ARP Header Studs -- RIP OFF
ARP Header Studs -- RIP OFF I called ARP direct today in hopes of finding out if spending100 dollars on a Header Stud Kit would have any advantages over buying a regualr grade 8 bolt from a local shop, and why regular bolts were not made like they are for LT1's. The gentlemen I talked to, could not give me one good reason on why I should buy the ARP Header Stud Kit over using a regular 8mm grade 8 bolt. He stated that, "here we only use the best material, and they are hand made....if you want your car to stay together then you will have no problem buying these, or you can go cheap and buy something else."
At this point I felt offended, but I remained calm, and simply stated that if you are so confident in your product are you willing to bet me that my so called cheap bolt will not do as good of a job as your 100 dollar set? Again he went on to say something about my car falling apart.
After talking with this ARP rep, my decision was made easier.
I was battling between forking over the money for this Stud kit, but after talking with him, I have decided not to even waste my time. The bolts I picked up at a local Bolt and Supply store for .59cents a piece, grade 8, will do the job just as good. They are serving the same purpose arn't they!!?!?!
At this point I felt offended, but I remained calm, and simply stated that if you are so confident in your product are you willing to bet me that my so called cheap bolt will not do as good of a job as your 100 dollar set? Again he went on to say something about my car falling apart.
After talking with this ARP rep, my decision was made easier.
I was battling between forking over the money for this Stud kit, but after talking with him, I have decided not to even waste my time. The bolts I picked up at a local Bolt and Supply store for .59cents a piece, grade 8, will do the job just as good. They are serving the same purpose arn't they!!?!?!
the same point can be made for the grade 8 locking bolts. FWIW im going with all ARP fasteners for my new engine, when you've already invested thousands whats another couple hundred in bolts.
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,298
Likes: 0
From: So Cal, CA
Your saying they are a ripoff because a guy on the phone couldnt explain why they were better??? Wow thats some pretty good reasoning you have there...
They could sell them for $1000, if you wanted them and bought them, then thats your choice, doesnt mean they are a rip off....they arent forcing you to purchase them
1) Header studs increase the clamping force quite a bit, just like Head studs over head bolts..
2) The metal in a ARP bolt/stud is nothing like your typical grade 8 usually. Its a VERYVERY high grade metal which is more expensive to produce.
3) Headers studs ease installation in race car situations that parts come off alot, just like a head bolt can wear out the threads on a block from being replaced alot, header bolts can strip out from being removed/installed alot.
4)Some people want the best in every part of thier motor, and APR makes the best. Using factory bolts just doesnt cut it sometimes in a 20k motor.
5) DO YOU have any reasons why you would skimp on bolts and only spend $10 for cheap bolts on a set of $3000 dollar heads and not get studs that would work better especially in a turbo/forced induction application with veryvery high exhaust flow.
These arent useful to 99% of people building ls1's but for the few that need them, im glad they are available.
They could sell them for $1000, if you wanted them and bought them, then thats your choice, doesnt mean they are a rip off....they arent forcing you to purchase them
1) Header studs increase the clamping force quite a bit, just like Head studs over head bolts..
2) The metal in a ARP bolt/stud is nothing like your typical grade 8 usually. Its a VERYVERY high grade metal which is more expensive to produce.
3) Headers studs ease installation in race car situations that parts come off alot, just like a head bolt can wear out the threads on a block from being replaced alot, header bolts can strip out from being removed/installed alot.
4)Some people want the best in every part of thier motor, and APR makes the best. Using factory bolts just doesnt cut it sometimes in a 20k motor.
5) DO YOU have any reasons why you would skimp on bolts and only spend $10 for cheap bolts on a set of $3000 dollar heads and not get studs that would work better especially in a turbo/forced induction application with veryvery high exhaust flow.
These arent useful to 99% of people building ls1's but for the few that need them, im glad they are available.
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
From: Chandler, Arizona
I can see getting ARP fasteners for heads, rods, main caps, places that require you to use all the strength of the fastener, but header bolts that get torqued to 18 foot pounds??? No way! The only advantage is that the studs make it easier to install the headers and are easier on the threaded holes in the heads. If you still torque the nuts on the studs to 18 foot pounds, you will NOT get a higher clamp force. Clamp force is only a function of the thread size and the torque.
Originally Posted by C4VetteLS1
Your saying they are a ripoff because a guy on the phone couldnt explain why they were better??? Wow thats some pretty good reasoning you have there...
They could sell them for $1000, if you wanted them and bought them, then thats your choice, doesnt mean they are a rip off....they arent forcing you to purchase them
1) Header studs increase the clamping force quite a bit, just like Head studs over head bolts..
2) The metal in a ARP bolt/stud is nothing like your typical grade 8 usually. Its a VERYVERY high grade metal which is more expensive to produce.
3) Headers studs ease installation in race car situations that parts come off alot, just like a head bolt can wear out the threads on a block from being replaced alot, header bolts can strip out from being removed/installed alot.
4)Some people want the best in every part of thier motor, and APR makes the best. Using factory bolts just doesnt cut it sometimes in a 20k motor.
5) DO YOU have any reasons why you would skimp on bolts and only spend $10 for cheap bolts on a set of $3000 dollar heads and not get studs that would work better especially in a turbo/forced induction application with veryvery high exhaust flow.
These arent useful to 99% of people building ls1's but for the few that need them, im glad they are available.
They could sell them for $1000, if you wanted them and bought them, then thats your choice, doesnt mean they are a rip off....they arent forcing you to purchase them
1) Header studs increase the clamping force quite a bit, just like Head studs over head bolts..
2) The metal in a ARP bolt/stud is nothing like your typical grade 8 usually. Its a VERYVERY high grade metal which is more expensive to produce.
3) Headers studs ease installation in race car situations that parts come off alot, just like a head bolt can wear out the threads on a block from being replaced alot, header bolts can strip out from being removed/installed alot.
4)Some people want the best in every part of thier motor, and APR makes the best. Using factory bolts just doesnt cut it sometimes in a 20k motor.
5) DO YOU have any reasons why you would skimp on bolts and only spend $10 for cheap bolts on a set of $3000 dollar heads and not get studs that would work better especially in a turbo/forced induction application with veryvery high exhaust flow.
These arent useful to 99% of people building ls1's but for the few that need them, im glad they are available.
Damn Big Shot, maybe they should hire you as a sales rep. We are talking about a header install here, when did I mention anything about heads?? My motor is not a 20k motor, so this does not apply to me at all. Wow, you have some pretty good reasoning there. You can go spend 100 dollars on something I paid half the price for and will do that same exact thing; and that is to told my headers in place. I guess to some people spending more money on pointless things make them feel better about themselves. I will let you know how my .59 cent bolts are doing in a year. I am sure I will have no complaints.
Buy the 59 cent ones, and take your woman out to eat at a nice place with all the money you save. High roller doesn't have to worry about that so he can spend it all on his header studs. 
I'll tell you guys what, when you are sitting there balancing a long tube header with one hand and tring to thread a bolt through a blind hole in the other, that $100 probably won't be sounding so bad. I've installed an incon manifold with turbo and downpipe hanging off by myself in a just a few minutes. Headers are a breeze too (I think you have to pull the back two studs on the pass side for LT's, though).
I guess it all depends on how much your time and frustration is worth. It sure makes things easy.
-Geoff
I guess it all depends on how much your time and frustration is worth. It sure makes things easy.
-Geoff
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
From: Chandler, Arizona
C4VETTELS1 (by the way, an LS1 in a C4 sounds really nice, love to see the installation). The formula I've always used for clamping force is:
Force = Torque / (.20 x diameter). The only way to get more clamping force is to up the torque.
White_Hawk: Why not just get 4 studs and just hang them on the outside threaded holes. No need to buy a complete set. Or you can always just buy a complete set of Grade 8 studs and nuts, still should be a lot cheaper than the ARP bolts.
Force = Torque / (.20 x diameter). The only way to get more clamping force is to up the torque.
White_Hawk: Why not just get 4 studs and just hang them on the outside threaded holes. No need to buy a complete set. Or you can always just buy a complete set of Grade 8 studs and nuts, still should be a lot cheaper than the ARP bolts.
when you cross thread your first bolt you better believe you'll be wishing youve spend the extra $$ to get them
i got them and absolutly love them.
id buy them again.
like i said i cross threaded some of the bolts and now have to use them.
plus instalation is 80% easier.
i got them and absolutly love them.
id buy them again.
like i said i cross threaded some of the bolts and now have to use them.
plus instalation is 80% easier.
They are really worth it. I was highly skeptical when I bought them, but seeing as how I am changing stuff all the time on my car I figured I'd give them a try. They are fantastic -- you just install them in the head, then you can throw your gasket on there and then use BOTH hands to pull your header up into place and you don't have to worry about the damn gasket lining up, etc. Which also saves a lot of time and makes it a very easy one person job.
My only problem with them is that with my new turbo setup I can't use them due to the exhaust manifold design
My only problem with them is that with my new turbo setup I can't use them due to the exhaust manifold design
I guess money can by friends (ARP header studs) for those of you who do not have any. Did not have any problems installing mine and using stock bolts, but I guess thats b/c my buddy was over. Geez, I am sure glad I did not waste 100 dollars. The hardest part was getting the drivers side header up, nothing to do with bolting em down. Plus, you gotta be a real 
to cross thread bolts. I just took my time.
to cross thread bolts. I just took my time. 
SSU Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,857
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
They don't 'only' make em for LS1's. I read on this site not 6 months ago that these parts started for some 4cyl application and they happen to be the same for LS1's, so they sell them for LS1's too.