LS1/6 Swap - Small Upgrade Advice
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LS1/6 Swap - Small Upgrade Advice Hey guys. Here is what I have:
- 70 Chevelle, pro-touring with all aftermarket suspension
- 02 Trans Am LS1/4L60 dropout with 39k miles (LS6 block w/ 241 heads)
- MR LS swap kit including oil pan, trans mount and engine mounts
- MR long tube headers
- Will have a tune
Here's what I plan to use this car for:
- Driving and enjoying, as an everyday car
- No snow
- Long trips (mandates decent MPG)
- Wife will drive occasionally
I have been searching for a few weeks and I would like your advice on the following:
1. Can non-corvette 243 head stock springs handle the GM hot cam? I can't find specs on what the stock springs, say off of a 5.3L Silverado, max lift is
2. Is the LS2 timing chain worth the money for a daily driver? I will never see a track or strip..... burnouts and light to light runs, yes
3. What HP/TQ would I see vs the 330-345 it has now?
4. Am I correct in thinking a 3200 stall is correct?
Please don't tell me that there are better cams and heads out there providing better HP. I completely know that but really just want to hit that 425hp line and maintain a driver friendly car that will still cruise down the highway at 18mpg. This combo seems the most cost effective unless (under $1000 buying freshened 243 heads) unless you guys know something I don't.
Thanks again, this forum rocks!
- 70 Chevelle, pro-touring with all aftermarket suspension
- 02 Trans Am LS1/4L60 dropout with 39k miles (LS6 block w/ 241 heads)
- MR LS swap kit including oil pan, trans mount and engine mounts
- MR long tube headers
- Will have a tune
Here's what I plan to use this car for:
- Driving and enjoying, as an everyday car
- No snow
- Long trips (mandates decent MPG)
- Wife will drive occasionally
I have been searching for a few weeks and I would like your advice on the following:
1. Can non-corvette 243 head stock springs handle the GM hot cam? I can't find specs on what the stock springs, say off of a 5.3L Silverado, max lift is
2. Is the LS2 timing chain worth the money for a daily driver? I will never see a track or strip..... burnouts and light to light runs, yes
3. What HP/TQ would I see vs the 330-345 it has now?
4. Am I correct in thinking a 3200 stall is correct?
Please don't tell me that there are better cams and heads out there providing better HP. I completely know that but really just want to hit that 425hp line and maintain a driver friendly car that will still cruise down the highway at 18mpg. This combo seems the most cost effective unless (under $1000 buying freshened 243 heads) unless you guys know something I don't.
Thanks again, this forum rocks!
Pretty sure the 243's all shipped with 550 lift springs regardless of application.
I don't think the freshened 243 heads plus GM hot cam will get you to 425 unless you're talking crankshaft, not rear tire. I'm no good at guessing power outputs, but 370-ish is what I'm thinking.
I do think you'll see better than 18 mpg freeway. I'm getting 18 mixed with a much larger cam and much higher flow heads.
If you're open to cam alternatives, cam motion makes drop in cams that are superior to the hot cam.
I don't think the freshened 243 heads plus GM hot cam will get you to 425 unless you're talking crankshaft, not rear tire. I'm no good at guessing power outputs, but 370-ish is what I'm thinking.
I do think you'll see better than 18 mpg freeway. I'm getting 18 mixed with a much larger cam and much higher flow heads.
If you're open to cam alternatives, cam motion makes drop in cams that are superior to the hot cam.
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Teching In
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Pretty sure the 243's all shipped with 550 lift springs regardless of application.
I don't think the freshened 243 heads plus GM hot cam will get you to 425 unless you're talking crankshaft, not rear tire. I'm no good at guessing power outputs, but 370-ish is what I'm thinking.
I do think you'll see better than 18 mpg freeway. I'm getting 18 mixed with a much larger cam and much higher flow heads.
If you're open to cam alternatives, cam motion makes drop in cams that are superior to the hot cam.
I don't think the freshened 243 heads plus GM hot cam will get you to 425 unless you're talking crankshaft, not rear tire. I'm no good at guessing power outputs, but 370-ish is what I'm thinking.
I do think you'll see better than 18 mpg freeway. I'm getting 18 mixed with a much larger cam and much higher flow heads.
If you're open to cam alternatives, cam motion makes drop in cams that are superior to the hot cam.
Here is the link to the cam motion drop-in cams. If you're going with long tubes, I'd look at the stage 4. Still work with the stock LS6 springs (which you should replace $50 cheap insurance), and make a LOT more power.
http://store.cammotion.com/57-ls1
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Ok, so I have a set of 243s being built now with new yellow springs (not CNCd).
I guess I don't know enough about cams to understand the differences. I just want it to be street friendly and not thump too much.
I guess I don't know enough about cams to understand the differences. I just want it to be street friendly and not thump too much.
The cam motion stage 4 has 2 degrees of overlap, so a bit more than the hot cam, but 9 degrees more intake duration, so it will make a lot more power and rev higher.
If you look at the cam motion stage 3, it is 222/226 on a 114 LSA, which means it has -4 degrees overlap vs -0.5 for the hot cam. In this case, the cam motion cam will make almost identical to slightly more power (intake durations closely match) and thump LESS than the hot cam.
Clear as mud?
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Good deal on the heads. For the cam, what determines streetability and idle thump is overlap - the amount of time both valves are open at the same time. The hot cam has -0.5 degrees of overlap at 0.050" lift. Typically, up to about 3 degrees is very tolerable. Personally, I think 8 degrees is streetable, others will say 16 degrees is streetable.
The cam motion stage 4 has 2 degrees of overlap, so a bit more than the hot cam, but 9 degrees more intake duration, so it will make a lot more power and rev higher.
If you look at the cam motion stage 3, it is 222/226 on a 114 LSA, which means it has -4 degrees overlap vs -0.5 for the hot cam. In this case, the cam motion cam will make almost identical to slightly more power (intake durations closely match) and thump LESS than the hot cam.
Clear as mud?
The cam motion stage 4 has 2 degrees of overlap, so a bit more than the hot cam, but 9 degrees more intake duration, so it will make a lot more power and rev higher.
If you look at the cam motion stage 3, it is 222/226 on a 114 LSA, which means it has -4 degrees overlap vs -0.5 for the hot cam. In this case, the cam motion cam will make almost identical to slightly more power (intake durations closely match) and thump LESS than the hot cam.
Clear as mud?
Now I'm not using a kit but I have read the yellow springs have a .570" max lift. Looking at the stage 3 and 4 cams, they look awfully close. Is it true that the lower the lift the better the MPG? I find that hard to believe, but read it somewhere this past month.
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Yeah, clear as mud.... LOL I have restored half a dozen cars in my life, built 4 motor from scratch and NEVER could wrap my head around cams. I always cheated and used a "kit".
Now I'm not using a kit but I have read the yellow springs have a .570" max lift. Looking at the stage 3 and 4 cams, they look awfully close. Is it true that the lower the lift the better the MPG? I find that hard to believe, but read it somewhere this past month.
Now I'm not using a kit but I have read the yellow springs have a .570" max lift. Looking at the stage 3 and 4 cams, they look awfully close. Is it true that the lower the lift the better the MPG? I find that hard to believe, but read it somewhere this past month.
Overlap is usually where you lose economy, because you get raw fuel going out the rear with too much overlap - but even that can be controlled in the tune. For you, I don't think you'll see much difference in fuel economy between the hot cam, or the S3 or S4 cams from cam motion, or the stock set up.
The weight of your right foot is the biggest factor.
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Teching In
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To be honest, I never see much difference between lower and higher lift on fuel economy. I see it more on duration and overlap. But then, I tend to see higher compression set ups recovering lost fuel economy. These LS1's are so tunable, it's pretty amazing what you can make the car do.
Overlap is usually where you lose economy, because you get raw fuel going out the rear with too much overlap - but even that can be controlled in the tune. For you, I don't think you'll see much difference in fuel economy between the hot cam, or the S3 or S4 cams from cam motion, or the stock set up.
The weight of your right foot is the biggest factor.
Overlap is usually where you lose economy, because you get raw fuel going out the rear with too much overlap - but even that can be controlled in the tune. For you, I don't think you'll see much difference in fuel economy between the hot cam, or the S3 or S4 cams from cam motion, or the stock set up.
The weight of your right foot is the biggest factor.
Last edited by Wes_70ss; Sep 14, 2015 at 09:30 PM.
No concern at all. Max lift is different from coil bind. Good call on the gears and compression, which are both good for more camshaft.
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From what I can find, the GM hot cam is:
219/228@.050" .525/.525 112lsa.
I would invest in a different cam, personally. Unless you are getting the hot cam for uber cheaps.
It, being the hot cam, will absolutely make more power. But I think there are much better options available, even in off the shelf cams.
I think something like the tr224 would do well for your stated goals and intentions.
219/228@.050" .525/.525 112lsa.
I would invest in a different cam, personally. Unless you are getting the hot cam for uber cheaps.
It, being the hot cam, will absolutely make more power. But I think there are much better options available, even in off the shelf cams.
I think something like the tr224 would do well for your stated goals and intentions.
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I would hardly call any cam mentioned in this thread, even the GM hot cam a "crap cam".