Any such thing as too cool a thermostat?
#21
how long the coolant spends in the radiator is a function of water pump speed, and length of the tubes making up the radiator. if coolant flows too fast and does not having enough time in the radiator to release enough heat, then you either need to increase the delta-t (temp difference between coolant temp and outside air temp) and/or move more air thru the radiator to make up for that. when the delta-t is not enough (coolant temp is 212° and outside air thru radiator is ??? 170°F or more?) and you cannot push enough air thru radiator to remove the required amount of heat... only then is your radiator size too small. 220° coolant vs 120° outside air is a delta of 100°F, that is more than enough in nearly all conditions and i would bet $1 no one after year 2000 has designed a car with too small a radiator. if there are overheat problems, its for other reasons.
#22
a proportionally smaller amount of heat is carried out of the engine by the faster moving coolant
http://www.pmmag.com/articles/85239-...fast?v=preview
http://www.hpacmag.com/features/is-t...ving-too-fast/
the same concern is often asked in heating/plumbing regarding hydronic heating and whether the water circulation is too fast thru your boiler to pick up enough heat, then too fast thru your baseboards to release it.
I agree with you that "faster flow should not cause overheating [in car engine]"
but i disagree with a "proportionally smaller amount of heat is carried away from the engine". faster flow will carry away more heat, and is described well in that linked article.
#23
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,396
Likes: 1,818
From: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
...and i would bet $1 no one after year 2000 has designed a car with too small a radiator. if there are overheat problems, its for other reasons.
i think you guys are silly for wanting to upgrade the oem ls1 radiator to the bigger lt1 version or whatever, thinking that the oem ls1 radiator does not have enough cooling capacity. if it doesn't, it's most likely contaminated internally and there's an insulating later of gook on the inside of the radiator or the exterior fins are clogged/smashed preventing airflow thru it... or you modified the car preventing sufficient airflow thru and away from the radiator.
i think you guys are silly for wanting to upgrade the oem ls1 radiator to the bigger lt1 version or whatever, thinking that the oem ls1 radiator does not have enough cooling capacity. if it doesn't, it's most likely contaminated internally and there's an insulating later of gook on the inside of the radiator or the exterior fins are clogged/smashed preventing airflow thru it... or you modified the car preventing sufficient airflow thru and away from the radiator.
But things may change for those attempting to either maintain coolant temps lower than the factory designated range under all conditions (whether or not this is a beneficial pursuit is a different conversation and also dependent on details of the setup, but in general my experience has been that LS1s produce best average performance in the ~190-210°F range....therefore I'm not a believer in 160°F t-stats and super cool fan settings for stock or moderate applications), and/or those with setups far more aggressive than stock which produce more heat....such as forced induction, etc.
Having said that, it seems that the bigger LT1 radiator is the one typically stocked and produced as a service replacement for all the 4th gen V8s, so for some this "upgrade" may simply be an unintended consequence of parts availability.
#24
stopping short of getting into a geek slap fight with you on a friday afternoon...
http://www.pmmag.com/articles/85239-...fast?v=preview
http://www.hpacmag.com/features/is-t...ving-too-fast/
http://www.pmmag.com/articles/85239-...fast?v=preview
http://www.hpacmag.com/features/is-t...ving-too-fast/
the same concern is often asked in heating/plumbing regarding hydronic heating and whether the water circulation is too fast thru your boiler to pick up enough heat, then too fast thru your baseboards to release it.
I agree with you that "faster flow should not cause overheating [in car engine]"
but i disagree with a "proportionally smaller amount of heat is carried away from the engine". faster flow will carry away more heat, and is described well in that linked article.
I agree with you that "faster flow should not cause overheating [in car engine]"
but i disagree with a "proportionally smaller amount of heat is carried away from the engine". faster flow will carry away more heat, and is described well in that linked article.
#25
https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-...mperature.html
The engine cools off, does it not?
The radiator cools off, does it not?
The engine is a radiator (of temperature energy). The plumbing also acts like a radiator. In fact anything that the coolant can touch, is going to transfer some of the temperature away (if it is higher temp than the surrounding). So before the coolant even makes it to the radiator, there is some temp loss already occurring. If the engine is producing minimal temp rise, you might not even need coolant (some engine are air cooled).
The radiator is the final stand, the last place the coolant can go to lose its temp, before heading back into the engine. Its just the final frontier, the last radiator after a line of radiators. It is a safe place to store the water and let it cool while the engine is heating up some other water molecules in the mean time.
A better way to approach this problem is with a direct question: What is the desired temperature of my engine's head's cooling passages? Then you figure out how to achieve that number, by using a thermostat usually.
The water pump is just for system homogeneity. The faster the water moves, the more collisions with higher velocity, the better a temperature change at one end of the system (rad) is felt at the other end (head). Slow the water down and the differences (high on one side, to low on the other) become larger. Fastest moving water would be best, but faster moving pumps might cavitate. So they design a pump with top speeds that do not induce cavitation at operating speeds with enough movement at idle to still cool the engine sufficiently.
The engine cools off, does it not?
The radiator cools off, does it not?
The engine is a radiator (of temperature energy). The plumbing also acts like a radiator. In fact anything that the coolant can touch, is going to transfer some of the temperature away (if it is higher temp than the surrounding). So before the coolant even makes it to the radiator, there is some temp loss already occurring. If the engine is producing minimal temp rise, you might not even need coolant (some engine are air cooled).
The radiator is the final stand, the last place the coolant can go to lose its temp, before heading back into the engine. Its just the final frontier, the last radiator after a line of radiators. It is a safe place to store the water and let it cool while the engine is heating up some other water molecules in the mean time.
A better way to approach this problem is with a direct question: What is the desired temperature of my engine's head's cooling passages? Then you figure out how to achieve that number, by using a thermostat usually.
The water pump is just for system homogeneity. The faster the water moves, the more collisions with higher velocity, the better a temperature change at one end of the system (rad) is felt at the other end (head). Slow the water down and the differences (high on one side, to low on the other) become larger. Fastest moving water would be best, but faster moving pumps might cavitate. So they design a pump with top speeds that do not induce cavitation at operating speeds with enough movement at idle to still cool the engine sufficiently.
Last edited by kingtal0n; 04-24-2016 at 01:56 PM.
#26
LT1 radiator is not a direct swap to an LS1 car, so no, 99.9% of the LS cars going to a shop for a radiator replacement is going to get an LS radiator.
With that said, for road racing, do i want a 160 or 180 thermostat and with what fan settings?
With that said, for road racing, do i want a 160 or 180 thermostat and with what fan settings?
#27
I think we've gotten off the original topic and said what needs to be said here, so we'll lock this thread up.
Please start a new thread with your road racing focused question and folks can hop in there.
Please start a new thread with your road racing focused question and folks can hop in there.
#28
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 32,396
Likes: 1,818
From: Schiller Park, IL Member: #317
I have not tried to order one from GM directly, perhaps they still offer the original version.