is anyone else amazed with the ls1 motor?
09-04-2011, 08:23 PM
#21
Apparently you guys dont see it as big picture as I do.
Its evolution. Quit looking for parts that are interchangeable from LS to LT, not what I said.
Seriously though. Start with a LT1, change the block from iron to aluminum. Add modern ignition. Make the manifolds bigger. Make the heads flow better. Change the firing order.
You now have an LS1. I consider most of those things to be subtle, you dont have to. Its not like they went from a 250cc two stroke to a 450 four stroke in 3 years....
Its evolution. Quit looking for parts that are interchangeable from LS to LT, not what I said.
Seriously though. Start with a LT1, change the block from iron to aluminum. Add modern ignition. Make the manifolds bigger. Make the heads flow better. Change the firing order.
You now have an LS1. I consider most of those things to be subtle, you dont have to. Its not like they went from a 250cc two stroke to a 450 four stroke in 3 years....
09-04-2011, 09:00 PM
#22
TECH Senior Member
Apparently you guys dont see it as big picture as I do.
Its evolution. Quit looking for parts that are interchangeable from LS to LT, not what I said.
Seriously though. Start with a LT1, change the block from iron to aluminum. Add modern ignition. Make the manifolds bigger. Make the heads flow better. Change the firing order.
You now have an LS1. I consider most of those things to be subtle, you dont have to. Its not like they went from a 250cc two stroke to a 450 four stroke in 3 years....
Its evolution. Quit looking for parts that are interchangeable from LS to LT, not what I said.
Seriously though. Start with a LT1, change the block from iron to aluminum. Add modern ignition. Make the manifolds bigger. Make the heads flow better. Change the firing order.
You now have an LS1. I consider most of those things to be subtle, you dont have to. Its not like they went from a 250cc two stroke to a 450 four stroke in 3 years....
Start with a GM V6, change the block to a V8, add different heads, intake, ignition, and its the same thing right?
The LS1 is totally different engine, the block design, heads, intake, overall everything. The actual displacement is different too (350ci vs 346ci).
Sure they are both pushrod engines that come out to be 5.7L, but thats where the similarities end.
09-04-2011, 11:56 PM
#25
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now if only gm now made a motor that would compete with the 750hp supersnake........the 6-7 psi that the ls9 does isnt enough.......how about some thicker liners and lets see some 14-16 psi..........that would give the supersnake a run......any idea how much boost the supersnake has?
09-06-2011, 08:58 PM
#26
TECH Senior Member
ADD much?
LS1 is an amazing motor but you cant really say that GM nailed it right out of the gates.
LS1 is just a Gen 2 LT1. GM learned a lot from computer based ignition, and injection. Building blocks. Compare the first 4.6 to the one in the 2010 Mustang GT...theres a little difference.
You also have to think about when they were designed. When did Ford start on the 4.6 and when did GM start on the LS1? Think about the computers available at the time to design these engines.
GM had a huge head start in that they used a traditional architecture. Coil packs, heads, aluminum vs iron, and other subtle changes is all GM did from Lt1 to Ls1. Not downplaying it but Ford went from a once carbed 5.0 to a DOHC V8 Fuel Injected. Im a GM fanboy through and through but Kudos to Ford for having the ***** to do a DOHC motor themselvs and stick with it. Much less throwing it in their most popular car.
LS1 is an amazing motor but you cant really say that GM nailed it right out of the gates.
LS1 is just a Gen 2 LT1. GM learned a lot from computer based ignition, and injection. Building blocks. Compare the first 4.6 to the one in the 2010 Mustang GT...theres a little difference.
You also have to think about when they were designed. When did Ford start on the 4.6 and when did GM start on the LS1? Think about the computers available at the time to design these engines.
GM had a huge head start in that they used a traditional architecture. Coil packs, heads, aluminum vs iron, and other subtle changes is all GM did from Lt1 to Ls1. Not downplaying it but Ford went from a once carbed 5.0 to a DOHC V8 Fuel Injected. Im a GM fanboy through and through but Kudos to Ford for having the ***** to do a DOHC motor themselvs and stick with it. Much less throwing it in their most popular car.
The LS1 is a major redesign, it is nothing like the LT1... the changes from LT1 to LS1 are anything but subtle... GM critically analyzed the SBC design and from a blank sheet came up with a new engine design.
Going from a distributor to coil packs is a major change.
GM considered designing the LS1 to have DOHC but the extra height would not fit the 1997 Corvette hood profile, so they decided instead to go with cam-in-block pushrod valvetrain.
It took more courage to design a new cam-in-block pushrod engine since everyone else were doing overhead-cam engines.
GM started designing the LS1 around 1988 to go into the 1997 Corvette.
GM was successfully doing electronic ignition and EFI back in the early 80's, they already had the know how, they just needed PCM technology with lots of CPU ability (which they already had for the LT1) for doing things other than running the engine, such as emissions control, misfire detection, and transmission control.
Ford designing the 4.6 with SOHC and DOHC meant that changing cam now cost 2x or 4x.
Also, Ford did not go from the carb'd 5.0 straight to the 4.6... they added electronic ignition and EFI to the 5.0 back in the 80's, and the 5.0 in this form was very successful.
If you are a GM fan you have neglected to read GM history.
Last edited by joecar; 09-06-2011 at 09:14 PM.
09-06-2011, 09:56 PM
#28
all other statements are correct except these two.....not nitpicking or trying to be right,but yea gm was ready to do a dohc motor. but what they did in 1991-1992, was took two identical looking m6 black corvettes to a set of ground outside somewhere......except one vette had an LT5 ohc motor, while the other had the slightly less powerful LT4. they brung some gm executives out andhad them drive the two cars, not knowing the differences between them.....all the executives felt like the LT4 had a better response, andthat the LT5 almost seemed like it was a turbo car, and had to build up slightly before putting you in the seat...........thats when they decided to builda pushrod motor..........a sohc motor fit in the vette, so im not sure why a dohc wouldnt. my source is an ls1 book written by joseph potak i think.
09-07-2011, 01:18 AM
#29
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The LSx motors are top notch. still.
The LT's are cool but the LSx's are just better. Work on a optispark and then talk.
The LSx is really one of the best motors yet. You see them in everything, it's like a new gofast standard.
The LT's are cool but the LSx's are just better. Work on a optispark and then talk.
The LSx is really one of the best motors yet. You see them in everything, it's like a new gofast standard.
09-07-2011, 01:43 AM
#31
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Huh...!?!?
The LS1 is a major redesign, it is nothing like the LT1... the changes from LT1 to LS1 are anything but subtle... GM critically analyzed the SBC design and from a blank sheet came up with a new engine design.
Going from a distributor to coil packs is a major change.
GM considered designing the LS1 to have DOHC but the extra height would not fit the 1997 Corvette hood profile, so they decided instead to go with cam-in-block pushrod valvetrain.
It took more courage to design a new cam-in-block pushrod engine since everyone else were doing overhead-cam engines.
GM started designing the LS1 around 1988 to go into the 1997 Corvette.
GM was successfully doing electronic ignition and EFI back in the early 80's, they already had the know how, they just needed PCM technology with lots of CPU ability (which they already had for the LT1) for doing things other than running the engine, such as emissions control, misfire detection, and transmission control.
Ford designing the 4.6 with SOHC and DOHC meant that changing cam now cost 2x or 4x.
Also, Ford did not go from the carb'd 5.0 straight to the 4.6... they added electronic ignition and EFI to the 5.0 back in the 80's, and the 5.0 in this form was very successful.
If you are a GM fan you have neglected to read GM history.
The LS1 is a major redesign, it is nothing like the LT1... the changes from LT1 to LS1 are anything but subtle... GM critically analyzed the SBC design and from a blank sheet came up with a new engine design.
Going from a distributor to coil packs is a major change.
GM considered designing the LS1 to have DOHC but the extra height would not fit the 1997 Corvette hood profile, so they decided instead to go with cam-in-block pushrod valvetrain.
It took more courage to design a new cam-in-block pushrod engine since everyone else were doing overhead-cam engines.
GM started designing the LS1 around 1988 to go into the 1997 Corvette.
GM was successfully doing electronic ignition and EFI back in the early 80's, they already had the know how, they just needed PCM technology with lots of CPU ability (which they already had for the LT1) for doing things other than running the engine, such as emissions control, misfire detection, and transmission control.
Ford designing the 4.6 with SOHC and DOHC meant that changing cam now cost 2x or 4x.
Also, Ford did not go from the carb'd 5.0 straight to the 4.6... they added electronic ignition and EFI to the 5.0 back in the 80's, and the 5.0 in this form was very successful.
If you are a GM fan you have neglected to read GM history.
09-07-2011, 01:46 AM
#32
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Apparently you guys dont see it as big picture as I do.
Its evolution. Quit looking for parts that are interchangeable from LS to LT, not what I said.
Seriously though. Start with a LT1, change the block from iron to aluminum. Add modern ignition. Make the manifolds bigger. Make the heads flow better. Change the firing order.
You now have an LS1. I consider most of those things to be subtle, you dont have to. Its not like they went from a 250cc two stroke to a 450 four stroke in 3 years....
Its evolution. Quit looking for parts that are interchangeable from LS to LT, not what I said.
Seriously though. Start with a LT1, change the block from iron to aluminum. Add modern ignition. Make the manifolds bigger. Make the heads flow better. Change the firing order.
You now have an LS1. I consider most of those things to be subtle, you dont have to. Its not like they went from a 250cc two stroke to a 450 four stroke in 3 years....
