patriot performance flow #s
Again real world vs all the stuff you read on the all knowing computer.
And how exactly is 74u's example more real world than the others? I mean we've all read it on the internet so it's just as "real world" as any other thread created in the dyno results section.
Patriots were a decent budget option for those of us who couldn't afford or can't afford expensive aftermarket castings
I'm a fan of ported 243s on a budget, I run something like that myself. But besides 74u's example I've never seen a ported 243 head come within 10hp of a TFS 225. Much less beat up on it. So seeing 1 "real world" as you call it example of such is not going to all of a sudden make that the norm.
How are all the threads on aftermarket heads not real world? Did they take place on another planet?
And how exactly is 74u's example more real world than the others? I mean we've all read it on the internet so it's just as "real world" as any other thread created in the dyno results section.
I'll agree to that. But to say that they (even hand finished) are even remotely close to actual aftermarket castings is pure BS. Even more so when it's said that those heads "beat up on" TFS 225s or the like.
I'm a fan of ported 243s on a budget, I run something like that myself. But besides 74u's example I've never seen a ported 243 head come within 10hp of a TFS 225. Much less beat up on it. So seeing 1 "real world" as you call it example of such is not going to all of a sudden make that the norm.
And how exactly is 74u's example more real world than the others? I mean we've all read it on the internet so it's just as "real world" as any other thread created in the dyno results section.
I'll agree to that. But to say that they (even hand finished) are even remotely close to actual aftermarket castings is pure BS. Even more so when it's said that those heads "beat up on" TFS 225s or the like.
I'm a fan of ported 243s on a budget, I run something like that myself. But besides 74u's example I've never seen a ported 243 head come within 10hp of a TFS 225. Much less beat up on it. So seeing 1 "real world" as you call it example of such is not going to all of a sudden make that the norm.
No one said it was the norm. I've seen Patriots make power. I've seen TFS heads make power. I've seen AFR heads make power. Stating one is better than the other based on your vast Internet technical knowledge is simply put bullshit.
I provided an opinion based on numbers and 2 separate cars with the same heads......hand finished patriots. One has run high nines on squeeze, one has made over 450 with the same heads on a sbe 5.7 ls6. Saying they are junk is simply not fair. I wish you guys would spout some useful advice once in a while instead of the same old mindless dribble. They are a decent budget head......I'd pay 800 dollars for patriots, have them hand finished for a few hundred bucks, and make the same if not more power than heads costing over a grand more. The same applys to ls3 heads.....the same people spout off that they are junk, intake valve is way to big, runner size is to large etc etc etc. so turn down the ******* valve to suit your bore size(which will unshroud in theory) and you have a cheap set of heads that will outflow almost all of the "normal" cathedral aftermarket stuff on the market.
Again until you build something notable with the parts your pushing don't push what you would build on people. People come on here looking for advice not your dream build.
Oh and BTW ever heard of a ls6 cam make 474 atrw.....I have. Hand finished patriots with Greg Good finished ports. My guess is they cost more than a set of out of the box "good" American heads......but I doubt tfs or afr heads will make that amount of power with a laughably small camshaft like the ls6.
Yep. I mean everyone is entitled to an opinion but it doesn't make it a fact. Funny thing is imagine how many of the builders they are pulling this info from have had a bunch of duds. You think they post that on here......lmao.
hand finished patriots
I'd pay 800 dollars for patriots, have them hand finished for a few hundred bucks
Hand finished patriots with Greg Good finished ports.
So let's be honest, out of the box Patriot heads are as close to junk as you can get. Now put those in the hands of someone like Gregg Good or other established porters and sure they can become good performers, but it's not like PP put out a head straight from the dremel factory in China and made those kinds of numbers.
That's what some of us are trying to argue here, because what you two have (or have seen) are far far far from the heads that Joe Schmoe is going to get when purchasing Patriot Performance 243 heads off eBay or the forum classifieds.
To be fair, at that point they are not really "Patriot Performance heads". They are basically 243 heads ported by GG (or whomever) that were *once* 243 PP ported heads. But that doesn't mean anything if the whole runner and chamber were completely re-designed. Basically you just had a more expensive 243 casting that someone had worked before instead of it being a stock casting.
So let's be honest, out of the box Patriot heads are as close to junk as you can get. Now put those in the hands of someone like Gregg Good or other established porters and sure they can become good performers, but it's not like PP put out a head straight from the dremel factory in China and made those kinds of numbers.
That's what some of us are trying to argue here, because what you two have (or have seen) are far far far from the heads that Joe Schmoe is going to get when purchasing Patriot Performance 243 heads off eBay or the forum classifieds.
So let's be honest, out of the box Patriot heads are as close to junk as you can get. Now put those in the hands of someone like Gregg Good or other established porters and sure they can become good performers, but it's not like PP put out a head straight from the dremel factory in China and made those kinds of numbers.
That's what some of us are trying to argue here, because what you two have (or have seen) are far far far from the heads that Joe Schmoe is going to get when purchasing Patriot Performance 243 heads off eBay or the forum classifieds.
If they were really junk then they couldn't be saved. They would be ported to the point of no return. I don't believe 74u had hand finished patriots. Besides at this point why does it matter? The op asked for flow numbers.....I provided them (although from patriots website not from my flow bench so how accurate that is I dont know.). Yours and others opinions including mine aren't warranted in the thread. Reason I interjected mine because here this dude is thinking he has the worst heads in the world now. His question was answered so why tell him his heads are junk? To be a opinionated argumentative *******? Again you can ask ten different people how to arrive at a horsepower goal and ten people will give you ten different answers.
Last edited by HISS; Apr 6, 2015 at 11:46 AM.
To be fair, at that point they are not really "Patriot Performance heads". They are basically 243 heads ported by GG (or whomever) that were *once* 243 PP ported heads. But that doesn't mean anything if the whole runner and chamber were completely re-designed. Basically you just had a more expensive 243 casting that someone had worked before instead of it being a stock casting.
So let's be honest, out of the box Patriot heads are as close to junk as you can get. Now put those in the hands of someone like Gregg Good or other established porters and sure they can become good performers, but it's not like PP put out a head straight from the dremel factory in China and made those kinds of numbers.
That's what some of us are trying to argue here, because what you two have (or have seen) are far far far from the heads that Joe Schmoe is going to get when purchasing Patriot Performance 243 heads off eBay or the forum classifieds.
So let's be honest, out of the box Patriot heads are as close to junk as you can get. Now put those in the hands of someone like Gregg Good or other established porters and sure they can become good performers, but it's not like PP put out a head straight from the dremel factory in China and made those kinds of numbers.
That's what some of us are trying to argue here, because what you two have (or have seen) are far far far from the heads that Joe Schmoe is going to get when purchasing Patriot Performance 243 heads off eBay or the forum classifieds.
Just to make sure I have it straight - you are saying Patriot acquires GM 243 castings, then sends them to China where someone uses a dremel to hog out a 245cc runner. Then the heads are shipped back to the USA and sold as CNC ported heads, then someone like Greg Good somehow shrinks the port back down to acceptable size and shape and they make decent power.
Please keep going. You are doing a much better job making our case then we ever could.
For the record, my PP stage 3's were cleanly cnc'd runners with no other work after they left patriot. I'm not here to tell everybody they are the best head on the market...only here to make sure the OP doesn't get tricked into thinking the heads he has are garbage (like I was). If he decides to drop a bunch of money on something else at least he has heard some opinions from others who have done it...not just internet "repeater stations" and fan boys.
Last edited by 74u; Apr 6, 2015 at 06:45 PM.
i appreciate all the advice guys, i knew they weren't the "best" heads but i got em for $700 from a friend so i figured i'd use them till i had the cash for better ones, and then just resell them again to someone else in my current position lol. but now i have more info then i had before thanks again.
just a side note, these are CNC ported, no handwork that i can see.
just a side note, these are CNC ported, no handwork that i can see.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
From: Anchorage Alaska
My 02 SS has been running the PP stage 3's with an old tsp 231/237 cam for many years now. They make 425rwhp with full bolt ons, not earth shattering but what I expected for a budget head with no problems to date. Have them checked out and enjoy the good deal.