations that carry 93. **** the ocean, give me oil!!

Grimes

iTrader: (3)

All oil is not created equal, and it is just nonsense to say "oil is oil". I would agree that for probably a ton of the cars out there, there is no need for special synthetics. But for those who run extended oil change intervals or have very severe duty cycles, the right oil can be useful (not a waste of $$$).

White T/A WS6

I have questioned some of our engineers about using certain brands of oils, synthetic vs dino, etc. The response I hear over and over is change regularly and use a good filter. As far as brand of oil, their advice is to stick with one brand regardless of it being Amsoil or "gas station special". This is coming from the guys here at work who decide what oils we run in our multi million dollar machines. No surprise its just a Mobil synthetic and we change filters regularly and change the oil every 4-5 years on machines that run 24/7 365.

Chaotic Deconstruct

From what I have read from oil reviews and anaylsis over the years I have come to run German Castrol 0w30 and an Amsoil EaO64 Filter. It is the larger filter for the trucks instead of the regular one for our cars. It allows me the full 6 quarts. I have no lifter tick in the mornings and very, very do I have piston slap. My motor has 176,000 and change on it and it holds around 44psi at idle after its warmed up. Start up is around 60psi or so I believe. I change my oil every 7500 miles. It is exceptionally clean for the miles on this motor and the miles on the oil between changes. I daily drive this car in all weather and it always seems to preform what I need. This has been the oil and filter of my choice since 2005. Is it a fluke? I don't believe it is.

As for Royal Purple I hear that it is a great oil IF you change your oil and filter EVERY 3000 miles. Apparently it has really great additives compared to many synthetic oils, but the base blend is not a great as say Amsoil or German Castrol. This means it is great early on in the cycle of a motor which is why many people who are constantly tearing apart motors use it, thus all the advertising from race teams you see. The "moly" stories about RP are bogus. The moly content found in RP is organic and does not pose a risk of seperating from the oil itself. Redline actually has more moly in its oils than RP does but you never hear about it. RP and all other oil companies have worked very hard to attempt to stabalize moly content at high heat levels to keep it from seperating and letting the graphite like substance sheer other metal in the motor or clog up oil passageways. Moly (couple types of moly out there so as not to be complicated I just called it moly guys but you can look up the types if interested) is desinged for high pressure and will lubricate better than any other additive in known oil. RP should never be considered an extended mile oil though.

As for all oils being the same, they do all lubricate something, but their not the same. The base used in oils is important if you want a longer lasting oil. If you want a higher preforming oil then you probably want to find a nice additive ladden synthetic. Obviously if your looking for a DD car you might look for all of the above. GC has been shown to have a better base than Amsoil, RP, Redline, etc over and over. Even Amsoil published a chart of review featuring GC and they formed an opinion that the oils tied but since Amsoil was American they gave the sell campaign of how you could have the same preformance of the GC without having to purchase an non-American oil. The Kendall oil that comes out of Pennslyvania has been tested over and over and has been found to be one of the purest petroleum deposits ever found. Their "dino" oil a great alternative to whats out there in synthetic and could be a great oil if you can't or don't want to go to synthetic.

In the end only you can decide what works for you. If you are in Alaska and oil that someone might use in Houston is not going to be suitable for you probably. Take your time and make an educated decision.

98RedRocket

i got 216,000 miles on my camaro.....original motor and i run 10W40 valvoline high mileage.........i wish they would come out with a super high mileage

NC01TA

I wouldn't be quite as 'crude' as that. (Pun intended ).
I do agree about BP though. I love the 93 octane. I do NOT like Shell after two 'water in tank' related issues with two different cars, and at two different stations over the years. No more Shell.

zachrywd_01TA

ls1fag

Synthetic oil is not as susceptible to thermal and impact break down. That is, it retains its ability to lubricate a lot longer than conventional oil. Conventional oil breaks down more easily because it uses paraffin wax to give it, its multi-grade properties (ie. 5w-30). That is, that it works as a 5 weight oil when cold and a 30 weight when at operating temperature.

That being said there are different classes of synthetic, if I remember correctly class 4 and 5. A class 4 is still petroleum based and uses polymers for its dual weight properties. A class 5 is all polymer based and does not use paraffin wax. The part that breaks down in synthetic oils is mostly the detergents used to clean the engine. Last I checked the only class 5s on the market were, Royal Purple, Mobil 1 and Amsoil. This was a few years ago when I did a research paper on oil for a chemistry class, so I am not sure what has changed by now.

Also a lot of oils have stopped using as much zinc/phosphorous. zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate, (ZDDP). Which I am sure most of you know is great for flat tappet engines, but it is great for any engine. They have stopped using it as much because it harms catalytic converters (yes they are worried about the small amount of oil that is normally consumed in an engine that will pass through the catalytic converter). Again the oils with the highest ZDDP count in ppm was Amsoil, Royal Purple and Mobil 1 (VR1 racing oil and a few others but they are not synthetic).

Your typical economy filter is about a 30 micron filter, most of your premium filters are 15 micron. Moving from 30 to 15 micron filter is about a 70% reduction in wear, assuming they are using the same medium (paper, or paper, cellulose and fiberglass mesh) at the same efficiency rating. Mobil 1 and Bosch are both made by Champ. Those and the Pure One filter are 15-20 micron using paper, cellulose, and fiberglass mesh which gives them like a 97-98% efficiency which is good. Stay away from paper filters if you are worried that much about it. And supposedly Fram uses cardboard on their backing caps which again supposedly saturates with oil and allows small pieces of cardboard in your engine.

I will leave it at that, I am sure you can tell I could talk all day about this.