The last thread was closed with only about 6000 views so I guess it's time to start a new one

You probably know how many thousands of threads there are on the internet. It's hard to remember every single thread that I post in, especially if they go on for many weeks/months at a time

I didn't read all of the posts in the last thread but someone posted towards the end that he saw a 2 tenth improvement at the track with this mod. I thought that was quite a bit but that's what he saw. I've had one in an 8.1 truck since they have been released. Mileage has improved by a solid .7-.9 for each tank since it went it. I drive the same way in the same area all of the time and pretty much know what the MPG will be for each tank when I fill up without even doing the math so it has helped that a little. Throttle response has also increased. We've probably sold over 250 of these since they came out and haven't really had any negative feedback. I believe one person called to say that he didn't feel that I got much from it. It's only rated to add a few horsepower to the peak numbers.

Tom

 

im no expert but though its cheaply made i think the part does what its intended to do.i didnt expect to feel anything from it so no disappointment there.im still interested in seeing some dyno #s for this part.here we go again.

 

Talk is cheap.

If you don't have any dyno proven gains, everyone is going to assume its crap.

So what do you have to lose by showing these proven gains?

I would take a guess, but it doesn't seem necessary at this point.

You seem to be telling everyone what a great musician you are by showing us sheet music you have written. And when we ask you to play, you go out to the car to get more sheet music.

 

Maybe if you would take the time to do a search on his site and not listen to all the BS thats posted you'd know there is a dyno graph posted on his website

He didn't design this product he only sells it, maybe you should be directing your comments to the people that actually designed the piece.

There has been one person who has posted results and thats it. I didn't read the rest of the bologny that was posted but has anybody disproved it other than by looking at it?

 

Thank you for typing my reply. I think you read my mind

 

Old post was close for one reason. A post that size is hard to follow, and after the first page there wasn't much more technical content being added (just mostly "bandwagoning").

 

I have went to the site and seen the Dyno Sheet. What I saw was an increase in Torque. That would lead me to believe that throttle response would also improve. It is torque that you feel when first getting in the throttle at lower RPM's. I would like to see more Dyno results from a variety of combinations. If I dont I will not loose any sleep though. I personally have not purchased one, this does not mean that I wont. Somebody went to a lot of trouble to make what I am sure they saw as a product with benefits. I have not seen where they claimed incrediable hp gains just an improvement and the claim was that the most gains would be seen under the curve. I took this as the RPM range where torque was more dominat than HP. I do have to agree that for all out high RPM hp a higher flowing TB would seem to be the best. Has anyone put one of these on a flow bench verses a stock TB? Just my .02's worth.

 

Tom, I have an idea, send me one. I'll have it dynoed at MTI with a heads/cam car against a ported TB in a scientific manner. If it proves itself to be better than a ported TB, I'll buy it and I'll put it on my "recommend list". Either way, the results will be unbiased, done by a well respected and trusted shop, and they will be posted here. Whaddaya say?

 

Well.... there we go

Game, Set... Lets get the Match over with.

chris

 

If you are going to look at the dyno graph for the VR stack, then look at the AFR. Do you think that might have something to do with the HP gains... I'd say a 10:1 AFR vs a 15:1 AFR might skew your results....

 

I know. That's why I put a at the end. The post was pretty long.

That is a good request! It might be something that is better directed to the manufacturer. They might be interested in having some independent testing done.

 

Honestly, I'm not concerned enough about whether this thing works or not to go asking the manufacturer for a freebie. I thought you might want to help us settle this debate since you stand to sell ALOT of these things if they're proven to work. All you gotta do is box one up and ship it to MTI. I'll get with Jayson and take care of the rest.

 

and he said if he likes it he would buy it so you wouldnt be loosing any money, if not you could sell it as "used" but with only a few dyno runs on it, it would be "like new" and only go for a couple $ less.

 

LOL.. guess that's really two reasons

 

Well gee wiz his own website says it works? Well sign me up then!

And what else would be on the website? A dyno graph showing it reduced power?

Well they aren't here, are they? Are they the ones telling this board how well they work? When they do, they'll be subjected to the same skepticism.

When you go to car a dealership, do you ask to speak directly to GM engineers when you have questions about the car, or do you expect the salesmen to be able to answer the most basic questions?

Well, for what its worth, the salesmen are pretty worthless as a source of information.

Hell, I'd be impressed if it was better than a stock TB.

Maybe you could compare it against a stock, home ported, and professionally ported one?

 

.......and then there is a guy like me who wouldn't mind an easily reversible modification that picks up some throttle response/gas mileage when street driving, then be able to remove the thing when I go to the track. I dunno, should every modification be judged by dyno or track numbers?? I think sometimes street friendly mods go un-noticed or get bashed because of this dyno or track perspective.

 

Ok, if it increased MPG I'd be REALLY impressed. But logically, I can't think of one reason that it should. It takes a certian amount of air mixed with a certain amount of fuel to move a given car down the road at 65 MPH. If the engine needs more air for some reason to maintain 65 MPH then there's this little restriction called the throttle blade that will be opened to maintain 65 MPH. The restriction seen by the engine will be the same at cruise speed regardless of restrictions before the throttle blade. Yes, that's right, I don't believe a dirty air filter is going to cost you MPG either. No matter what you do, the restriction during cruise is ALWAYS going to be the throttle blade.

You want throttle response? Open the throttle quicker or change the throttle cam so that it opens more for a given input.

 

Out of the throttles you mentioned (air filter, TB blade, TB inlet) your eliminating one. Or at a minimum reducing the pressure drop across the throttle body inlet.

This helps improve volumetric efficiency. More air is entering the chambers so less fuel is required, hence better fuel economy.

 

You totally lost me there. "Out of the throttles you mentioned..." "You're eliminating one." Eliminating one what?

What helps to improve volumetric efficiency? The cylinder is going to suck in the same amount of air during a given cruise condition even if you installed a 60mm throttle body which would be a HUGE restriction at WOT but wouldn't be a restriction at all during a steady state light throttle cruise. We're NOT talking about WOT operation so the VE is NOT going to be effected by restrictions before the TB. The cylinder doesn't know the difference. You're going to have THE SAME amount of air entering the cylinder (therefore you have the same VE) at a given cruise speed regardless of the intake restriction so long as the restriction isn't so great that even a wide open throttle body can't flow enough air.

I know this sounds weird because we generally think in terms of WOT, not part throttle. But think about it for a minute, what are the cylinders really sucking against at cruise...the back side of a mostly closed throttle blade. The engine is only requiring but a mere fraction of what it demands at WOT.

 

ok so let me see, it gives you better fuel economy from letting more air in....ok.....yeah my lid and filter and maf ends did this too but the car ran lean as hell causing detonation....so does the cause detonation from leaning out the air fuel ratio too much?for it to work good wouldnt more gas need to be dumped in there to get the hp i should have? and doing that would eliminate the gas mileage claim....ANYWAY....i dont know one person on this site that is concerned with fuel mileage if i wanted better gas mileage i would lean out my air fuel with programing or get a HONDA not a V8.....DUH!!! if your worried about gas mileage you shouldnt be on this board, this is for performance. since when do you compair how much better your fuel mileage is? u dont u compair power and 1/4 mile times......the fact is people wanna see rear numbers on real car....like a part i buy i ask for guys first hand experience on here....if its good i get it if not i dont. i dont know why tbyrne wont send one to get tested. why? maybe they are afraid it wont perform and it wont sell and everyone will want their money back!??!!??! just a thought. if it would give no top end gain but a good under the curve gain i woudl get it and im sure a few hundred more would....what would u have to lose right? sales cause when it gets tested it would prove itslef IMO

where is a thread in here that asks how to get better gas mileage, might be a few but most as for more power, more power you need to adjust your fuel intake and your gas mileage wont improve....why does everyone say you wanna run a little rich than lean....so to what was stated this would not be a good product cause it leans out the fuel right?? yeah i know it can be fixed im just tryin to make a point. dont wanan see to come across like an *** but the simple fact is: IF TBYRNE WANTS TO SELL IT AND THE BELIEVE IT WILL PERFORM WELL THEY WOULD HAVE SENT ONE OUT TO GET DYNO RESULTS A WHILE AGO FROM SOMEONE ON THIS BOARD. word of mouth is the best way to sell if it works for someone else other will get it. didnt that improvement in the 1/4 come with MAF ends too?????