Just to clarify, this product, nor a ported throttlebody, nor a bigger throttlebody, nor a smaller throttlebody, will change the fuel/air ratio. The air is metered by the MAF during WOT operation and the fuel/air mixture is held at 14.7:1 by the O2 sensors during closed loop. The throttlebody has absolutely ZERO to do with fuel/air ratio.

 

well why when i did a ported tb and ask bauer about it he said at WOT u will run a tad richer and at part throttle a tad leaner?? i was just goin by information i was told, sorry if i was wrong

 

I would certianly like to hear his explantion on that too. Are you sure you understood him correctly?

At part throttle your mixture is going to be 14.7:1 so long as you are in closed loop (this equates to an O2 sensor reading of .450mv which the PCM constantly tries to maintain during closed loop operation by way of the O2 sensors.) This is always going to be the case unless you program it differently. I would think Bauer knows this.

At WOT, the only way that you are going to run richer is if you have more fuel being added with proportionately less air. The throttlebody doesn't send signals (other than the TPS) to the PCM. It doesn't have any airflow measureing capabilities like the MAF sensor does. It's just an airvalve.

 

Does the speed at which the air is traveling affect the MAF output? If the same amount of air is traveling thorugh a samller diameter would this increase in velocity have any effect on the MAF. I ask this because the MAF is before the TB and it seems as though the air speed would only be seen in the TB and at its exit into the intake. And as stated there is no sensor in the TB to detect this increase in airspeed.

 

ok here is what i THINK after i did my tb i went from fuel trims at -2.34 to +2.34 which means it is putting in more gas at part throttle cause its running leaner right? well due to that extra gas getting dumped in there at WOT it keeps dumping in the extra gas and makes the numbers richer....honestly i dont know if what i just said was right but it kinda makes sense to me lol let me look for the email and u can see what he said...

 

Mike,



Leaner where? At idle? Or low TPS settings? That makes sense because the TB will allow more air thru the TB at low throttle settings after it’s ported. The ECU will then account for that in open loop mode, when you get to WOT the tables will be skewed to add more fuel because of the lean low end condition. That and the fact that the motor is now seeing more air at WOT is good.

thats from him

 

from what i gather with the physics i have learned is that yes if there is a smaller opening there is a higher velocity through that opening compaired to the rest, now if there is a bigger opening at the throttle body then the higher air flow would be at the maf sensor causing it to read high flowing air comming in the motor there for making it need to put more gas in cause its getting more air.....like i said this is just what i think im by no means an expert that this just giving what i think is happening...

 

Is this because the TPS voltage is lower for a given amount of air entering the engine? I think that is what I am getting from your last post. As the TPS sensor is the only sensor on the TB to effect the fuel and spark delivery. It makes sense that it would be different because you now have a lower TPS voltage for the same amount of air going through the MAF sensor. Just my thoughts. This is to much thinking for a Friday afternoon

 

Boy, you guys are really getting yourselves confused in some regards. Gotta run right now but I'll be back. Stay tuned.

(Here's one little hint: The air velocity going through the MAF will be the same at a given air volume. At a given power level the air volume is the same regardless of the opening of the TB (and therefore regardless of the velocity of the air at the point where it goes through the TB. The air can go faster through the TB without effecting the velocity through the MAF so long as the volume of the air stays the same.

Also..."The ECU will then account for that in open loop mode" I think you meant to say in closed loop mode.

Ok, more later.

 

I don't know if your confusing results of porting the TB or ideal conditions for power and part throttle operation. What you posted sounds right to me for ideal conditions but don't know if thats a result of porting the TB? Colonel explained it, just reread his post.

What Colonel is basically saying is, what goes in has to come out. As the air flows through a smaller orifice its velocity increases and pressure drops. Its the same principle that generates lift over airfoils such as the wing of an airplane.

Keep in mind I am STRICTLY talking about steady state constant conditions such as driving at 65 mph under a constant load. At WOT the air is accelerating through the TB and that falls under a different set of rules.

Colonel

I used throttle in a generic sense.

From webster

"To compress the throat of; to choke; to strangle."

an air filter does that, a MAF housing does that (don't mess with a MAF housing though unless you can dial it in with LS1 Edit, you throw off the transfer function), the shape of the TB can also have an affect which is why you port it & shape it.

Ok so how does this improve fuel economy? Hint: pay attention to the velocity profile of the airflow and the way flows AROUND the TB blade. Pay attention to whats happening within the control volume. Conditions are far from ideal and friction comes into play hence the velocity profile.

Kinda hard to explain with words but I tell you what. I have access to Finite Element Analysis (FEA) software and CAD software as well. I am a bit rusty with both but this would be a great opportunity to get cranking again. I'll prove my point with colorful pictures

stay tuned........................

 

that was the guy at bauer that sent that to me so its just what i copied out of the email.....

 

also i completely understand whta you guys are saying, this is just based off of information i was told so im not saying this is right just saying what i was told....so just correct what i was told cause i really dont know lol

the basic point i was trying to make was the MAF should have some kind of change wouldnt it? if the throttle body is bigger the same amount of air would flow through just at a different velocity, but yes that is after the MAF so the TB doesnt sense the velocity of air like you said....so i started to think, and i got nothing really lol just still KINDA think it would effect the MAF numbers SLIGHTLY but like i said this is what the guy from bauer sent in an email so he might have misinformed me. but please clear this up for me cause i would like to know, im in no way trying to prove anything just trying to learn some more stuff, just got into the computer stuff about 6 months ago and im still learning, between that and a full class load, its too much sometimes lol

 

all this over a piece of plastic.

 

hahahaha so true

 

If you would like to purchase one for testing you are more than welcome to but we don't send out free parts to be tested The LSX intake will be released soon. I'm sure there will be some questions about how much power the two versions of that intake will make. There are some new long tubes on the market and a new version of the ATI supercharger should be out the beginning of next year. All three of these products will be a good for very noticeable horsepower increases but we're not going to seen any free ones out to be tested. The manufacturers have taken care of testing, customers will end up bolting on these parts and going to the track and/or dyno. Reports for that would follow. Us along with other vendors also do testing on vehicles that we own and report the results.

Don't take this the wrong way. It's good to know what a product is going to do for you before you make the purchase but something simple is turning into rocket science.This product isn't going to help you knock a few tenths off your 1/4 time or gain a few MPH at the track. It's a $50. piece of plastic that is supposed to give you a few horsepower up top and more throttle response/power down low. I've posted what I've seen and I believe there were a few posts in the other thread.

Some people want the best of both worlds. Two of my trucks are powered by the 8.1 (496) motor. One of those is supercharged. I'm always looking for ways to get better gas mileage in those trucks and they are 150 cubic inches larger than the LS1. The Suburban has embarrassed a couple of stock LT1s and Mustangs too. Besides adding horsepower I've been able to improve gas mileage by about 20% with different modifications. The trucks also picked up horsepower too.

VaraRam's website can be seen at - http://www.vararam.com . They have info and their phone number on there.

Tom

 

yeah i didnt wanna come off like an *** man so sorry if i did, its not you i think the maker of the product should have more proven results (didnt look at the site yet so they might) true, some people may want better gas mileage but for me i dont really care much lol

 

That's ok

Here is something that was posted on one of the truck boards recently. I know, it's gas mileage related but this is his feedback -

okay, just to give you an update on what this thing actually does... all i really got out of it was 1.5MPG which is good enough for me.
>>

This is pretty much what alot of people would buy it for. Some trucks are lucky to see 8 MPG so anything helps. Most of the VR Stacks that we sell goto truck owners.

Tom
www.tbyrnemotorsports.com

 

A little more feedback then we can probably let this one die -

>>
4 weeks of running, .8 MPG solidly. Could never get over 20.8ish, now 21 with room to spare. You wont notice the Vararam on WOT bursts, where it really shows a presence is holding speed and or light tipins of the throttle. Lot less pedal effort in both cases.