Alot of hesitation / light thuds under medium and hard accelleration [UPDATE: Solved]
03-02-2018, 11:37 PM
#21
If you think there's a good chance that an SD tune is in your (near) future then, as mentioned above, you might want to just consider doing that now. However, if you are paying for a tune (vs. doing this yourself) then it might not be cost effective to go this route before completing the rest of your setup. In which case, a replacement MAF would be the better bet for now.
There's a ton of searchable info on SD tunes and how they have performed for many folks vs. an MAF. Lots of reading on this topic, take some time to research this (if you haven't already) before making any decisions.
There's a ton of searchable info on SD tunes and how they have performed for many folks vs. an MAF. Lots of reading on this topic, take some time to research this (if you haven't already) before making any decisions.
I could probably do this and justify it by running around with the exhaust for the rest of the year while I save up for the bigger part of my project. Full exhaust will cost around $2k and along with the tune I will be close to what I intended to pay for the rear axle.
That or I could just go with a Delco Reman MAF and leave it all stock tune and address tuning and the MAF when I plan to get serious.
Another thing that happened is my coolant level sensor came on..opened it and its slightly low, not real low, no oil or sludge mixed - just needs to be topped off. No visual leaks, no coolant smell...but then it hit me that I could possibly have a head gasket or intake gasket leak which could be causing the hesitation as well.. I'm kind of doubting it because I feel like I should have lost alot more coolant much sooner than now...but idk...just thinking hypothetically.
03-03-2018, 12:42 AM
#22
TECH Fanatic
Pretty much anytime you deviate from the stock MAF, it needs a tune. Different sensors have different calibrations, simple as that. Honestly, you can get away with changing the exhaust without a tune. It's air that has already been metered and accounted for. The biggest change you'll see is that it will mess with your WOT shift points if you have an auto.
Exhaust work doesn't affect the tune all that much, at least from a fueling standpoint, that's what the MAF does. It is far more important to get that MAF fixed, because you could easily end up in a very lean condition, which can blow your engine apart.
Your MAF probably just needs a tune. You said it's not the stock one, so... tune it. Or tune it for SD. Either requires a tune. You can change the exhaust later, and tune it for that later too, but that's just not as important as getting your fuel right.
You can also do the exhaust first and do the tune all at once to adjust MAF and the shift points at the same time.
For the head gasket, it's unlikely, but possible. Check the dipstick to see if there are any white spots on it, that's what water looks like in the oil. Another check that I've done for years is pop the radiator cap (while cold), and then start the car and let it warm up to operating temp. If you have an air leak out of the chamber, as soon as the thermostat opens, the coolant will boil and sputter.
Another more obvious symptom is the car will overheat. That's kind of like the first thing you'll notice, or should.
Exhaust work doesn't affect the tune all that much, at least from a fueling standpoint, that's what the MAF does. It is far more important to get that MAF fixed, because you could easily end up in a very lean condition, which can blow your engine apart.
Your MAF probably just needs a tune. You said it's not the stock one, so... tune it. Or tune it for SD. Either requires a tune. You can change the exhaust later, and tune it for that later too, but that's just not as important as getting your fuel right.
You can also do the exhaust first and do the tune all at once to adjust MAF and the shift points at the same time.
For the head gasket, it's unlikely, but possible. Check the dipstick to see if there are any white spots on it, that's what water looks like in the oil. Another check that I've done for years is pop the radiator cap (while cold), and then start the car and let it warm up to operating temp. If you have an air leak out of the chamber, as soon as the thermostat opens, the coolant will boil and sputter.
Another more obvious symptom is the car will overheat. That's kind of like the first thing you'll notice, or should.
03-03-2018, 01:21 AM
#23
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I know someone personally locally who also has a 4th Gen LS1 F-Body and a pretty solid car who's willing to look into my MAF & tune before replacing it. If tuning is needed it will cost $350, if not I just get a new MAF. He is recommending I do my exhaust work before getting the tune however if one is needed. What I am thinking of is doing the full exhaust and addressing the possible tune issues with my MAF after the exhaust is done (Reason I'm suspecting its a possible tune issue is because this MAF is slightly larger than the stock LS1 MAF so Im suspecting that is the probable cause.) If tune doesn't fix it then I replace the MAF... But what do you think?
Another thing that happened is my coolant level sensor came on..opened it and its slightly low, not real low, no oil or sludge mixed - just needs to be topped off. No visual leaks, no coolant smell...but then it hit me that I could possibly have a head gasket or intake gasket leak which could be causing the hesitation as well.. I'm kind of doubting it because I feel like I should have lost alot more coolant much sooner than now...but idk...just thinking hypothetically.
Would be best to keep an eye on the coolant level for a while and see if it drops again in short order. Lots of possibilities here, but it will be hard to trace if it's just a tiny amount over a very long period. If it drops again quickly, then more investigation will be in order. As a very basic and easy initial check though, did you look at the level in the overflow? Was it also low, or was it higher than you remember it being previously? It's possible that the siphon function might not be working properly (hot coolant being pushed into the overflow during operation, but not drawn back out as the system cools).
When I put headers/ORY on my '00 A4 car, I didn't immediately tune for this and there were no changes at all in WOT shift behavior. In fact, I can't say that I've ever seen headers/exhaust specifically cause a change in shift points in an LS1/A4 application in my experience, however changes in traction due to increased power can certainly cause the illusion of early shifting based on wheel spin (shift points seem to prioritize MPH over RPM).
03-03-2018, 03:20 AM
#24
Did this MAF ever work properly on your car? If so, and if the issues (that also clear up when you unplug the MAF) developed later, then I think it has failed in some way in the mean time and, if so, tuning it won't be the fix. On the other hand, if these issues have always been present with this MAF then it might simply need tuning to work properly in this application.
An intake gasket leak would not result in any change in coolant level in this application. The LS1 intake is a dry one.
Would be best to keep an eye on the coolant level for a while and see if it drops again in short order. Lots of possibilities here, but it will be hard to trace if it's just a tiny amount over a very long period. If it drops again quickly, then more investigation will be in order. As a very basic and easy initial check though, did you look at the level in the overflow? Was it also low, or was it higher than you remember it being previously? It's possible that the siphon function might not be working properly (hot coolant being pushed into the overflow during operation, but not drawn back out as the system cools).
Would be best to keep an eye on the coolant level for a while and see if it drops again in short order. Lots of possibilities here, but it will be hard to trace if it's just a tiny amount over a very long period. If it drops again quickly, then more investigation will be in order. As a very basic and easy initial check though, did you look at the level in the overflow? Was it also low, or was it higher than you remember it being previously? It's possible that the siphon function might not be working properly (hot coolant being pushed into the overflow during operation, but not drawn back out as the system cools).
When I put headers/ORY on my '00 A4 car, I didn't immediately tune for this and there were no changes at all in WOT shift behavior. In fact, I can't say that I've ever seen headers/exhaust specifically cause a change in shift points in an LS1/A4 application in my experience, however changes in traction due to increased power can certainly cause the illusion of early shifting based on wheel spin (shift points seem to prioritize MPH over RPM).
03-03-2018, 07:38 AM
#25
Well, I retract some of that, I unplugged my MAF again and drove it home from work this morning, no hesitation or misfires at all at any point of the power band driving hard or soft... its definitely a MAF issue. Need to figure out now if its a faulty MAF or if it just needs a tune.
03-03-2018, 08:10 AM
#26
TECH Fanatic
I could of swore I read head gasket, not intake gasket. RPM is completely right, and intake leak doesn't mess with coolant, at all. A head gasket does though. That's what I was referring to. If it is, you will either have coolant in your oil, or a pressurized cooling system, exactly as you described. It sounds like you have a pin hole leak in one of your head gaskets, and it's allowing air into the coolant during combustion. This pressurizes the radiator and can shoot coolant everywhere. It's not supposed to do that.
I only said you might have to do the shift points because I had a problem on mine when I did a cold air intake ram air setup (stock MAF) and headers. The increase in power changed the torque curve enough to ding the limiter during WOT shifts. I had to let the pedal up for it to shift. That was many years ago, before I started tuning. Now I know why.
To shift at WOT the car has to satisfy 2 requirements: RPM and MPH. It doesn't matter which order. I always set the MPH about 5 or so under the desired shift point, and then set the RPM from my torque curve to be the trigger. So long as both of these numbers are met, the trans will shift.
Sometimes when you pick up some power through mods, you might actually be short on one of these numbers. My 2-3 shift used to hang because I was hitting the RPM but not the speed. Torque curved changed just enough to cause that. Exhaust has a pretty big effect on this curve. You may or may not have the problem. It's really not that big of deal either way. I just had to lift my pedal for a second and it would shift.
I only said you might have to do the shift points because I had a problem on mine when I did a cold air intake ram air setup (stock MAF) and headers. The increase in power changed the torque curve enough to ding the limiter during WOT shifts. I had to let the pedal up for it to shift. That was many years ago, before I started tuning. Now I know why.
To shift at WOT the car has to satisfy 2 requirements: RPM and MPH. It doesn't matter which order. I always set the MPH about 5 or so under the desired shift point, and then set the RPM from my torque curve to be the trigger. So long as both of these numbers are met, the trans will shift.
Sometimes when you pick up some power through mods, you might actually be short on one of these numbers. My 2-3 shift used to hang because I was hitting the RPM but not the speed. Torque curved changed just enough to cause that. Exhaust has a pretty big effect on this curve. You may or may not have the problem. It's really not that big of deal either way. I just had to lift my pedal for a second and it would shift.
03-03-2018, 08:11 AM
#27
TECH Fanatic
Well, I retract some of that, I unplugged my MAF again and drove it home from work this morning, no hesitation or misfires at all at any point of the power band driving hard or soft... its definitely a MAF issue. Need to figure out now if its a faulty MAF or if it just needs a tune.
03-03-2018, 11:21 AM
#28
Im really not sure. When I had it installed I was DD'ing another car. I had it installed with a LID and ported throttle body and I "think" at first it worked fine but I can't recall for certain.
I drove it few a few hours down the interstate this morning. So far the coolant level is where it need to be but I did get an SES for a catalyctic converter again. If I did have a hole in the head gasket would I be losing coolant faster or have it in my oil? Would it also take out my cats?
I drove it few a few hours down the interstate this morning. So far the coolant level is where it need to be but I did get an SES for a catalyctic converter again. If I did have a hole in the head gasket would I be losing coolant faster or have it in my oil? Would it also take out my cats?
03-03-2018, 12:29 PM
#29
TECH Fanatic
Im really not sure. When I had it installed I was DD'ing another car. I had it installed with a LID and ported throttle body and I "think" at first it worked fine but I can't recall for certain.
I drove it few a few hours down the interstate this morning. So far the coolant level is where it need to be but I did get an SES for a catalyctic converter again. If I did have a hole in the head gasket would I be losing coolant faster or have it in my oil? Would it also take out my cats?
I drove it few a few hours down the interstate this morning. So far the coolant level is where it need to be but I did get an SES for a catalyctic converter again. If I did have a hole in the head gasket would I be losing coolant faster or have it in my oil? Would it also take out my cats?
I'm not completely positive as to your situation, but if I had to guess, I'd say the head gasket is causing your coolant to shoot out like that. That and if you've been having detonation due to a bad MAF, then a blown head gasket is totally possible. It just depends on how big the leak is wether or not you'll see coolant loss. You obviously have air getting into your radiator, that doesn't always mean coolant will go the other way though. Check your spark plugs and see if any of them look out of the ordinary.
For the MAF, I would replace it, then get it tuned. It doesn't make sense to pay for 2 tunes if the first one is bad. You did say that the guy you know can help diagnose it. It would be a good start to fixing your issues. I wouldn't run it too hard with your current MAF, or with it unplugged. SD was probably never tuned, so it's using stock VE values. Hard to say with your mods if this is enough fuel or not. I'd take it easy, and get it figured out asap.
Here's a pic to help read the plugs...
03-03-2018, 12:44 PM
#30
TECH Fanatic
If coolant is getting into the cylinder, it will steam clean the plug and cylinder wall. If you see a plug that got either too hot, or looks very clean, then it's probably time to pull the head. If they all look the same, then maybe you can get away with running it as is so long as it's not overheating or having any other symptoms. If it is leaking air though, it's not going to get better with time.
If it were mine, I would already have a set of gaskets in the mail, and if you don't have studs, then you'll need bolts too. They are 1 time use on the heads. It's not hard to fix, but tedious and time consuming. Just think about doing some more mods while you're at it. I took the opportunity to mil mine down .035" last time I had them off, which was about a week ago. That's a good bump in power. For me it was almost a full point of compression. I went from 11:1 to 11.8:1 with LS9 gaskets. I also have reliefs in my pistons though, and head studs. So I really only ever need the gaskets when I pull them off. Engine is an LS3 with 4.080 bore so LS9 gaskets work great.
If it were mine, I would already have a set of gaskets in the mail, and if you don't have studs, then you'll need bolts too. They are 1 time use on the heads. It's not hard to fix, but tedious and time consuming. Just think about doing some more mods while you're at it. I took the opportunity to mil mine down .035" last time I had them off, which was about a week ago. That's a good bump in power. For me it was almost a full point of compression. I went from 11:1 to 11.8:1 with LS9 gaskets. I also have reliefs in my pistons though, and head studs. So I really only ever need the gaskets when I pull them off. Engine is an LS3 with 4.080 bore so LS9 gaskets work great.
03-03-2018, 12:57 PM
#31
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I only said you might have to do the shift points because I had a problem on mine when I did a cold air intake ram air setup (stock MAF) and headers. The increase in power changed the torque curve enough to ding the limiter during WOT shifts. I had to let the pedal up for it to shift. That was many years ago, before I started tuning. Now I know why.
To shift at WOT the car has to satisfy 2 requirements: RPM and MPH. It doesn't matter which order. I always set the MPH about 5 or so under the desired shift point, and then set the RPM from my torque curve to be the trigger. So long as both of these numbers are met, the trans will shift.
Sometimes when you pick up some power through mods, you might actually be short on one of these numbers. My 2-3 shift used to hang because I was hitting the RPM but not the speed. Torque curved changed just enough to cause that. Exhaust has a pretty big effect on this curve. You may or may not have the problem. It's really not that big of deal either way. I just had to lift my pedal for a second and it would shift.
To shift at WOT the car has to satisfy 2 requirements: RPM and MPH. It doesn't matter which order. I always set the MPH about 5 or so under the desired shift point, and then set the RPM from my torque curve to be the trigger. So long as both of these numbers are met, the trans will shift.
Sometimes when you pick up some power through mods, you might actually be short on one of these numbers. My 2-3 shift used to hang because I was hitting the RPM but not the speed. Torque curved changed just enough to cause that. Exhaust has a pretty big effect on this curve. You may or may not have the problem. It's really not that big of deal either way. I just had to lift my pedal for a second and it would shift.
Priority seems to be given to the MPH figure more so than RPM when it comes to initializing the shift (through tuning I've discovered that changes to the MPH setting seem to have greater effect on actual shift point than comparable changes to RPM). Wheel speed increases rapidly during traction loss and this can cause an early shift at WOT, especially if traction loss continues at or near the shift point (I always get somewhat of an earlier shift when traction is difficult). Modifications themselves (headers or otherwise), separate from any traction issues, have never caused a late shift in my experience though. I've done many modifications (including internal engine stuff) without experiencing any logged changes to WOT shift points during full traction runs. A sudden increase in power with a trans that's just beginning to slip could certainly cause rev limiter contact at WOT though.
However, I do agree about the coolant/radiator issue. Something is not right with the OP's car in this regard, it should not be shooting coolant like a fountain with an open radiator during warm-up. Pressure (compression) seems to exist where it shouldn't in this case.
This is really the key to knowing if it's a tuning issue or a failing MAF. If you can't remember then you'll have to take a gamble here.
03-03-2018, 01:32 PM
#32
Well, it's beginning to sound as if I need to start addressing the motor sooner than I originally planned in that case...
I guess I should take it one step at a time, new MAF first to see if that fixes the problem.
Meanwhile, for the headgasket / coolant issues and catalytic converters, do you think I should just go ahead and pull the heads, mill them and new gaskets? My original plan was a forged Iron LQ4 with a maggie on top of it. I know if I mill the heads that would make it less ideal for boost in the future.
I could just cut my power goals and aim for around 500 HP at the flywheel and build a stroked N/A 383 out of my current LS1 and Im sure that will still be fun although I have always wanted to hear the sound of a supercharger under the hood, would be MUCH less customization though.... should I go ahead and pull the motor and rebuild it / and build it up since I'm going as far as removing the heads?
For the converters should I address those after addressing the heads?
Atleast I already have the transmission to handle more power if it comes down to that at this point, rear axle and suspension not so much...yet.
I guess I should take it one step at a time, new MAF first to see if that fixes the problem.
Meanwhile, for the headgasket / coolant issues and catalytic converters, do you think I should just go ahead and pull the heads, mill them and new gaskets? My original plan was a forged Iron LQ4 with a maggie on top of it. I know if I mill the heads that would make it less ideal for boost in the future.
I could just cut my power goals and aim for around 500 HP at the flywheel and build a stroked N/A 383 out of my current LS1 and Im sure that will still be fun although I have always wanted to hear the sound of a supercharger under the hood, would be MUCH less customization though.... should I go ahead and pull the motor and rebuild it / and build it up since I'm going as far as removing the heads?
For the converters should I address those after addressing the heads?
Atleast I already have the transmission to handle more power if it comes down to that at this point, rear axle and suspension not so much...yet.
Last edited by Need4Camaro; 03-03-2018 at 01:38 PM.
03-03-2018, 07:06 PM
#33
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Meanwhile, for the headgasket / coolant issues and catalytic converters, do you think I should just go ahead and pull the heads, mill them and new gaskets? My original plan was a forged Iron LQ4 with a maggie on top of it. I know if I mill the heads that would make it less ideal for boost in the future.
If you're doing an iron LQ4 then why not just sell your entire LS1 as a running pull-out? You could build an LQ4 from scratch then, using stuff that's all idealized for the build you want.
Have you determined exactly what type of e-test you have to pass? The actual cats themselves may not be necessary depending on this detail.
03-04-2018, 08:55 AM
#34
My radiator has always done some very strange things when I leave the cap off and let it warm up to operating temperatures and has for years. When it warms up my radiator literally becomes a fountain and will SHOOT coolant up as high as the hood and literally just geyers antifreeze all over the place like a water hose and won't stop until the engine is shut down even if left alone for several minutes. I dont mean like leaking out the sides, I mean its literally like a pressurized water hose spraying antifreeze into the air. Even when adding coolant I have always had to drive it, wait till the coolant light comes on, park, wait for it to cool down, add coolant and top off... repeat process until the radiator is full as if I just try to add it while its running idle it will just spray coolant everywhere and lose mostly all of its coolant. I have absolutely no idea as to why it does this, I've replaced the Thermostat twice but didn't help.
I'm thinking something in the plumbing must be off. With the thermostat closed during warm-up, there should be no or very little flow at all. There must be some pathway for the pump to send pressure through the system, even then the thermostat is closed.
03-05-2018, 05:51 PM
#37
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Every time that I've seen an engine spit coolant out the radiator it was a head gasket. I could be wrong, in that it could be some other weird plumbing issue, but I doubt it. He doesn't have any leaks, or any other symptoms of a plumbing issue.
A small one-way pin hole leak could cause this. It makes sense, since until the thermostat opens, it is completely contained in the engine. Once it opens, then all the pressure that has built up from the air leak suddenly rushes to the radiator and then you have the geyser.
I literally just got mine all topped off yesterday after all the work I just did, fired it up with the cap off, and continued filling the system, for at least 20 minutes, at operating temp. Not even a gurgle came out, other than the occasional burp from air getting out as fluid replaced it.
Just working the tune now, got it running decent-ish with some noticeable cam surge. Weird thing is I am able to add crazy amounts of timing, more than I thought I could with this compression, like 15 degrees more, in almost every part throttle area. Yay! full tune... lol.
Back to your radiator issue... I would also be wishing it was something else for your sake, but I just don't see how it could be.
A small one-way pin hole leak could cause this. It makes sense, since until the thermostat opens, it is completely contained in the engine. Once it opens, then all the pressure that has built up from the air leak suddenly rushes to the radiator and then you have the geyser.
I literally just got mine all topped off yesterday after all the work I just did, fired it up with the cap off, and continued filling the system, for at least 20 minutes, at operating temp. Not even a gurgle came out, other than the occasional burp from air getting out as fluid replaced it.
Just working the tune now, got it running decent-ish with some noticeable cam surge. Weird thing is I am able to add crazy amounts of timing, more than I thought I could with this compression, like 15 degrees more, in almost every part throttle area. Yay! full tune... lol.
Back to your radiator issue... I would also be wishing it was something else for your sake, but I just don't see how it could be.
03-05-2018, 07:49 PM
#38
Not IMMEDIATELY, it is more like you watch the fluid in the radiator begin to bubble, alot, then it starts chugging out the sides of the fill neck, then it starts getting violent and shoots UP to the hood and won't stop unless I shut it down. So it kind of like builds up over time but its a fairly short period of time.
I'm honestly beginning to believe you're right considering the missing coolant and no leaks. I haven't been driving it since. I personally feel comfortable replacing the head gaskets on my own but I feel like if Im going to go that far I may as well just address the motor before anything else...
Admittedly though I'm beginning to have second thoughts on my project as a whole. I hate coming off as double minded but I'm beginning to realize I may dump alot of money into this car and still have something that won't be right and then countless dollars on the backend in tuning and cleaning up the build (by that, I mean I highly doubt everything is just going to work right right off the bat) and in the end after its said and done I'll still have a car thats only worth 3 - 4k at best.
I'm "thinking" of canning the project and getting a 2SS with the money I saved up and possibly even trading consolidating from 2 cars to 1 to reduce my expenses on cars in general but Im not sure. I love my F-Body but if I sell it, there's no turning back and all the work I've put into this car will be gone (Finish Line Transmission, All my interior upgrades, ect) and also the 6th Gen just isn't as unique as a 4th Gen either...and lastly I won't be able to mod the 6th Gen either..Although 455 HP stock is nothing to sneeze at. So thoughts have been going through my head as I sit here not making a move till I figure out what I really want.
Every time that I've seen an engine spit coolant out the radiator it was a head gasket. I could be wrong, in that it could be some other weird plumbing issue, but I doubt it. He doesn't have any leaks, or any other symptoms of a plumbing issue.
A small one-way pin hole leak could cause this. It makes sense, since until the thermostat opens, it is completely contained in the engine. Once it opens, then all the pressure that has built up from the air leak suddenly rushes to the radiator and then you have the geyser.
I literally just got mine all topped off yesterday after all the work I just did, fired it up with the cap off, and continued filling the system, for at least 20 minutes, at operating temp. Not even a gurgle came out, other than the occasional burp from air getting out as fluid replaced it.
Just working the tune now, got it running decent-ish with some noticeable cam surge. Weird thing is I am able to add crazy amounts of timing, more than I thought I could with this compression, like 15 degrees more, in almost every part throttle area. Yay! full tune... lol.
Back to your radiator issue... I would also be wishing it was something else for your sake, but I just don't see how it could be.
A small one-way pin hole leak could cause this. It makes sense, since until the thermostat opens, it is completely contained in the engine. Once it opens, then all the pressure that has built up from the air leak suddenly rushes to the radiator and then you have the geyser.
I literally just got mine all topped off yesterday after all the work I just did, fired it up with the cap off, and continued filling the system, for at least 20 minutes, at operating temp. Not even a gurgle came out, other than the occasional burp from air getting out as fluid replaced it.
Just working the tune now, got it running decent-ish with some noticeable cam surge. Weird thing is I am able to add crazy amounts of timing, more than I thought I could with this compression, like 15 degrees more, in almost every part throttle area. Yay! full tune... lol.
Back to your radiator issue... I would also be wishing it was something else for your sake, but I just don't see how it could be.
Admittedly though I'm beginning to have second thoughts on my project as a whole. I hate coming off as double minded but I'm beginning to realize I may dump alot of money into this car and still have something that won't be right and then countless dollars on the backend in tuning and cleaning up the build (by that, I mean I highly doubt everything is just going to work right right off the bat) and in the end after its said and done I'll still have a car thats only worth 3 - 4k at best.
I'm "thinking" of canning the project and getting a 2SS with the money I saved up and possibly even trading consolidating from 2 cars to 1 to reduce my expenses on cars in general but Im not sure. I love my F-Body but if I sell it, there's no turning back and all the work I've put into this car will be gone (Finish Line Transmission, All my interior upgrades, ect) and also the 6th Gen just isn't as unique as a 4th Gen either...and lastly I won't be able to mod the 6th Gen either..Although 455 HP stock is nothing to sneeze at. So thoughts have been going through my head as I sit here not making a move till I figure out what I really want.
03-05-2018, 09:59 PM
#39
TECH Fanatic
You're only looking at about 200 bucks for a set of head gaskets and hardware. Just make sure you clean the hell out of the holes. I use compressed air in combination with a shop vac. You'll need a set of header gaskets too. It's really not that bad, and you can get it done in a weekend.
Fwiw, any properly modified car can trounce just about anything the factory can produce. Just a thought. 455 bhp isn't much over about 375 whp through an auto. Remember there is considerable loss through the drivetrain. I'm using the 20% rule, and 375 is actually a high estimate.
You'll have a better appreciation for a car that you build, than one that you buy. Given I would love to have the money for a new 6th gen, but even once I had it, I'd find myself tearing it apart and making it mine.
I have stupid money in my car, but I don't care. It's not the money that makes the car, it was my time and effort that gets the attention. I honestly stopped counting when I went over 40k (cost of car included) and I have no intention of selling it, ever. That's a great feeling when you bust out a power tool like a drill or a grinder and don't give a flying f*** about if it will affect the resale. Nothing stops me from putting in holes or making mods to make other mods work. I've hacked, ground, shaved, welded, and pounded the hell out of many parts of that car to squeeze in my 427 LS3 stroker, and 4L80. There were a lot of mods required to get that to work right with the deep oil pan.
I'm also pretty independent and industrious, I do my own tuning and build lots of my own parts when no one makes it. That's how I know I'm doing it right, because I'm doing something original. I was probably one of the first to have an LS3 in a 4th gen back in 08. I've had the car since 03. I'm the second and last owner.
Fwiw, any properly modified car can trounce just about anything the factory can produce. Just a thought. 455 bhp isn't much over about 375 whp through an auto. Remember there is considerable loss through the drivetrain. I'm using the 20% rule, and 375 is actually a high estimate.
You'll have a better appreciation for a car that you build, than one that you buy. Given I would love to have the money for a new 6th gen, but even once I had it, I'd find myself tearing it apart and making it mine.
I have stupid money in my car, but I don't care. It's not the money that makes the car, it was my time and effort that gets the attention. I honestly stopped counting when I went over 40k (cost of car included) and I have no intention of selling it, ever. That's a great feeling when you bust out a power tool like a drill or a grinder and don't give a flying f*** about if it will affect the resale. Nothing stops me from putting in holes or making mods to make other mods work. I've hacked, ground, shaved, welded, and pounded the hell out of many parts of that car to squeeze in my 427 LS3 stroker, and 4L80. There were a lot of mods required to get that to work right with the deep oil pan.
I'm also pretty independent and industrious, I do my own tuning and build lots of my own parts when no one makes it. That's how I know I'm doing it right, because I'm doing something original. I was probably one of the first to have an LS3 in a 4th gen back in 08. I've had the car since 03. I'm the second and last owner.
03-05-2018, 10:06 PM
#40
TECH Fanatic
And cars are an investment in fun more than money. If you're investing in the car with the intention of selling it later, then I'd do as you said and get the new model. Or get the new one and keep the catfish anyway. Bottom line, unless you get something super rare, cars are always a terrible financial investment. It's about the fun, and doing guy **** like drinking beer and building engines. You can't buy the experience you get from doing things on your own.