patriot performance flow #s
patriot performance flow #s picked up some patriot performance stage 3 243 heads from a friend, he bought then from another guy who sold him the entire motor, i just wanted to know what the specs were on them i cant find much since i guess they are out of business now.
They will fit on my block its a 4" bore lq9 I'm more interested in the flow numbers and specs on them, iv had 0 luck Google searching them
Last edited by haulass350; Apr 2, 2015 at 10:10 PM.
They have a 2.08 x 1.60 valves and 64cc chambers (unless someone milled them). I believe they flow in the low 320's. I had a set and they were pretty good. Lot better than everyone gives them credit for.
I believe they flow in the low 320's. I had a set and they were pretty good. Lot better than everyone gives them credit for.
Not that they're bad, but if OP you got them for a good price they might be worth to run. I'd sure as heck get them checked by a machine shop for runner and chamber size.
i'lll prolly run them for a while till next year or so or until i get the 'itch' again lol they will raise my compression half a point and flow more, so i figured they cant be too bad over my bone stock 317s.
Doesn't say much about their performance just looking at .600+ flow numbers. And for a hogged out 245cc intake port and huge 2.08 valves that's doesn't exactly scream efficiency. TEAs with much smaller ports and valves flow just that.
Not that they're bad, but if OP you got them for a good price they might be worth to run. I'd sure as heck get them checked by a machine shop for runner and chamber size.
Not that they're bad, but if OP you got them for a good price they might be worth to run. I'd sure as heck get them checked by a machine shop for runner and chamber size.
The Patriot runners aren't 245cc either (227cc I believe). Sorry, but the Patriots hold their own and cost a hell of a lot less than most.
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Coincidentally I sold a set of Patriot III's for $600 to buy TEA TFS 225's for $2700 and gained nothing. No RWHP, no MPH.
Not only that, but AFR/TFS/Mast would all go out of business since anyone could just run $600 243 heads and make the same kind of power while Patriot Performance would be swimming in money. Oh wait...who's in business still and who's not?
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Verdad Gallardo If you didn't gain any power from that swap, especially on a stroker engine then you have other issues.
Not only that, but AFR/TFS/Mast would all go out of business since anyone could just run $600 243 heads and make the same kind of power while Patriot Performance would be swimming in money. Oh wait...who's in business still and who's not?
Not only that, but AFR/TFS/Mast would all go out of business since anyone could just run $600 243 heads and make the same kind of power while Patriot Performance would be swimming in money. Oh wait...who's in business still and who's not?
Patriots ar $1600'ish new for ported 243's...I sold my well used set for $600 because I bought into the hype folks like you are spreading.
You should read the dyno thread and particularly Chris Frank's comments on my chosen head "upgrade". He pretty much said a well worked 243 will beat op on TFS 225's...and what do you know, he was right
Last edited by 74u; Apr 4, 2015 at 11:48 AM.
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Flow + Velocity = Power.
Flow by itself without velocity is garbage sales fluff. Like HP figures with no mention of TQ or curve.
Flow is a good hook word for sites like these where everyone wants a quick, understandable answer that they can parrot.
Velocity is rarely mentioned in these threads. Put a big enough hole in a 853 head and it will flow great too. The air speed created by the engine by way of the port and chamber design of the head, not the artificial flow bench, could be argued to be far more important than the magic "flow" word.
Flow by itself without velocity is garbage sales fluff. Like HP figures with no mention of TQ or curve.
Flow is a good hook word for sites like these where everyone wants a quick, understandable answer that they can parrot.
Velocity is rarely mentioned in these threads. Put a big enough hole in a 853 head and it will flow great too. The air speed created by the engine by way of the port and chamber design of the head, not the artificial flow bench, could be argued to be far more important than the magic "flow" word.
Flow number listed on patriots site were in the low 304/229 @600. These were a good low cost option that made decent power when they came out. They came with .650 lift gold springs as well. Several people have passed around a couple hand finished sets in my area and the have all made over 450 on a load bearing chassis dyno. They are now being sold under the name promaxx if I recall correctly.
Flow + Velocity = Power.
Flow by itself without velocity is garbage sales fluff. Like HP figures with no mention of TQ or curve.
Flow is a good hook word for sites like these where everyone wants a quick, understandable answer that they can parrot.
Velocity is rarely mentioned in these threads. Put a big enough hole in a 853 head and it will flow great too. The air speed created by the engine by way of the port and chamber design of the head, not the artificial flow bench, could be argued to be far more important than the magic "flow" word.
Flow by itself without velocity is garbage sales fluff. Like HP figures with no mention of TQ or curve.
Flow is a good hook word for sites like these where everyone wants a quick, understandable answer that they can parrot.
Velocity is rarely mentioned in these threads. Put a big enough hole in a 853 head and it will flow great too. The air speed created by the engine by way of the port and chamber design of the head, not the artificial flow bench, could be argued to be far more important than the magic "flow" word.
I don't think Patriots are the end all of ported heads, but they don't leave much if anything on the table compared to the much more expensive alternatives everybody pushes around here.
I only chimed in here because I think the OP deserves to hear both sides of the story. I listened to all the BS and practically gave away my "junk" patriot heads so I could get the TEA heads...all for nothing.
Who has a better/more profitable business model has nothing to do with who has a good, or better product.
You should read the dyno thread and particularly Chris Frank's comments on my chosen head "upgrade". He pretty much said a well worked 243 will beat op on TFS 225's...and what do you know, he was right
When I talked to him about porting some 243 heads for me he said those are garbage and I should get some aftermarket heads if I want to make real hp. Ported 243s are for amateurs who can't afford real heads.
I can't tell you why everybody else buys them, but in my case I bought them as a no brainer upgrade to my Patriots based on all the promotion by this site's membership and vendors.
I fight this fight daily.....74u you won't win because you have built something and actually have real world numbers and experience to back what your saying........the Internet ls1 Tech ***** will prove you wrong by quoting countless threads of bullshit they read on this site and others.
Not everyone can afford to spend 2k plus on heads and I doubt the ones saying you need them to make power are the ones even running them.
I was talked into cathedral port tea ported stock castings for my build.....and was disappointed as a result. It's my own fault for listening to Internet bs instead of the shops who do this daily to make a living. I hope eventually the two or three people spewing this bad advice will take their own advice and build some junk that doesn't run. Maybe they will swallow some pride and admit maybe just maybe someone stated facts from real world experience and didn't quote magazine articles paid for by sponsors, and Internet threads also paid for by sponsors.
Not everyone can afford to spend 2k plus on heads and I doubt the ones saying you need them to make power are the ones even running them.
I was talked into cathedral port tea ported stock castings for my build.....and was disappointed as a result. It's my own fault for listening to Internet bs instead of the shops who do this daily to make a living. I hope eventually the two or three people spewing this bad advice will take their own advice and build some junk that doesn't run. Maybe they will swallow some pride and admit maybe just maybe someone stated facts from real world experience and didn't quote magazine articles paid for by sponsors, and Internet threads also paid for by sponsors.
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"Real world" experience was a friends 2005 GTO LS2 M6 making 400whp even with a 236/236 cam, Paceshitter LTs and hogged out Patriot 243s. While building a fuel line setup for his FAST swap I got a look at the ports and it looked like someone went wild with a Dremel cutting out as much as possible. A big hole doesn't mean power.
Link me threads to some of the fastest LS cars out there running Patriot garbage. 243s are good heads but they need the right CNC profile to work as intended on these budget max effort builds. Advanced Induction and FlowTech have good profiles with many hours into development. Patriot was Chinese garbage Dremel work. You didn't make any extra power on the swap? Sucks for you. Unless it was the same dyno on the same day not more than hours apart it doesn't much matter anyway as density altitude and mechanical dyno fluctuations can vary wildly even with "SAE correction".
Nobody is going to convince you out of your quest to run cheap **** and consider it good. That doesn't change the facts that flow numbers by themselves mean dick and well designed cylinder heads is much more of a science than you give it credit for. Good luck with your beaters.
Link me threads to some of the fastest LS cars out there running Patriot garbage. 243s are good heads but they need the right CNC profile to work as intended on these budget max effort builds. Advanced Induction and FlowTech have good profiles with many hours into development. Patriot was Chinese garbage Dremel work. You didn't make any extra power on the swap? Sucks for you. Unless it was the same dyno on the same day not more than hours apart it doesn't much matter anyway as density altitude and mechanical dyno fluctuations can vary wildly even with "SAE correction".
Nobody is going to convince you out of your quest to run cheap **** and consider it good. That doesn't change the facts that flow numbers by themselves mean dick and well designed cylinder heads is much more of a science than you give it credit for. Good luck with your beaters.
I fight this fight daily.....74u you won't win because you have built something and actually have real world numbers and experience to back what your saying
"Real world" experience was a friends 2005 GTO LS2 M6 making 400whp even with a 236/236 cam, Paceshitter LTs and hogged out Patriot 243s. While building a fuel line setup for his FAST swap I got a look at the ports and it looked like someone went wild with a Dremel cutting out as much as possible. A big hole doesn't mean power.
Link me threads to some of the fastest LS cars out there running Patriot garbage. 243s are good heads but they need the right CNC profile to work as intended on these budget max effort builds. Advanced Induction and FlowTech have good profiles with many hours into development. Patriot was Chinese garbage Dremel work. You didn't make any extra power on the swap? Sucks for you. Unless it was the same dyno on the same day not more than hours apart it doesn't much matter anyway as density altitude and mechanical dyno fluctuations can vary wildly even with "SAE correction".
Nobody is going to convince you out of your quest to run cheap **** and consider it good. That doesn't change the facts that flow numbers by themselves mean dick and well designed cylinder heads is much more of a science than you give it credit for. Good luck with your beaters.
Link me threads to some of the fastest LS cars out there running Patriot garbage. 243s are good heads but they need the right CNC profile to work as intended on these budget max effort builds. Advanced Induction and FlowTech have good profiles with many hours into development. Patriot was Chinese garbage Dremel work. You didn't make any extra power on the swap? Sucks for you. Unless it was the same dyno on the same day not more than hours apart it doesn't much matter anyway as density altitude and mechanical dyno fluctuations can vary wildly even with "SAE correction".
Nobody is going to convince you out of your quest to run cheap **** and consider it good. That doesn't change the facts that flow numbers by themselves mean dick and well designed cylinder heads is much more of a science than you give it credit for. Good luck with your beaters.
So 1 whole example where Patriot heads make the same power as aftermarket ones and all of a sudden that's the norm? Doesn't matter that there are hundreds of threads about aftermarket heads destroying 243s, that one example is now the gold standard and nothing else matters?
Your logic is flawed. There is always more than one way to make power, I prefer the cheapest and most effective route not the I have the biggest wallet and I still get outrun by budget builds.