point taken. i guess i just dont understand spending my hard earned money on such little gains. if shorties were like 250 coated it wouldnt be bad but jba nickel coated headers are 500+. i can only assume that the BBK's are similarly priced. for a 98-99 car you'll see the most gains relative with shorties but your almost better off swapping in some 00-02 stock manifolds since they flow almost as well.

 

For what it’s worth, I'm running a set of p&p Stock exhaust manifolds with a catted RT-Y (no plans for LTs). I picked up 8rwhp and 7lbs of torque. I was tempted to go the shorty route but heard too much criticism and they are a little pricey. I'm still curious but I agree with jrp, if they were 250 & coated I'd be a lot more interested.

 

Ah, the anger against shorties runs wild. Shorty headers are the one topic where most people have no clue what they are talking about. The comparison between a pair of shorties over a complete header system including a y-pipe is dumb. What most people dont realize with the shorties is that they still bolt up to the other big problems with the stock exhaust meaning the cats, and the y-pipe. The other main problem that needs to be adjusted on a set of shorties before they are installed is the collector opening. The stock collectors are 2.5 in on the driver and 2.25 on the passanger. This is not rocket science but a 3in. collector on longtubes is gonna flow more than a 2.25 collector on a shorty. After the small collectors are opened up and the piping after the collector is opened to accept the larger size, there will be even more gains with shorties. And my gains of 10 rwhp throughout the powerband without modifying the collectors and without tuning(car went way rich after install) on a stock car are obvious of the improvement over stock.

 

Again ... depends on your goals.

2ndGenWs6Owner: Now that you're probably 10 times more confused, than when you started this thread, did any of this help you make a decision? Just choose what you think will satisfy your long-term goals. There will be many arguements over other things like shorties/LT's, MAF's, etc.. Just be thankful (as I am) that there is SOOO much experience on here to show you the differences in products the way the manufacturers advertise them and the folks out here in the field who have real-world experience with the stuff. Now, at least you know all the pro's and cons and can pick what suits your needs best. We all had to start somewhere. There WAS one very clear thing that someone said ,which you need to consider with shorties .... bolting up the Y-pipe. My JBA Cat4wards 3" collector bolted up to the Random Technolgies 3" pipe perfectly, however, on the passenger-side, the righ tside CAT section pipe was 4 inches too short from bolting to the Y-Pipe and I had to take it to a reputable welding shop to have a 4-inch section of pipe welded into that section to allow it to bolt up to the Y-pipe. If you can, try to get a combo from the same company, i.e., MAC headers and MAC Y-pipe. It's a real pain in the a** modifying the piping if it doesn't match up.

Wow! What feedback!!! I LOVE this board and fought in 2 combat zones (Panama Invasion/ Desert Storm) ... US Army retired. This board and the freedom to express our opinions proves to me that every drop of sweat was SOOOO worth every second of the twenty years that I was a soldier.

I have one question for you, JANTZER98SS > What sort of gains can I expect to see with my all bolt-ons LS1 engine with my JBA shorties, if I buy the ported TB that I wrote and asked you about this morning?

 

Ill throw in my opinion, I wont flame shorties cause i have not experienced them on a ls1 powered vehicle, but i have installed plenty on friends' mustangs. I personally went the long tube route this time. from the 6 months i researched the topic, long tubes were the way to go for me. but then again, emissions are easy for me to pass as my best friend runs a few shops locally.

You are in a different situation. CA smog laws are very strict from what i can tell. But I think this will come down to, do what you want to do and make the best of it. If shorties are the way to go, research via google or something other than this site if all you are finding is people giving you the big thumbs down when it comes to shorties.

Me personally...I would never pay 300-700 bucks for a set of shorty headers. for that kind of money id opt for a gmmg exhaust if you are just going for sound or perhaps a nitrous kit and just make power out of that money. It really depends on what you are shooting for here. shorties will net you some power, but nothing worth the hassle of installing headers let alone the digits its gonna run you to do so.

for what its worth, before purchasing headers i told myself i would not modify the stock y pipe or upgrade the manifolds...so i went with a nitrous kit and a hooker catback. I gained a great sound (and borla sounds awesome too i think thats what you said you have already), and another 100 rwhp via nitrous system.

with all that bs out of the way...do what you feel is right for your car. at the very least you live and learn from the mods you make. as well as, at the very least you will gain sound out of shorties and highflow cats.

 

Very interesting, even the 02 manifolds are not optimized. You have to respect the choice of shorties for various reasons, however they measure. After cleaning out the new BBKs they would offer real gains, although a pricy alternative. I believe tuned shorties in a controlled environment will produce the same top end rush as LTs.

 

Thanks to everyone for their input. I have to respect the fact that shorties and LTs are about the same price, and I am a big believer in hp/$. Right now my only car is my T/A, but once I graduate from Cal State Northridge next May, I will be making enough $$$ to buy a 2nd car. Therefore LTs are not out of the question. I just wanted the wisdom and experience of this board to help determine if shorties are worth the $$$. After reading everyone's opinion and loooking at dynos (#s don't lie), I actually think I will be going with LTs, but after I get it smogged in October. That way I have 2 years before I have to worry about it, and as mentioned before I will have a 2nd car by then.

 

good choice

 

If that's your decision, it's certainly respected ... there were never any bad choices to begin with ... hehehe! Good luck and I second jrp's motion ...

 

Sounds very reasonable to me...