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I'm installing an oil cooler on my 2002 Z28. Looking at the options for routing the lines to and from the cooler, there isn't going to be much room around the headers, so I'm considering routing the lines up and over the driver side shock tower, pretty much where the factory AIR lines go. This would keep the lines almost completely away from the headers, which serves the whole "keep the oil cool" purpose pretty well IMO. Has anyone else done that? One concern I have is being able to drain the oil from those lines during oil changes and not have issues with fluid getting trapped. It's a minor concern, given that the overall volume of trapped oil would be small relative to the total, but I like to be thorough. I was thinking I could insert a T fitting with a cap in each line so that I can crack them open and allow the fluid to drain out completely. There's obviously the additional opportunity for leaks and failures every time you add a fitting; are there other concerns I'm missing?
Thanks! See the thread linked in my sig for additional build details if needed / desired.
Unless the lines are physically touching the exhaust, the tiny amount of heat being transferred to them isn’t gonna make a difference. The longer you make the lines, the more of a pressure drop you’re gonna see. That’s far more concerning than anything.
Routing will depend on the cooler's location. Where are you putting it?
Stock, the truck motors w oil coolers, run the lines along the block, right at the oil pan rail, and they exit to the front down low kinda between the PS pump and the crank damper. Their cooler of course is in the hot tank of the radiator, driver's side.
Unless the lines are physically touching the exhaust, the tiny amount of heat being transferred to them isn’t gonna make a difference. The longer you make the lines, the more of a pressure drop you’re gonna see. That’s far more concerning than anything.
This is the most important thing when considering oil line routing. Keep them as short as possible to keep pressure and flow loss at a minimum. If the lines are close to the exhaust, put some heat sleeving on them. Route the lines in between the headers and block.
If it was me then, I'd follow the truck routing along the block, more or less; and pass the lines through the rad core support.
That little bolt just below the lines over toward the left goes to a bracket attached to the lines; if you use braided stainless lines, you could mount a clamp there.
The longer you make the lines, the more of a pressure drop you’re gonna see. That’s far more concerning than anything.
How much pressure drop are we talking here? I'm using a Katech ported LS6 oil pump (high pressure, standard volume) if that matters. I estimate a total of 6-7 feet of line for the short way, and probably ~12 for the long way. I'm using Aeroquip StartLite -8AN lines.
As said, lines as short as possible. I like to use high volume pumps for bigger coolers such as yours. I’m running an Improved 520 cooler with 7 feet of line total. Ported Melling 296 pump. Using Improved 180 t-stat also. My oil temps will not go over 180, even in July-August. I have to cover half the cooler to get 200 degrees. I like my oil temps 200-220 so I’m going to keep mine half covered. 434 ci with 12.42 compression here. Gibbs LS30 oil exclusively.
I like to use high volume pumps for bigger coolers such as yours.
Why? My understanding is that a HV pump will risk sucking the pan dry unless there are more places you're pumping oil to within the engine, e.g. piston squirters.
I'm installing an oil cooler on my 2002 Z28. Looking at the options for routing the lines to and from the cooler, there isn't going to be much room around the headers, so I'm considering routing the lines up and over the driver side shock tower, pretty much where the factory AIR lines go. This would keep the lines almost completely away from the headers, which serves the whole "keep the oil cool" purpose pretty well IMO. Has anyone else done that? One concern I have is being able to drain the oil from those lines during oil changes and not have issues with fluid getting trapped. It's a minor concern, given that the overall volume of trapped oil would be small relative to the total, but I like to be thorough. I was thinking I could insert a T fitting with a cap in each line so that I can crack them open and allow the fluid to drain out completely. There's obviously the additional opportunity for leaks and failures every time you add a fitting; are there other concerns I'm missing?
Thanks! See the thread linked in my sig for additional build details if needed / desired.
I think you will find you will still have a hard time routing it around the headers with that route when you actually attempt it. I haven't seen anyone do that. Typically you want to run it close along side the block and under or in between the engine mount. Both our thermostatic and non-thermostatic oil cooler adapters (EGM-112 and EGM-106) will give you the most header clearance of any adapter on the market for the majority of header designs.
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I think you will find you will still have a hard time routing it around the headers with that route when you actually attempt it. I haven't seen anyone do that. Typically you want to run it close along side the block and under or in between the engine mount. Both our thermostatic and non-thermostatic oil cooler adapters (EGM-112 and EGM-106) will give you the most header clearance of any adapter on the market for the majority of header designs.
Thanks. I already have an EGM-112 for this purpose.
The engine isn't in the car right now, but when I look at it, going up+rearward from the cooler adapter seems straightforward, and stays much farther away from the header primaries than running alongside the block. I have no actual experience here, so you're probably right.
There isn't enough flow difference to "suck the pan dry". MAJOR urban myth!
An exaggeration, of course -- I really just mean combing G-forces (road course use) and a HV pump leading to the pickup to being exposed to air. I've heard tons of horror stories from people who track their wet-sump LS cars.
I'm using a stock F-body pan on my LS3, but with Improved Racing's baffle and crank scraper. No Accusump or other provisions to guarantee pressure. LS3/L92 heads, which I'm told have better drainback than 241/243 heads. I'm feeling pretty good about not sucking air with this setup, but some people I've talked to tell me it's just a matter of time and I should have gone with a dry sump arrangement.
My budget didn't have room for dry sump. If I blow it up due to oil starvation, I'll use that as an excuse to upgrade to a forged rotating assembly, and do a dry sump at the same time.
Why? My understanding is that a HV pump will risk sucking the pan dry unless there are more places you're pumping oil to within the engine, e.g. piston squirters.
The big -10 lines that feed the cooler along with the capacity of the cooler will add a lot of volume to the system. This is what high volume pumps are designed for. No chance of the HV pump draining your pan. Used to be an issue with SBC’s and HV pumps because the sbc heads have 2 small drain back holes, one on either end of the head. This causes puddling under the valve covers with that design. LS/LT heads have a huge area for oil drain back, basically most of the top of the casting under the valve cover is drain back area. No chance of puddling under the covers, therefore the oil gets back to the pan quickly. The lifter trays are a source for holding oil, but they are small and won’t hold any more oil with a HV pump vs. a std. volume pump.
The road course guys are occasionally going dry from g-forces. Nothing new there. Serious road course guys run at minimum an accusump to help this issue, and most run a true dry sump. HV pumps help get the oil to and through the cooler quicker, therefore reducing bearing temps and crank/rod temps also. The only downside to a HV pump is power loss due to windage and it takes more power to turn the pump, but we’re talking very little power loss that is unnoticeable to anyone but a dyno sheet.
The big -10 lines that feed the cooler along with the capacity of the cooler will add a lot of volume to the system. This is what high volume pumps are designed for.
I'm using -8 lines, FWIW. And I'd like to point out the conflation of "volume" meaning system capacity and "volume" meaning pump flow rate. HV pumps should really be called HF (high flow) pumps.
I feel like I must be missing something. I'm under the impression that HV pumps are "for" engines with more components demanding an oil supply -- piston squirters, AFM/DOD, turbos, etc. I have not added any such things. The way I understand it, adding a cooler increases the length of the path, and the total system capacity, but the flow rate of the oil going into and out of the filter/cooler/t-stat circuit shouldn't change appreciably with the addition of an appropriately plumbed and spec'd cooler. You seem to be saying something different, and I'm not sure what to think.
Originally Posted by Che70velle
No chance of the HV pump draining your pan. Used to be an issue with SBC’s and HV pumps because the sbc heads have 2 small drain back holes, one on either end of the head. This causes puddling under the valve covers with that design. LS/LT heads have a huge area for oil drain back, basically most of the top of the casting under the valve cover is drain back area. No chance of puddling under the covers, therefore the oil gets back to the pan quickly. The lifter trays are a source for holding oil, but they are small and won’t hold any more oil with a HV pump vs. a std. volume pump.
I've heard that gen3 LS heads have not-great drainback from the valve area that contributed to the problem. I'll take your word for it that they're better than SBCs -- no experience there. But I'm told that gen4 heads like the LS3/L92 set I have are better than gen3s in this regard, and so it's not something I need to worry about. You seem to be saying that gen3 and gen4 are roughly equivalent in terms of drainback efficiency? Please educate me.
Originally Posted by Che70velle
The road course guys are occasionally going dry from g-forces. Nothing new there. Serious road course guys run at minimum an accusump to help this issue, and most run a true dry sump.
For the record, I never had any oil pressure issues running my stock LS1 on the road course, but my G-forces were limited by street tires; the most I ever saw was about 1.3G, and that only for a couple seconds at a time. Any sustained Gs would have been in the 0.9-1.1 range. I'm likely to move to a stickier tire in the future, so I expect that to change.
I don't think I qualify as a "serious" road course guy -- I just do an HPDE a couple times each summer. Mostly, the car is street driven, but I definitely want it to be reliable and consistent on the track.
Originally Posted by Che70velle
HV pumps help get the oil to and through the cooler quicker, therefore reducing bearing temps and crank/rod temps also.
Getting the oil to and through the cooler quicker means a lower temperature delta across the cooler, all else being equal. I would think that a lower flow rate through the cooler would be preferable, assuming it's enough to keep the engine fed and pressurized.
Originally Posted by Che70velle
The only downside to a HV pump is power loss due to windage and it takes more power to turn the pump, but we’re talking very little power loss that is unnoticeable to anyone but a dyno sheet.
Why does a HV pump affect windage? Does the fact that I'm using a crank scraper (from Improved Racing) change anything? I'm expecting little to no windage losses thanks to the scraper. I'm not actually concerned about the potential power loss; just wanting to understand.
I'm using -8 lines, FWIW. And I'd like to point out the conflation of "volume" meaning system capacity and "volume" meaning pump flow rate. HV pumps should really be called HF (high flow) pumps.
I feel like I must be missing something. I'm under the impression that HV pumps are "for" engines with more components demanding an oil supply -- piston squirters, AFM/DOD, turbos, etc. I have not added any such things. The way I understand it, adding a cooler increases the length of the path, and the total system capacity, but the flow rate of the oil going into and out of the filter/cooler/t-stat circuit shouldn't change appreciably with the addition of an appropriately plumbed and spec'd cooler. You seem to be saying something different, and I'm not sure what to think.
Your overthinking this. Basically if your going bigger cooler/longer lines than what the OEMs pump was designed for, you’ll need to go with a HV pump. The std volume pump simply isn’t designed to push the extra volume. The harder the pump has to work, the higher oil temps go. HV pumps have wider gears and are designed to handle more flow.
I've heard that gen3 LS heads have not-great drainback from the valve area that contributed to the problem. I'll take your word for it that they're better than SBCs -- no experience there. But I'm told that gen4 heads like the LS3/L92 set I have are better than gen3s in this regard, and so it's not something I need to worry about. You seem to be saying that gen3 and gen4 are roughly equivalent in terms of drainback efficiency? Please educate me.
I honestly can’t say that the gen 4 heads allow for more drainback capacity than a gen 3, but if there is a difference, it’s minimal. I haven’t noticed a difference in this area, from gen 3 to gen 4, but again, that’s something that I haven’t tested, nor seen tested.
For the record, I never had any oil pressure issues running my stock LS1 on the road course, but my G-forces were limited by street tires; the most I ever saw was about 1.3G, and that only for a couple seconds at a time. Any sustained Gs would have been in the 0.9-1.1 range. I'm likely to move to a stickier tire in the future, so I expect that to change.
I don't think I qualify as a "serious" road course guy -- I just do an HPDE a couple times each summer. Mostly, the car is street driven, but I definitely want it to be reliable and consistent on the track.
It’s great to see you using the car on a course, even a couple times a year. Good on you man!
Getting the oil to and through the cooler quicker means a lower temperature delta across the cooler, all else being equal. I would think that a lower flow rate through the cooler would be preferable, assuming it's enough to keep the engine fed and pressurized.
The Improved coolers are designed to control oil temps, even at high flow rates. I’ve tested a lot of oil coolers (and studied the flow data of many others) and Improved coolers are as good or better than anything out there that I’ve found.
Why does a HV pump affect windage? Does the fact that I'm using a crank scraper (from Improved Racing) change anything? I'm expecting little to no windage losses thanks to the scraper. I'm not actually concerned about the potential power loss; just wanting to understand.
The windage increase comes from there being more oil volume moving through the engine. More volume coming out of the bearings squirting around means more windage in the bottom of the engine. Likewise more oil volume squirting out of the pushrods/rockers up top means more windage up top as well.
priority mains here also, im running a standard volume high pressure pump with oil cooler. When warm at idle, 20psi with 5w30
I wouldnt go standard pressure
priority mains here also, im running a standard volume high pressure pump with oil cooler. When warm at idle, 20psi with 5w30
I wouldnt go standard pressure
The difference between high pressure and standard pressure is the spring. The spring allows higher pressure. But at idle it doesn’t come into play because it’s a bypass spring.
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Oil cooler line routing 
