Intake Manifold Flow Tests: LS1, LS6, TBSS, BBK, Dorman LS2, 102 Fast LSXRT & more
11-08-2017, 07:42 AM
#301
So the older Dorman LS2's flow better than the new ones? I think I'll wait for 99 Black Bird T/A's answer, because from the test in post 3 the Dorman LS2 didn't stall at .600 lift. I just want to know if another stock nonported Dorman LS2 was flowtested again.
Edit: It does look like another nonported Dorman LS2 intake manifold was tested from what 99 Black Bird T/A posted at the bottom of post 261. Or maybe one side was ported and the other non ported?
From post 261:
With gasket. Ported runner with basic clean up.
I intend to have both the ported and unported runners for this Intake flow tested. Along with the BBK and LS6.
Edit: It does look like another nonported Dorman LS2 intake manifold was tested from what 99 Black Bird T/A posted at the bottom of post 261. Or maybe one side was ported and the other non ported?
From post 261:
With gasket. Ported runner with basic clean up.
I intend to have both the ported and unported runners for this Intake flow tested. Along with the BBK and LS6.
Last edited by Sube; 11-08-2017 at 07:51 AM.
11-08-2017, 10:36 AM
#302
Really, it's splitting hairs, all those intakes will be within a couple HP of each other. The only one to show really higher flow was the Fast truck intake. Interestingly, according to one test I read the Fast 102 and Fast truck only had 1 hp difference between them at peak. The truck intake might make more torque down low due to runner design.
11-08-2017, 12:41 PM
#303
Thank you again for sharing the results! I still hope that the TPiS modded will be tested too, to complete the picture 
I threw all the values in a table and graphed it quick and dirty. The key takeaway for me is:
I threw all the values in a table and graphed it quick and dirty. The key takeaway for me is:
- the LS1 intake is by far the worst, upgrade advised
- the LSXRT steals the show (for big dollars)
- the rest of the crowd is about the same
11-08-2017, 03:43 PM
#304
I will try to answer the questions:
The LS6 head has stock 243 valves, was advertised as 228 cc intake port and 64cc chambers. The actual intake port is about 250 cc. This head the GMPP LPE port work. The testing was done on a calibrated Super Flo 1020 bench at 28 inches of pressure on a 4 inch bore.
I do have a Wegner LS6/799 Nascar head that's proven to make 620 hp with a carb that Chapman Racing helped develop. It has a wing, Del West titanium valves etc but I don't think this head is at all similar to what's typically offered for sale as a CNC'D LS head.
After new we may do a few tests with Wegner or some other heads just for shots and giggles.
For the record, I would want WS6 Store to port my old Dorman LS2 intake before using it. The flow above .550 lift improves. We all run Cams with more than .550 lift in most cases. The flow also sounds "cleaner" on the flow bench with the ported Dorman intake. It's hard to see in the pictures but the ported runner has a very basic clean up. If more work was done there is plenty of possibility for more gain. All of these are good intakes. It's very difficult to squeeze porting gains out of them. WS6 Store's trick Dorman did very well for this stage of the game.
My old Dorman LS2 was tested several months ago and it did appear to flow a very slightly different. I think you see its numbers are with in about 1% overall. There are production line differences to some small degree that might effect the flow numbers. The air temperature was a little different. I can't control that and it might have played a factor. Yesterday was a little cooler. To eliminate this factor, WS6 STORE and I agreed that their Dorman would be ported on only one side. That way we could have the same intake show results ported and unported.
To me the TBSS intake is the real super star of the test. It cost $160 with fuel rails and injectors - but its ugly, I mean Rosie O'Donnell ugly.
Given the issues my 91RS with the the 383 LS1 had with that Fast LSXRT, it is the very last intake in the whole test I would put on an engine under 400 Cubes with a 4th gen fbody PCM.
I plan to send the LS6 intake tested off to LPE or TPIS for the snout. I predict it will flow within 2 cfm of a stock LS6. I don't think the stock snout restrict air flow to one runner on the flow bench. How ever in a running engine with TWO runners pulling air the stock snout is an issue. Might even get some wooden dowels to play with a Radius Rod...
I really want to test a Fast LSX and LSXR....
The LS6 head has stock 243 valves, was advertised as 228 cc intake port and 64cc chambers. The actual intake port is about 250 cc. This head the GMPP LPE port work. The testing was done on a calibrated Super Flo 1020 bench at 28 inches of pressure on a 4 inch bore.
I do have a Wegner LS6/799 Nascar head that's proven to make 620 hp with a carb that Chapman Racing helped develop. It has a wing, Del West titanium valves etc but I don't think this head is at all similar to what's typically offered for sale as a CNC'D LS head.
After new we may do a few tests with Wegner or some other heads just for shots and giggles.
For the record, I would want WS6 Store to port my old Dorman LS2 intake before using it. The flow above .550 lift improves. We all run Cams with more than .550 lift in most cases. The flow also sounds "cleaner" on the flow bench with the ported Dorman intake. It's hard to see in the pictures but the ported runner has a very basic clean up. If more work was done there is plenty of possibility for more gain. All of these are good intakes. It's very difficult to squeeze porting gains out of them. WS6 Store's trick Dorman did very well for this stage of the game.
My old Dorman LS2 was tested several months ago and it did appear to flow a very slightly different. I think you see its numbers are with in about 1% overall. There are production line differences to some small degree that might effect the flow numbers. The air temperature was a little different. I can't control that and it might have played a factor. Yesterday was a little cooler. To eliminate this factor, WS6 STORE and I agreed that their Dorman would be ported on only one side. That way we could have the same intake show results ported and unported.
To me the TBSS intake is the real super star of the test. It cost $160 with fuel rails and injectors - but its ugly, I mean Rosie O'Donnell ugly.
Given the issues my 91RS with the the 383 LS1 had with that Fast LSXRT, it is the very last intake in the whole test I would put on an engine under 400 Cubes with a 4th gen fbody PCM.
I plan to send the LS6 intake tested off to LPE or TPIS for the snout. I predict it will flow within 2 cfm of a stock LS6. I don't think the stock snout restrict air flow to one runner on the flow bench. How ever in a running engine with TWO runners pulling air the stock snout is an issue. Might even get some wooden dowels to play with a Radius Rod...
I really want to test a Fast LSX and LSXR....
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 11-08-2017 at 04:04 PM.
11-08-2017, 04:50 PM
#306
TECH Senior Member
11-08-2017, 06:32 PM
#307
I plan to send the LS6 intake tested off to LPE or TPIS for the snout. I predict it will flow within 2 cfm of a stock LS6. I don't think the stock snout restrict air flow to one runner on the flow bench. How ever in a running engine with TWO runners pulling air the stock snout is an issue. Might even get some wooden dowels to play with a Radius Rod...
Do you think this may also be the case for the Dorman? Considering there is only so much air that will flow through one runner. With the larger intake dia it would be logical to see bigger gains on a dyno or track vs the LS6.
Do you think this may also be the case for the Dorman? Considering there is only so much air that will flow through one runner. With the larger intake dia it would be logical to see bigger gains on a dyno or track vs the LS6.
11-08-2017, 10:58 PM
#308
I've read somewhere that a 85mm TB will flow about 1000CFM and a 90MM TB will flow about 1200 CFM. That's enough flow for somewhere around 500-600 hp. I guess some of the larger strokers with 245 cc heads could gain from a 102 mm TB but there probably isn't a gain on a 500 hp engine.
11-08-2017, 11:02 PM
#309
I've read somewhere that a 85mm TB will flow about 1000CFM and a 90MM TB will flow about 1200 CFM. That's enough flow for somewhere around 500-600 hp. I guess some of the larger strokers with 245 cc heads could gain from a 102 mm TB but there probably isn't a gain on a 500 hp engine.
Put a foot long tube on the front with a few transitions on it like the intake tracts are and see how it performs. Flow data combined with dyno data would be even better and if available drag strip datadata also. The flow data amd dyno data would be better for repeatable controlled settings though.
11-08-2017, 11:04 PM
#310
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Originally Posted by wannafbody
I've read somewhere that a 85mm TB will flow about 1000CFM and a 90MM TB will flow about 1200 CFM. That's enough flow for somewhere around 500-600 hp. I guess some of the larger strokers with 245 cc heads could gain from a 102 mm TB but there probably isn't a gain on a 500 hp engine.
11-09-2017, 04:38 AM
#311
Getting the tpis mod is pointless at this point unless you're only doing it for the sake of science. The reason being because there is already dyno results of the tpis making 15 to 20 more horsepower with this mod on a bolt on engine over the stock ls6. There probably could be more there if it gets radically ported and have the mods to take advantage of it like heads and cam.
I think what is disappointing is that like mentioned already the original test showed data close to the tbss manifold out of the box. Now with this test it shows that you need port work to barely inch above a stock ls6, no where near the flow of the tbss which performed well in both tests. At this point we need a dyno test. We know how the ls6, the lsx, the lsxr, tbss, bbk, and the tpis all perform. The only one in question is the dorman.
Also i have to say that I appreciate ws6 store helping in this test and I have done a lot of my shopping with them but at this point 300 extra for port work should yield better gains and even at that 700 can be spent buying a used fast 90 or 92 set up. The goal in all of this is to find a cheaper alternative to making power equivelant to a fast.
I think what is disappointing is that like mentioned already the original test showed data close to the tbss manifold out of the box. Now with this test it shows that you need port work to barely inch above a stock ls6, no where near the flow of the tbss which performed well in both tests. At this point we need a dyno test. We know how the ls6, the lsx, the lsxr, tbss, bbk, and the tpis all perform. The only one in question is the dorman.
Also i have to say that I appreciate ws6 store helping in this test and I have done a lot of my shopping with them but at this point 300 extra for port work should yield better gains and even at that 700 can be spent buying a used fast 90 or 92 set up. The goal in all of this is to find a cheaper alternative to making power equivelant to a fast.
11-09-2017, 05:13 AM
#312
Getting the tpis mod is pointless at this point unless you're only doing it for the sake of science. The reason being because there is already dyno results of the tpis making 15 to 20 more horsepower with this mod on a bolt on engine over the stock ls6. There probably could be more there if it gets radically ported and have the mods to take advantage of it like heads and cam.
I think what is disappointing is that like mentioned already the original test showed data close to the tbss manifold out of the box. Now with this test it shows that you need port work to barely inch above a stock ls6, no where near the flow of the tbss which performed well in both tests. At this point we need a dyno test. We know how the ls6, the lsx, the lsxr, tbss, bbk, and the tpis all perform. The only one in question is the dorman.
Also i have to say that I appreciate ws6 store helping in this test and I have done a lot of my shopping with them but at this point 300 extra for port work should yield better gains and even at that 700 can be spent buying a used fast 90 or 92 set up. The goal in all of this is to find a cheaper alternative to making power equivelant to a fast.
I think what is disappointing is that like mentioned already the original test showed data close to the tbss manifold out of the box. Now with this test it shows that you need port work to barely inch above a stock ls6, no where near the flow of the tbss which performed well in both tests. At this point we need a dyno test. We know how the ls6, the lsx, the lsxr, tbss, bbk, and the tpis all perform. The only one in question is the dorman.
Also i have to say that I appreciate ws6 store helping in this test and I have done a lot of my shopping with them but at this point 300 extra for port work should yield better gains and even at that 700 can be spent buying a used fast 90 or 92 set up. The goal in all of this is to find a cheaper alternative to making power equivelant to a fast.
My goal in all of this flow testing that I'm paying for and sharing the details of is to find out what these respective intake manifolds flow on the same set of heads in an objective and controlled manner.
A secondary goal to add a little bit of tech data to LS1TECH that might interesting to other folks. I've enjoyed other members sharing their tech information and want to give a little back to the community. Those are my goals with doing the testing.
Only the person making the purchase can decide if it's worth the cost. If we find one that looks promising to out do Fast that's great and if we don't I'm happy learning whatever we learn.
Dyno testing would be great and drag strip for these manifolds but that's not in my budget at this point.
I want to test LSX, ITB, and even a carb LS manifold too
Hawk's Motorsports and have I have kicked around the idea of dyno testing ~ 3 or 4 of these on my 91 white RS. The issue with that is my white RS isn't the typical LS with its small cam 383 LS1. In a year or so my 91 RS Convertible may get 346 LS1 swap and we've kicked around the idea of testing on this car as well. However, this would be another mild set up with something like GT 2-3 cam or 216/220 XE.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 11-09-2017 at 05:29 AM.
11-09-2017, 06:06 AM
#313
You are correct. I apologize for that last sentence. I respect and appreciate the amount of effort, time, and finances you and others have dedicated to this project. So saying that this is "goal", is a poor choice of words. However the majority are hoping for that diamond in the rough to make comparable gains for cheaper. Such is the world of motorsports.
11-09-2017, 07:25 AM
#314
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@Blackbird--
Thanks so much for doing this testing. It's quite useful information, and I know you had other things going on like your regular job and an engine build.
I still go back to my original thought on this - the real metric isn't how much the intake flows, but how much it restricts the flow on the heads. i'd have to go back and pair things up, but for example, if the LS1 intake cuts 25cfm off what the head flows and the fast cuts 10cfm off, that's a YUGE improvement in power potential. I made those numbers up cause i don't feel like going back through the whole thread. A long time ago, PatG posted up that 1-CFM is approx 2.2 HP of potential horsepower - assuming the rest of the combination is able to take care of it.
@Moderator(s) --
If it has not already been done, I personally feel this thread is sticky-worthy and would like to request consideration for the stickies in this section
Thanks so much for doing this testing. It's quite useful information, and I know you had other things going on like your regular job and an engine build.
I still go back to my original thought on this - the real metric isn't how much the intake flows, but how much it restricts the flow on the heads. i'd have to go back and pair things up, but for example, if the LS1 intake cuts 25cfm off what the head flows and the fast cuts 10cfm off, that's a YUGE improvement in power potential. I made those numbers up cause i don't feel like going back through the whole thread. A long time ago, PatG posted up that 1-CFM is approx 2.2 HP of potential horsepower - assuming the rest of the combination is able to take care of it.
@Moderator(s) --
If it has not already been done, I personally feel this thread is sticky-worthy and would like to request consideration for the stickies in this section
11-09-2017, 10:19 AM
#315
TECH Senior Member
11-09-2017, 10:44 AM
#316
Getting the tpis mod is pointless at this point unless you're only doing it for the sake of science. The reason being because there is already dyno results of the tpis making 15 to 20 more horsepower with this mod on a bolt on engine over the stock ls6. There probably could be more there if it gets radically ported and have the mods to take advantage of it like heads and cam.
I think what is disappointing is that like mentioned already the original test showed data close to the tbss manifold out of the box. Now with this test it shows that you need port work to barely inch above a stock ls6, no where near the flow of the tbss which performed well in both tests. At this point we need a dyno test. We know how the ls6, the lsx, the lsxr, tbss, bbk, and the tpis all perform. The only one in question is the dorman.
Also i have to say that I appreciate ws6 store helping in this test and I have done a lot of my shopping with them but at this point 300 extra for port work should yield better gains and even at that 700 can be spent buying a used fast 90 or 92 set up. The goal in all of this is to find a cheaper alternative to making power equivelant to a fast.
I think what is disappointing is that like mentioned already the original test showed data close to the tbss manifold out of the box. Now with this test it shows that you need port work to barely inch above a stock ls6, no where near the flow of the tbss which performed well in both tests. At this point we need a dyno test. We know how the ls6, the lsx, the lsxr, tbss, bbk, and the tpis all perform. The only one in question is the dorman.
Also i have to say that I appreciate ws6 store helping in this test and I have done a lot of my shopping with them but at this point 300 extra for port work should yield better gains and even at that 700 can be spent buying a used fast 90 or 92 set up. The goal in all of this is to find a cheaper alternative to making power equivelant to a fast.
I believe we can also fit a 95 or 96mm tb on it, but ill find that out soon. Not a normal option, but maybe not a bad one. We also fix quite a few issues the intake has like the trough at the pass side pcv port etc. You get alot more than porting for $250 more than our reg price.
11-10-2017, 06:52 PM
#317
Thank you for the kind words.
The LS6 intake is on its way to LPE for the TPIS 90mm snout.
WS6 Store may do additional porting beyond the basic port work on the Dorman LS2
There's probably room for in the next round of testing for two more intakes...
The LS6 intake is on its way to LPE for the TPIS 90mm snout.
WS6 Store may do additional porting beyond the basic port work on the Dorman LS2
There's probably room for in the next round of testing for two more intakes...
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 11-10-2017 at 07:16 PM.
11-10-2017, 07:34 PM
#320
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Originally Posted by 99 Black Bird T/A
That would be fantastic!
Sure we can do some testing with TB's on the intakes.
I have a spare WARR 92mm TB and NW 102 TB that we can use.
Sure we can do some testing with TB's on the intakes.
I have a spare WARR 92mm TB and NW 102 TB that we can use.
