View Poll Results: TD's or Y pipe?
true duals
46
76.67%
Y pipe and catback, possibly a cutout
14
23.33%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll
True Duals vs y pipe setup
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque,NM
how does one 4inch pipe give more flow space than 2 seprate 3inch (6inch total) correct me if im wrong but the velocity "pulling" the exhaust gasses out would be greater as forced thru 2 smaller pipes (same as collector size) than going thru a reverse bottle neck 3inch collectors to 4inch pipe slowing it down.
will i have trouble with fitting a chassis mounted TQ arm and TSP tru duals?
and will the TSP true duals tuck up enough to not be seen very well? cause ive seen some true dual setups that looked absolutely horrible and you could easily see them. it looked like they were about 2 inches away from scraping the ground.
anyone got some pics they could post up of TSP true duals on there car?
and will the TSP true duals tuck up enough to not be seen very well? cause ive seen some true dual setups that looked absolutely horrible and you could easily see them. it looked like they were about 2 inches away from scraping the ground.
anyone got some pics they could post up of TSP true duals on there car?
I can tell you first hand, that with a black car, if you go TD's dumped, be prepared for a dirty car, literally the second that you start the car up after cleaning it. It kicks up all the dirt & dust. Not a big deal on a race car, but for street driven, a pain in the *** in that aspect. They do sound great, but I must be getting old, because it gets to me sometimes.
I think the best would be as in the pic above, a custom Y 3 in 4 out, then an electronic cutout, then reduced to 3 to a rear muffer setup of your choice. Put a 3 bolt type clamp right there before or after the cutout & you can unbolt all the weight of the rear muffler, and bolt up a bullet, as in the pic.
I doubt there would be much difference between the properly setup Y & the TD. I'll let you know as I have the TD's with bullets on there right now & plan too switch to the Y when things warm up. Running 129 MPH with TD's.
I like the Patrick G setup.
I think the best would be as in the pic above, a custom Y 3 in 4 out, then an electronic cutout, then reduced to 3 to a rear muffer setup of your choice. Put a 3 bolt type clamp right there before or after the cutout & you can unbolt all the weight of the rear muffler, and bolt up a bullet, as in the pic.
I doubt there would be much difference between the properly setup Y & the TD. I'll let you know as I have the TD's with bullets on there right now & plan too switch to the Y when things warm up. Running 129 MPH with TD's.
I like the Patrick G setup.
how does one 4inch pipe give more flow space than 2 seprate 3inch (6inch total) correct me if im wrong but the velocity "pulling" the exhaust gasses out would be greater as forced thru 2 smaller pipes (same as collector size) than going thru a reverse bottle neck 3inch collectors to 4inch pipe slowing it down.
Lots of ways to skin this cat, fewer on our cars due to clearance, etc. For comparison, let me give you rough cross sectional area, which indicates maximum flow:
single 3" - 7 square inches
single 3.5" - 9.62 sq in
dual 2.5" - 9.8 sq in
single 4" - 12.5 sq in
dual 3" - 14.1 sq in
Obviously, you add Xs, Hs, and merges from one to the other, that complicates things BUT - going from single 3" y pipe to true 2.5" duals give you theoretically about 40% more flow. It may not be super noticeable below 350whp but it is measurable below that and moreso as power increases.
Another note, NO mod we do increases power by a fixed number, it increases by % and multiplies out to HP. Even then, it's not linear - but you should get the idea.
The nice pic of the y pipe above (4 inch with flow merge) is a nice Y but damn near dumps, not a full system by most street standards. Y setups fit closer to stock, are lighter, and cheaper since there are fewer parts. Dual setups are heavier, more expensive, have more potential clearance issues, but sound better and make more power.
Short version - properly done full length duals will always outperform proper full length y pipe and cat back setups. It's hard to do apples to apples since there are SO many variables on these systems and art plays a big role but the math does not lie regarding true potential. Pick what fits your needs best, usually it's budget first for most of us.
single 3" - 7 square inches
single 3.5" - 9.62 sq in
dual 2.5" - 9.8 sq in
single 4" - 12.5 sq in
dual 3" - 14.1 sq in
Obviously, you add Xs, Hs, and merges from one to the other, that complicates things BUT - going from single 3" y pipe to true 2.5" duals give you theoretically about 40% more flow. It may not be super noticeable below 350whp but it is measurable below that and moreso as power increases.
Another note, NO mod we do increases power by a fixed number, it increases by % and multiplies out to HP. Even then, it's not linear - but you should get the idea.
The nice pic of the y pipe above (4 inch with flow merge) is a nice Y but damn near dumps, not a full system by most street standards. Y setups fit closer to stock, are lighter, and cheaper since there are fewer parts. Dual setups are heavier, more expensive, have more potential clearance issues, but sound better and make more power.
Short version - properly done full length duals will always outperform proper full length y pipe and cat back setups. It's hard to do apples to apples since there are SO many variables on these systems and art plays a big role but the math does not lie regarding true potential. Pick what fits your needs best, usually it's budget first for most of us.
Last edited by jmilz28; Jan 16, 2009 at 02:19 PM.
I just called TSP and they told me that I wont be able to use a chassis mounted torque arm with their True Dual system.
I need a chassis mounted tq arm to be running a 408 right? or can i use a trans mounted one still. I want my suspension to be able to hold 700+rwhp.
so i guess maybe i should just stick with a y pipe....
Im also about to buy a used set of 1 7/8x2 kooks LT headers and they wont work with TSP true duals because the collector is too big.
I need a chassis mounted tq arm to be running a 408 right? or can i use a trans mounted one still. I want my suspension to be able to hold 700+rwhp.
so i guess maybe i should just stick with a y pipe....
Im also about to buy a used set of 1 7/8x2 kooks LT headers and they wont work with TSP true duals because the collector is too big.
Last edited by gmmusclecarman; Jan 16, 2009 at 02:31 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo I just called TSP and they told me that I wont be able to use a chassis mounted torque arm with their True Dual system.
I need a chassis mounted tq arm to be running a 408 right? or can i use a trans mounted one still. I want my suspension to be able to hold 700+rwhp.
so i guess maybe i should just stick with a y pipe....
I need a chassis mounted tq arm to be running a 408 right? or can i use a trans mounted one still. I want my suspension to be able to hold 700+rwhp.
so i guess maybe i should just stick with a y pipe....
EDIT: Here is your answer:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...nel-brace.html
Good luck!
/hijack
Last edited by jmilz28; Jan 16, 2009 at 02:42 PM. Reason: more info
with kooks LT headers and y pipe will that hit the torque arm too? I was just looking on WS6store.com and it looks like there is a specially made torque arm for having kooks headers.
I guess now what im worried about is what headers and exhaust setup wont have any clearance issues?
I guess now what im worried about is what headers and exhaust setup wont have any clearance issues?
with kooks LT headers and y pipe will that hit the torque arm too? I was just looking on WS6store.com and it looks like there is a specially made torque arm for having kooks headers.
I guess now what im worried about is what headers and exhaust setup wont have any clearance issues?
I guess now what im worried about is what headers and exhaust setup wont have any clearance issues?
UMI has TA setups, including relocation kits, to fit most any kind of exhaust.
http://www.umiperformance.com/produc...ategory_id=130
I just called UMI and i decided to go with kooks 1 7/8x2 LT headers and kooks y pipe. they said they have a TQ arm specifically designed for this setup. The TD's just seem like more trouble than there worth.
If you get the tranny mount TA + the relocation kit, then you'll be able to do either exhaust setup.
Kooks headers (great choice, btw)
then decide if you want the Y = catback or TSP's duals - either should fit with that TA setup.
Duals WILL be loud but if you're not going with cats anyway, the TSP duals will be cheaper than catback + Y. If you already have an aftermarket catback, you can sell it to recoup some costs.
Kooks headers (great choice, btw)
then decide if you want the Y = catback or TSP's duals - either should fit with that TA setup.
Duals WILL be loud but if you're not going with cats anyway, the TSP duals will be cheaper than catback + Y. If you already have an aftermarket catback, you can sell it to recoup some costs.
ID be willing to bet that with mild bolt ons and a cam you will see almost no difference in performance between duals and a nice y setup. But... I would imagine that there would be a pretty big difference in performance with a 408 though. Id do it once and do the duals. It will be worth the hassle for you.
One more thing... If your roads are as shitty in IL as they are here in MN, then you will probably want the y just for the fact that you don't have to worry about loosing your exhaust on the highway.
One more thing... If your roads are as shitty in IL as they are here in MN, then you will probably want the y just for the fact that you don't have to worry about loosing your exhaust on the highway.
I have true duals bit I voted for the y-pipe setup with a cutout. I used to have a ypipe with a cutout. I am probably alone here on this but I think LTs + y-pipe + cutout sounds amazing. I love how loud it is. My TDs are ran out the back but for some reason I still have that drone noise. My duals are 2.5" ran over the axle. I hear quite a bit of rattle. I had the exhaust shop weld the pipes together when they go over the axle. I also had him weld them to the upper phb. I'm getting a little tired of them. They sound good tho. I've been thinking of going back to a ypipe again but money is an issue.
Your exhaust shop will take care of that. The widen pips out to make them fit. I have my 2.5" tds welded to my 1 3/4 headers that I think are 3" at the bottom.
I have true duals and an x-pipe with no mufflers ran to the rear bumper. If you have it ran to the back its really not loud at all. Mine still seems quiet inside but I know everyone outside thinks different 
Have not had any trouble with cops yet...
Have not had any trouble with cops yet... 
he is not miss informed
I bet you I can make more power with a y pipe than with duals. Maybe only 1 or 2hp, but I bet I can do it with a good Flowmaster merge with a 4" outlet.
This is one of mine. I bet you an X or H wil not scavenge like this. Both banks flow parrallel instead of colliding like an x.
I bet you I can make more power with a y pipe than with duals. Maybe only 1 or 2hp, but I bet I can do it with a good Flowmaster merge with a 4" outlet.
This is one of mine. I bet you an X or H wil not scavenge like this. Both banks flow parrallel instead of colliding like an x.
Wow ignorance is bliss hahahaha I will take that bet I will go to the dyno with you if ya likem you bring the exact Y thing you pictured. We will do a back to back against my true 3 in duals with Dr gas X I guarentee I will not only make 15-20 more rwhp with my setup but it will sound a 1000 times better! I have already done a back to back with a nice Y-pipe with a 4 in outlet and used a custom collector in the Y-pipe.