what oil to run.
06-23-2014, 09:04 PM
#101
Just ordered my blackstone oil analysis kit. I run Mobil 1 0w-40 on my car because I like the idea of it being thinner on cold startups, while a little thicker when hot. I also read that mobil 1 5w-30 is more like a 5w-25 so the 40 is the next step up so that's another reason. I also have like 6 cases in my garage that I got for free lol.
Thinking about a 5w-40 next change, but that's diesel oil so I'm unsure what the differences are and if it's safe.
Chris,
Thinking about a 5w-40 next change, but that's diesel oil so I'm unsure what the differences are and if it's safe.
Chris,
Some 5W-40s made for late model (2009 and up?) diesels are called "low SAPS" oils, which are designed to not clog up their particulate filters and other emissions equipment.
These are "safe" for gasoline engines, BUT, they do have reduced levels of ZDDP, and even TBN building calcium and boron, as well as other reduced additives in their add pack.
So I would stick with the M1 0W-40 over these.
A NON-low SAPS, older style, 5W-40 is the one you want to use, but VERY few are as great an oil as the M1 0W-40 you are already using, and some might actually be too thick for a standard clearance built/factory stock LS1, except for maybe the extreme southern tier states in the summer.
These are "safe" for gasoline engines, BUT, they do have reduced levels of ZDDP, and even TBN building calcium and boron, as well as other reduced additives in their add pack.
So I would stick with the M1 0W-40 over these.
A NON-low SAPS, older style, 5W-40 is the one you want to use, but VERY few are as great an oil as the M1 0W-40 you are already using, and some might actually be too thick for a standard clearance built/factory stock LS1, except for maybe the extreme southern tier states in the summer.
Example: most VOAs of Rotella T6 5w40 show zinc and phosphorous contents in excess of 1100-1200ppm. Exceeding the average for Mobil 1 0w40, which is usually around 900-1000ppm of zinc and phosphorous.
In short, an API SL or SM diesel 40-grade, low-SAPS or otherwise, should have more ZDDP than an API SN strictly gasoline 40-grade like Mobil 0w40.
Last edited by Wheelman916; 06-23-2014 at 11:33 PM.
06-24-2014, 07:56 PM
#102
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Diesel oil is usually completely safe. The popular brands like Rotella and Chevron Delo carry dual API certification for use in diesel and gasoline applications... Meaning they meet or exceed the required characteristics and performance standards of both certifications. Diesel oil tends to be pretty robust and very cheap for the quality you get.
Never assume that a Low-SAPS oil will have insufficient zinc or phosphorous. Acceptable SAPS levels are different for diesel specifications. Newer low-SAPS diesel oils still have more zinc, sulfur, phosphorus, and ash than a gasoline oil meeting ILLSAC GF-4. A Virgin Oil Analysis will reveal the true content. Also, most diesel 5w40s only meet API SL or SM... Which has a higher threshold for ZDDP content than the latest API SN requirements/restrictions.
Example: most VOAs of Rotella T6 5w40 show zinc and phosphorous contents in excess of 1100-1200ppm. Exceeding the average for Mobil 1 0w40, which is usually around 900-1000ppm of zinc and phosphorous.
In short, an API SL or SM diesel 40-grade, low-SAPS or otherwise, should have more ZDDP than an API SN strictly gasoline 40-grade like Mobil 0w40.
Never assume that a Low-SAPS oil will have insufficient zinc or phosphorous. Acceptable SAPS levels are different for diesel specifications. Newer low-SAPS diesel oils still have more zinc, sulfur, phosphorus, and ash than a gasoline oil meeting ILLSAC GF-4. A Virgin Oil Analysis will reveal the true content. Also, most diesel 5w40s only meet API SL or SM... Which has a higher threshold for ZDDP content than the latest API SN requirements/restrictions.
Example: most VOAs of Rotella T6 5w40 show zinc and phosphorous contents in excess of 1100-1200ppm. Exceeding the average for Mobil 1 0w40, which is usually around 900-1000ppm of zinc and phosphorous.
In short, an API SL or SM diesel 40-grade, low-SAPS or otherwise, should have more ZDDP than an API SN strictly gasoline 40-grade like Mobil 0w40.
It HAS been shown that sky high levels (>2000 ppm) of ZDDP can become corrosive to bearings and other engine parts, besides it's destruction of catcon wash coats.
Whereas soluble moly (and boron, titanium, etc.) have NOT been shown to have this caustic property, even in crazy ppm levels, and provide great(er) anti-wear and anti-friction properties.
yes I know that ZDDP and moly and other AW/AF additive compounds can be synergistic and 'help each other out' with the friction and wear reduction, but one does not NEED insane levels of ZDDP in order for this to occur (i.e.; M1 0W-40's, or even their 5W-50';s 1000-1100 ppm ZDDP levels are FINE, and more than enough, especially when combined with the moly and boron levels found in those oils.
).
06-30-2014, 12:12 AM
#103
This is all true, BUT, the question still remains as to whether or not more than 900-1100 ppm of ZDDP is actually needed for an LSx of ANY; state/tune/build, or valve train type.
It HAS been shown that sky high levels (>2000 ppm) of ZDDP can become corrosive to bearings and other engine parts, besides it's destruction of catcon wash coats.
Whereas soluble moly (and boron, titanium, etc.) have NOT been shown to have this caustic property, even in crazy ppm levels, and provide great(er) anti-wear and anti-friction properties.
yes I know that ZDDP and moly and other AW/AF additive compounds can be synergistic and 'help each other out' with the friction and wear reduction, but one does not NEED insane levels of ZDDP in order for this to occur (i.e.; M1 0W-40's, or even their 5W-50';s 1000-1100 ppm ZDDP levels are FINE, and more than enough, especially when combined with the moly and boron levels found in those oils. ).
It HAS been shown that sky high levels (>2000 ppm) of ZDDP can become corrosive to bearings and other engine parts, besides it's destruction of catcon wash coats.
Whereas soluble moly (and boron, titanium, etc.) have NOT been shown to have this caustic property, even in crazy ppm levels, and provide great(er) anti-wear and anti-friction properties.
yes I know that ZDDP and moly and other AW/AF additive compounds can be synergistic and 'help each other out' with the friction and wear reduction, but one does not NEED insane levels of ZDDP in order for this to occur (i.e.; M1 0W-40's, or even their 5W-50';s 1000-1100 ppm ZDDP levels are FINE, and more than enough, especially when combined with the moly and boron levels found in those oils.
).
05-27-2015, 10:35 PM
#104
Does anyone know what the mileage guarantee is with the Royal Purple (fully synthetic) 5W-30 line?
Mobil 1 Extended Performance has a 15k mile guarantee, and Amsoil Signature Series a 25k mile guarantee, but I haven't been able to find anything on Royal Purple.
Thanks in advance.
Mobil 1 Extended Performance has a 15k mile guarantee, and Amsoil Signature Series a 25k mile guarantee, but I haven't been able to find anything on Royal Purple.
Thanks in advance.
05-28-2015, 11:27 AM
#105
TECH Enthusiast
This guy has ranked over 100 oils by wear protection test results he's done.
http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013...-test-ranking/
That link has been posted on here a time or two but I skimmed through and didn't see it in this thread. It's long but worth the read. Here are the high lights I made note of.
being synthetic alone doesn't make an oil any better than conventional as far as wear protection is concerned.
Diesel and break in oils are ranked low.
More ZDDP is not necessarily better and too much is bad
Zinc additives ruin oil
“Oil extreme concentrate” is an additive that improves oil wear protection and doesn’t contain zinc, but for the cost you probably better off choosing a high ranked oil.
oil viscosity plays no particular role in an oil’s wear protection capability.
http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013...-test-ranking/
That link has been posted on here a time or two but I skimmed through and didn't see it in this thread. It's long but worth the read. Here are the high lights I made note of.
being synthetic alone doesn't make an oil any better than conventional as far as wear protection is concerned.
Diesel and break in oils are ranked low.
More ZDDP is not necessarily better and too much is bad
Zinc additives ruin oil
“Oil extreme concentrate” is an additive that improves oil wear protection and doesn’t contain zinc, but for the cost you probably better off choosing a high ranked oil.
oil viscosity plays no particular role in an oil’s wear protection capability.
While the failure test used above is sort of extreme, it did convincingly show that excessive levels of Zinc led to bearing failures during that test method. And those levels were 1550-1775 ppm and higher. On a sample of 5w-30 Synthetics, everyone is using 800-900 ppm Zinc. There is little difference in the overall ingredients. Though a couple of brands differ quite a bit on the Mg, Ca and Boron.
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/...sallfinal.html
Last edited by Firebrian; 05-28-2015 at 11:34 AM.
