Ls1 = Corvete Engine???
05-07-2007, 08:42 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by djsanchez2
Well i see it one way if they are working on an f-body and tell you that you have a corvette engine. Simply put, THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS WORKING ON THAT CAR!! That is all.
As for BLACK01M6SS I too have worked at a dealership (over a year) as a tech, as has my father for over 15yrs. (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, You name it) A quote is a quote, and Unauthorized work IS Unauthorized work. I made this same mistake once and got to do the work for FREE. Why should other dudes get off easier bacause you percieve it to be a good deal on the amount they charged?
Thats kinda like a gardener giving an estimate of $25/mo. to cut the lawn, then turns around and does a full re-landscape job while you are on vacation, and expects you to pay $2000 for work done!! Is this fair...NO.
You seem to be the neighbor who says, "Well they did a good job at a fair price, you should pay them", in this situation.
As for BLACK01M6SS I too have worked at a dealership (over a year) as a tech, as has my father for over 15yrs. (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, You name it) A quote is a quote, and Unauthorized work IS Unauthorized work. I made this same mistake once and got to do the work for FREE. Why should other dudes get off easier bacause you percieve it to be a good deal on the amount they charged?
Thats kinda like a gardener giving an estimate of $25/mo. to cut the lawn, then turns around and does a full re-landscape job while you are on vacation, and expects you to pay $2000 for work done!! Is this fair...NO.
You seem to be the neighbor who says, "Well they did a good job at a fair price, you should pay them", in this situation.
The LS1 first came out in 1997 in the C5 corvette. Many people call it the "Corvette Engine". Its like trying to tell someone that has an OBD2 car with a superchips programmer that they don't have a chip. At some point you just have to give up, stop arguing and accept the term the majority of people use. The chip thing really gets to me. I even have a joke about it in my sig but if you know someone knows nothing about a car and they ask you about the car do you try to explain to them about EEPROM or do you just say it has a chip? More than likey the guy that made the statement about it having a corvette engine assumed the guy he was talking to didn't know much about cars.
You are right about the unauthorized work thing. The guy can probably whine, gripe, bitch and complain and get the work done for free. I feel that the law is in place so that people are protected from shops that may try to grossly overcharge not from a shop that adds on a couple hundred $ to fix a problem related to the customers complaint.
I have an example for you people to think about. A customer drops his car off at the shop on the way to work and has approved the estimate of a brake job. The customer plans to pick up the car that afternoon when he gets off. The number he gives on the repair order is his home phone. The tech doing the brake job does the front first but then gets to the rear brakes and notices the wheel cylinder is leaking. The shop has the wheel cyl in stock but it cost 75$ for the part. The brakes will also need to be bleed now to get the air out of the new wheel cylinder so at least .5 hour more labor. The tech needs to get this job done so he can move on to the next one. The tech notifies his service advisor of the issue and the service advisor makes a judgement call and approves the addition of the wheel cylinder. More than likely this customer would be happy that the additional problem was found and fixed so that he could pick up his car when he had planned.
Service advisors are humans. The service advisor at the shop in question more than likely made a judgement call simular to the one above. The law says that you do not have to pay in this situation. It is MY opinion that you would be a total *** for abusing the law. Simular to all the sue happy people we see now days.
"Thats kinda like a gardener giving an estimate of $25/mo. to cut the lawn, then turns around and does a full re-landscape job while you are on vacation, and expects you to pay $2000 for work done!! Is this fair...NO.
You seem to be the neighbor who says, "Well they did a good job at a fair price, you should pay them", in this situation."
I disagree. Its more like gas prices going up and him asking $30/mo. after he just got done for this month...and you saying no, you said $25/mo.
05-07-2007, 09:58 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Black01M6SS
I disagree. Its more like gas prices going up and him asking $30/mo. after he just got done for this month...and you saying no, you said $25/mo.
Unauthorized repairs are still unauthorized, and this comparison to gas prices is so far from this it hurts my brain.
Also I can agree *somewhat* with minor costs but this is to much of a price jump.
05-07-2007, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeresous
Unauthorized repairs are still unauthorized, and this comparison to gas prices is so far from this it hurts my brain.
Also I can agree *somewhat* with minor costs but this is to much of a price jump.
They call it an estimate for a reason. Even if the law doesn't agree the way I see it a quote is a quote but an estimate...is an estimate. 300$ just doesn't seem like a huge amount to me. I can tell that to some of you guys it is though. Its not like they overcharged him. They actually did the work. From what I can tell their estimate was wrong because his diagnosis was wrong. From what I can get out of it he was having the rear main replaced for an oil leak in that area. The tech found it to be leaking around the cam sensor and also replaced it. What that comes down to is you should have paid the 1 hour diag fee that most shops have instead of trying to guess what the problem was. Next time I hope they just replace the part you determain to be the problem, you get home and its doing the same thing
Just so that its clear, I never said I don't think they should have called him and asked him about it. I just think that now that its done he should realize that they are human and made a mistake. I don't think it gives him the right not to pay for the work that was done.
05-07-2007, 11:07 PM
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I see where you are coming from Black01m6ss.... If it's a repair that you would have authorized had they called you then I wouldn't be to upset about it, unless you are hurting for money at the time and cant afford the repair. I'd be annoyed and express my displeasure with not getting a phone call. Of course if it is something that you would have rather repaired yourself and not done at the time then I can see getting pretty upset as well. The problem is even if its only $300 they can't just assume that you can afford it. If its a shop I've been going to for a very long time and people I trust, and I can afford the repair and I would have authorized it then I would let it go, and just ask them not to ever do that again. Its all completely circumstantial, totally depends on your financial situation and the nature of the repair, and how urgent the repair was. I'd be a little bit friggen pissed if they swapped out my brakes when I just asked for an oil change for example, and I probably wouldn't pay for it because I do my own brakes.
However the mechanic he is describing would not see my business again simply because of the "Corvette engine" thing. Calling it a vette engine I can live with, as annoying as it is.... but being shocked or accusing the price increase on that is entirely different. They should know before they ever schedule you for repairs what engine your car has. I'm sure they knew it was a V8 before they ever popped the hood. At least the people at the counter did. It's not like you tried to pull a fast one on them by sliding in your V8, oh so unexpectedly. "Holy crap this SS has a V8!" "your fired"
However the mechanic he is describing would not see my business again simply because of the "Corvette engine" thing. Calling it a vette engine I can live with, as annoying as it is.... but being shocked or accusing the price increase on that is entirely different. They should know before they ever schedule you for repairs what engine your car has. I'm sure they knew it was a V8 before they ever popped the hood. At least the people at the counter did. It's not like you tried to pull a fast one on them by sliding in your V8, oh so unexpectedly. "Holy crap this SS has a V8!" "your fired"
Last edited by Jeresous; 05-07-2007 at 11:16 PM.
05-07-2007, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeresous
I see where you are coming from Black01m6ss.... If it's a repair that you would have authorized had they called you then I wouldn't be to upset about it, unless you are hurting for money at the time and cant afford the repair. I'd be annoyed and express my displeasure with not getting a phone call. Of course if it is something that you would have rather repaired yourself and not done at the time then I can see getting pretty upset as well. The problem is even if its only $300 they can't just assume that you can afford it. If its a shop I've been going to for a very long time and people I trust, and I can afford the repair and I would have authorized it then I would let it go, and just ask them not to ever do that again. Its all completely circumstantial, totally depends on your financial situation and the nature of the repair, and how urgent the repair was. I'd be a little bit friggen pissed if they swapped out my breaks when I just asked for an oil change for example, and I probably wouldn't pay for it because I do my own breaks.
However the mechanic he is describing would not see my business again simply because of the "Corvette engine" thing. Calling it a vette engine I can live with, as annoying as it is.... but being shocked or accusing the price increase on that is entirely different. They should know before they ever schedule you for repairs what engine your car has. I'm sure they knew it was a V8 before they ever popped the hood. At least the people at the counter did. It's not like you tried to pull a fast one on them by sliding in your V8, oh so unexpectedly. "Holy crap this SS has a V8!" "your fired"
However the mechanic he is describing would not see my business again simply because of the "Corvette engine" thing. Calling it a vette engine I can live with, as annoying as it is.... but being shocked or accusing the price increase on that is entirely different. They should know before they ever schedule you for repairs what engine your car has. I'm sure they knew it was a V8 before they ever popped the hood. At least the people at the counter did. It's not like you tried to pull a fast one on them by sliding in your V8, oh so unexpectedly. "Holy crap this SS has a V8!" "your fired"
Ok maybe i was a bit generous with the numbers i threw around about the gardener thing but it got the point across like it was supposed to. I do not mean to argue but the post above mine says it all bro.
05-08-2007, 02:06 PM
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Thanks guys for all the replys well I got the camaro back monday, payd in full, at first I was mad , but now I'm ok with it I'm not one to want things done for free I mean if they did the work and its going to stop the leak problems I'm a happy camper, I just got one more thing that is troubling me, I noticed some of the replys are from some knowledgeable techs
To replace the R&R CAM CENSOR did they have to replace the REAR MAIN SEAL ?
I mean is the R&R CAM CENSOR in any way located by the transmission, I don't even know what it looks like. I do know that to replace the REAR MAIN SEAL they wold have to pull the transmission down.
just wondering if the REAR MAIN SEAL was done for nothing, I mean i know eventually I wold have to change it any ways.
To replace the R&R CAM CENSOR did they have to replace the REAR MAIN SEAL ?
I mean is the R&R CAM CENSOR in any way located by the transmission, I don't even know what it looks like. I do know that to replace the REAR MAIN SEAL they wold have to pull the transmission down.
just wondering if the REAR MAIN SEAL was done for nothing, I mean i know eventually I wold have to change it any ways.
Last edited by quickchrome2000; 05-08-2007 at 02:44 PM.
05-08-2007, 03:15 PM
#28
There is only one cam sensor, so no R&R Cam Sensor. It is located on the top of the block, behind the intake manifold. I can replace it by sliding my hand back there, unplugging the connector and using a small ratchet (10mm IIRC) and pull it up. One horu tops to swap. The rear main seal is not affected by the cam sensor, nor vice versa. 
05-08-2007, 03:59 PM
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Sounds to me like i'd never take my car to that shop. Hence why I try to do EVERYTHING possible myself, if i need a special tool I'll go buy it and read how to do it rather than take it somewhere. Black01M6SS i don't know how backwards it is down in Louisiana but i don't know anyone personally that would let a shop make those kind of decisions for you, up here i've been to a few shops that do that purposely just to make an extra buck, especially with women who know nothing about cars. It actually pisses me off but to each their own, just know I will never take my car to any dealer in the state of Indiana, especially when I worked with a head mechanic at Toyota and he was literally a complete moron when it came to cars. I admit there are things I don't know about cars also but I can hold my own. But whatever
05-08-2007, 06:07 PM
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Most of you just don't understand the order of things and how they can get messed up. It sounds to me like this tech had the car tore down on his lift for a problem it did not have (rear main seal leaking). I think what the tech was saying was he found the leak after taking it apart to replace the rear main seal. He needed to get this car off his lift so he could move on and he didn't want to put it back together knowing it was still going to be leaking.
Quickchrome : R+R means Removed and Replaced
I think what happened here is the tech had the transmission out and saw that it was not the rear main seal leaking OR the rear main was not the only thing leaking. He then traced the leak and found it to be leaking around the cam sensor. He reported this issue to his Service Advisor who made a bad decision, in this case, by assuming the customer would want them to fix the part that was actually causing the leak. The customer had request that the rear main seal be replaced so it was replaced, leaking or not. Don't feel bad about it though. It wasn't a bad idea to replace it anyway.
Jon, you could be correct about things being backwards down here. I can honestly say that where I work they never try to cheat/trick the customers. They do make judgement calls sometimes though. In this case I feel the shop I work at would have attempted to contact this guy to authorize the repair but if they were unable to reach the guy at that time they would have fixed the problem while the car was tore down on the lift.
Someone mentioned that they can swap a cam sensor in 1 hour. The labor times for repairs come from a labor manual or sometimes alldata. The fact that most expirenced techs can "beat" this time is how they make their money.
I suggest that people bring their cars to dealerships or nice looking shops that have a good rep. If you want it done quickly its best to bring them early in the week. Its best to go ahead and pay them a diag fee unless you are completely sure you know what needs to be replaced. If you tell them to replace a part and it is not the part that needed replacing most of the time you will either get your car back and it won't be fixed or they will let you know it has other problems after they have already replaced the part you requested.
I know people make jokes and call them stealerships but most of the time you get what you pay for. The labor IS more expensive at a dealership and they try to use nothing but OEM parts that are more expensive than aftermarket. I've lost count of the number of times a car or customer has come to our shop complaining that they "just had it fixed over at such and such" but its still messing up. We look at the car and find a number of parts that have been replaced...non pertaining to the problem. These are the customers that passed us up on the way to the shop that was cheeper on labor. I think you will come out better in most cases going to a shop that knows what they are doing and have the correct scan tool/ PCM software for the car.
We always joke "Pay us now OR Pay us later"
Quickchrome : R+R means Removed and Replaced
I think what happened here is the tech had the transmission out and saw that it was not the rear main seal leaking OR the rear main was not the only thing leaking. He then traced the leak and found it to be leaking around the cam sensor. He reported this issue to his Service Advisor who made a bad decision, in this case, by assuming the customer would want them to fix the part that was actually causing the leak. The customer had request that the rear main seal be replaced so it was replaced, leaking or not. Don't feel bad about it though. It wasn't a bad idea to replace it anyway.
Jon, you could be correct about things being backwards down here. I can honestly say that where I work they never try to cheat/trick the customers. They do make judgement calls sometimes though. In this case I feel the shop I work at would have attempted to contact this guy to authorize the repair but if they were unable to reach the guy at that time they would have fixed the problem while the car was tore down on the lift.
Someone mentioned that they can swap a cam sensor in 1 hour. The labor times for repairs come from a labor manual or sometimes alldata. The fact that most expirenced techs can "beat" this time is how they make their money.
I suggest that people bring their cars to dealerships or nice looking shops that have a good rep. If you want it done quickly its best to bring them early in the week. Its best to go ahead and pay them a diag fee unless you are completely sure you know what needs to be replaced. If you tell them to replace a part and it is not the part that needed replacing most of the time you will either get your car back and it won't be fixed or they will let you know it has other problems after they have already replaced the part you requested.
I know people make jokes and call them stealerships but most of the time you get what you pay for. The labor IS more expensive at a dealership and they try to use nothing but OEM parts that are more expensive than aftermarket. I've lost count of the number of times a car or customer has come to our shop complaining that they "just had it fixed over at such and such" but its still messing up. We look at the car and find a number of parts that have been replaced...non pertaining to the problem. These are the customers that passed us up on the way to the shop that was cheeper on labor. I think you will come out better in most cases going to a shop that knows what they are doing and have the correct scan tool/ PCM software for the car.
We always joke "Pay us now OR Pay us later"
05-08-2007, 07:04 PM
#32
About the Corvette engine part...true story.
I was at this car show aprox. 2 years ago with my car, waxing it and answering questions about it when these two DRUNKS approach to the car. I have Corvette FRC and one of the guys said out loud... *drunk speech*"Heey is that for real??? Did you put that engine there??" Then the other drunk said..."You dumbfuck fool!!!! Thats factory!!" I was amazed, this guy at least knew something. But then he continued.."Thats called a special edition....you know limited, rare car!!!" I almost cried for laughing that hard...LOL!
I was at this car show aprox. 2 years ago with my car, waxing it and answering questions about it when these two DRUNKS approach to the car. I have Corvette FRC and one of the guys said out loud... *drunk speech*"Heey is that for real??? Did you put that engine there??" Then the other drunk said..."You dumbfuck fool!!!! Thats factory!!" I was amazed, this guy at least knew something. But then he continued.."Thats called a special edition....you know limited, rare car!!!" I almost cried for laughing that hard...LOL!
05-09-2007, 09:45 AM
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Well said I've been hosed soo many times by shops... I mean... not that they ripped you off or anything, i'm sure they aren't over charging you, but the fact of the matter is, you weren't prepared to pay that price and odds are you wouldn't have authorized the work for that price *yet*
I've been hosed soo many times by shops... I mean... not that they ripped you off or anything, i'm sure they aren't over charging you, but the fact of the matter is, you weren't prepared to pay that price and odds are you wouldn't have authorized the work for that price *yet*
05-09-2007, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MagikMan
I just wish when i take the 'vette in to a shop, they say "oh you have a camaro engine... that's gonna take off 25% from the corvette tax"
05-12-2007, 05:47 PM
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[QUOTE=Black01M6SS]I agree but from what I see it is not uncommon to have to wait 3-5 days when getting major work done nor is it uncommon for a shop to fix a problem related to the customers complaint without asking the customer first as long as the cost to fix it is not WAY over the orignal estimate.
As far as the law goes the shop is probably in the wrong and I agree that it is bad customer service for them not to have called him to let him know. I don't think it is anything out of the ordnary though, **** happens.
To the topic starter : Don't take this wrong. I don't mean anything personal by it and I'm just going by the information you gave. From the knowlege I have of what goes on in the shops I think it is wrong of you to bitch and complain about the bill. Maybe complain to them about it taking so long and them not calling. Their customer service wasn't great but at least pay the bill. They have to eat too. At the shop I work at the service advisor makes the call to fix it now or ask the customer and if he didn't call you then more than likey he just figured since you had a history with them you wouldn't have a problem with them fixing something related to the complaint.[/QUOTE
I dont really have a problem with the timeline, sometimes shops get alittle backed up, not a big deal. What i do have a serious problem with is them going in and doing more work WITHOUT authorization from the owner. You simply cannot do that and expect to maintain a good reputation as a reliable shop. granted, the cam sensor NEEDED to be replaced, but what if i brought my car in to have the oil changed and it NEEDED tires or brakes, is it ok to just do the work without asking for authorization first? granted the cam sensor needed to be replaced, but where do you draw the line?
As far as the law goes the shop is probably in the wrong and I agree that it is bad customer service for them not to have called him to let him know. I don't think it is anything out of the ordnary though, **** happens.
To the topic starter : Don't take this wrong. I don't mean anything personal by it and I'm just going by the information you gave. From the knowlege I have of what goes on in the shops I think it is wrong of you to bitch and complain about the bill. Maybe complain to them about it taking so long and them not calling. Their customer service wasn't great but at least pay the bill. They have to eat too. At the shop I work at the service advisor makes the call to fix it now or ask the customer and if he didn't call you then more than likey he just figured since you had a history with them you wouldn't have a problem with them fixing something related to the complaint.[/QUOTE
I dont really have a problem with the timeline, sometimes shops get alittle backed up, not a big deal. What i do have a serious problem with is them going in and doing more work WITHOUT authorization from the owner. You simply cannot do that and expect to maintain a good reputation as a reliable shop. granted, the cam sensor NEEDED to be replaced, but what if i brought my car in to have the oil changed and it NEEDED tires or brakes, is it ok to just do the work without asking for authorization first? granted the cam sensor needed to be replaced, but where do you draw the line?
05-12-2007, 09:54 PM
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Seems to me like they forgot to do a visual inspection of the leak. Some dye maybe, for those hard to spot leaks. Point is the tech/shop made an error by quoting BEFORE diagnosing. It sounds like the tech did what he was told to and dropped the trans and THEN realized it was not the rear main seal that was leaking. If I was a crooked tech and I had a choice between reinstalling the tranny for FREE or replacing a rear main seal that is not leaking and getting paid to do it. Well folks, I imagine you can guess what I would do. My point is, the law's the law. It's there to improve the public's view of dealerships/shops. If you don't hold these businesses accountable for their mistakes we as employees suffer the consequences. Namely, reduced customer base. How many times have you heard on these forums, "Hell no, I will never take my car to a dealership again!" or, "I do all of my own work. I've had too many bad experiences at auto shops."? It's way too common. I'm an MB tech at an MB dealership and I pride myself on the quality, not just the quantity of my work. If I need to flag more hours then I hussle on my inspections and recommend only what is needed or recommended based on the vehicle's mileage and service history. If you exceed expectations then you will have more work. If you oversell you will have more pissed off customers than happy ones. If you ask anybody that's been around the auto repair industry for a while and is successful at it what drives a good business he will tell you 'return customers' and 'word of mouth'. Most businesses that behave like the one mentioned will have neither. My .02
