After getting off the phone with Schwanke , i was told i may be wasting my money getting a ATI Damper. I have a 2000 Ls1 with a ASA Lingenfelter Single stage dry sump that runs off the AC drive. Lingenfelter originally built them with a 60% underdrive and a ATI Damper,,,, according the Schwanke... As im on a extremely low budget( PRO-Am Drifter) He told me i would be just fine buying the Underdrive hub and buy the ATI damper whenever or not at all. He told me they built plenty of LS1 road racing motors 500 +hp with no Dampers at all and that its pretty unneccasary unless im spinning super high revs and super high HP. Just wanting some confirmation from other people ,, but im pretty inclined to believe Schwanke!!!! Not that i dont want the insurance,, just like i said my budget is non existent, and just blew my entire tax return at TEXAS Speed on a cam kit

 

I wouldn't run without the damper. It absorbs engine vibrations. Without it I would think you would kill bearings quick.

 

...and supposedly one could actually crack their crank (even at low revs) running without one.

I would at least run a new, OEM/Delco stocker on there.

 

I would run some type of damper/balancer, even a oem unit, do not run without one.

 

You will also blow all the oil out the front of the engine, the pulley seals the timing cover up.

 

Uhhh... A sponsor told you this?

Is the information not being relayed correctly?

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the OP is saying he was told not to run a crank pulley -- just that he didn't need to spend $400-$500 on an ATI Superdamper.

If you're really broke, I'm sure you could get a used stock crank pulley for cheap or free. Otherwise, go with SLP/Proform or ASP for under $200.

 

Ws6project... Call them and get an SLP.

If ^ was correct. Maybe we just all read it wrong.

 

Correct i was told that I did not need to run a DAMPER at all. The only reason im changing the stock one out is to to put a 60% underdrive hub/pulley so that my dry sump pump is running at the right speed. I was running a stock damper/pulley before, but apparently i was over speeding my pump quite a bit.. Which is why my pump was cavitating. I was told that running w/o a damper would not be bad at all and that many race car engines they build do not run dampers. I personally think that its probably a good idea to go ahead and buy the ati damper ,, but the season starts in a month and i am very low on money and its something i can easily add later.

I see no reason for Schwanke to mislead me in this as I may potentially purchase the parts from them. They are a extremely reputable company and build a lot of ls1 road race engines . I was hoping someone from Lingenfelter might chime in on this.

 

I just cannot see a screamer road race LSx not running a great damper/balancer even if it is internally balanced right on down to a millionth of a microgram!!!!!!!!
(As even the MOST perfectly balanced build STILL produces {2nd order?} crank harmonics just due to the nature of the cylinder firing pulses, which could eventually/potentially crack even a forged crank. )

But I guess if they say it happens.

 

Hey kettheyoang, welcome to LS1tech!

If any shop told me to run any engine without a damper, it'd be the last thing they told me. I'd turn right around and walk out never to consider them a "proper" shop again.

Suffice to say, there's plenty of reasons that a damper is required on an engine.

As you're on a tight budget, at minimum run a stock damper and keep your revs below 5,500 RPM.

 

I think demonspeed is correct.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ketthevoang

He told me they built plenty of LS1 road racing motors 500 +hp with no Dampers at all and that its pretty unnecessary...

From post number one.

 

The ATI damper is the best one made for the sort of punishment a drifting motor gets. Forget what Schwanke told you and spend the money for it. Your motor will thank you by lasting a lot longer. I don't really think they meant for you to run the motor without a damper. I think they probably meant without an aftermarket damper.

 

a few of you could reread the first post, he is pretty specific about possibly running a hub with no damper.
I would tend to agree with Paul far as never going back to a vendor who said such a thing.

 

I have no doubt guy from Schwanke engines knew what he was talking about. I would not hesitate to run one of their Built motors in my car ,, granted i could ever afford one, or they sponsor me

Also talked to Jason Haines from Lingefelter and this is what I got back....

Needing a damper depends on the engine. What RPM range. The higher the RPM range (the broader the RPM range) the more likely you are to need it. For drag racing it becomes less of an issue since you don't tend to sit at one RPM for long. For durability applications it is more important (circle track/road racing/marine).

The more horsepower you make, the more likely you are to need it.

The heavier your driveline is, the more you will need it.

We did a test for GM during the ASA program when they were going to switch over to the LS6 engines (just before ASA went out of business). On a lightweight circle track car with a small diameter, lightweight clutch (low inertia) and lightweight transmission etc. on a basically stock LS6 engine (with headers making a little over 400 hp and going to 6400 RPM) a damper was found not to be needed.

The heavier the driveline and the more hp and rpm range you have, the more likely you are to need one.

Quote:




HOWEVER!!!! I have a heavy steel driveline, stock steel flywheel, and i sit at 6200 rpms till my tires blow sooooooo...... ATI Damper it is! When it comes to the safety of my motor i will errrr with the side of caution. One missed race and i could be out of running for my professional license, and thats the dream so i consider the 400$ as a insurance premium for my dreams..plus i just won 500$ in the weekly poker game Guess god wanted me to have one

 

Lets just say for a moment that it's OK to run an engine without a damper. what advantage is gained?

 

Cost, space, less rotating mass......... For me it would be just cost.

 

This seems silly.

Cost: If you can't afford a balancer, you shouldn't be trying to build/drive a race car.

Space: So, you'd cut off the crank snout to save space?

Mass: It's this very mass that reduces harmful harmonics for the crankshaft.

 

if you can't swing a damper your racing career will be short and heartbreaking

I can get the idea of reducing rotating mass. I have thought of putting mine on a lathe a cutting down the ac pulley since I don't have ac. However I can't see the point of investing in a motor and not having the insurance of a nice damper.