Noob Header Install Questions
12-30-2005, 03:02 PM
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Noob Header Install Questions Fellow enthusiasts and experts,
I've finally reached the point where the serious modding can begin. I just hit 20k on my motor, so she's broken in beautifully and can now commence the modding. The first thing I ordered is a set of QTP's 1 3/4" w/ HVMC and a ORY. Included w/ my order are Stage 8 locking bolts, 02 extensions and OEM gaskets. I opted for these because of all the positive feedback they received, the fact that they are stainless, and ofcourse, because QTP is giving me one hell of a deal. I am going to be installing these bad boys myself, but with assistance of my mechanic. Although he does not have much experience with LSX engines, he is an oldschool mechanic who has 10w30 for blood. Anyways, to the questions. I've tried to search through the entire External Engine section to find answers, unfortunatly not all were answered. AND THE SEARCH BUTTON DOESNT WORK, SO DONT FLAME ME FOR THAT!!!
So where to start?
These may sound like noob questions, being that I am somewhat of a noob.
#1: Some people suggested that I remove the oil filter to gain the needed clearance to slip in the drivers side header. Is this necessary? If so, how much oil will I lose when doing this? Or will I need to drain it all? Also, how about the steering shaft? This seems to be more common, but is it necessary?
#2: Being that I live about 5 miles from my mechanic, how beneficial will it be that I lube the bolts the night before? By the time I reach my mechanic, the exhaust will be hot. Will this affect the lube procedure? Or should I just park my car at my mechanic over night?
#3: I ordered the race style headers from QTP so no emmisions. Once installed, what do I do with the AIR? I've traced it around my engine and have seen pics on other threads of what needs to be removed, but I saw that ontop of the drivers side head, there is a vacuum line that is part of the AIR system. What do I do with this? Plug it? Reroute if possible?
#4: Upon removal of air, is it cool to drive it for say a couple of days before I can get it tuned? I read somewhere that if you throw more then 3 codes your car goes into SD mode? Is this correct? Reason being is that I am removing my AIR, which I believe throws 2 or 3 codes, and I am removing my cats which I believe will also throw a code. I plan on getting that all tuned and reprogrammed very shortly after install, but it might be a couple of days.
Also, will the PCM reset option clear these codes? or will it just clear it and then reappear?
#5: Will notching the K-member be necessary with QTP's? This is really something I dont want to do, and maybe I havent searched enough on it but I sure hope I dont have to do this with my QTP's. If I do, what is the best way to do it?
#6: Once all installed, should I use bandclamps or should I weld everything? I guess my focus on this questions is where the collecters meet the ORY. Can I tack these in place, or do I need to make a full bead around the joining point? If I tack these, will a leak occur? Do you recommend either band clamps or welding? Or another solution?
#7: If there is anything you see that I forgot, please pm or post it!!
To everyone who reads this post and replies, thank you in advance. Everytime I look at my headers I giggle like a school girl. The install is going to be a pain in the ***, I can already tell due to the size of my hands. I know some knuckle scraping will occur, but when a regular 12 oz can dissappears in your hand, you can already see the problems arise. Try it btw, see how you compare, my thumb and middle finger touch when holding a beer can. At any rate, thank all of you for reading and posting and give me your best advice/tips and give a guestimate on what I will dyno after install. Current hp is in sig. THANKS a million!!!
I've finally reached the point where the serious modding can begin. I just hit 20k on my motor, so she's broken in beautifully and can now commence the modding. The first thing I ordered is a set of QTP's 1 3/4" w/ HVMC and a ORY. Included w/ my order are Stage 8 locking bolts, 02 extensions and OEM gaskets. I opted for these because of all the positive feedback they received, the fact that they are stainless, and ofcourse, because QTP is giving me one hell of a deal. I am going to be installing these bad boys myself, but with assistance of my mechanic. Although he does not have much experience with LSX engines, he is an oldschool mechanic who has 10w30 for blood. Anyways, to the questions. I've tried to search through the entire External Engine section to find answers, unfortunatly not all were answered. AND THE SEARCH BUTTON DOESNT WORK, SO DONT FLAME ME FOR THAT!!!
So where to start?
These may sound like noob questions, being that I am somewhat of a noob.
#1: Some people suggested that I remove the oil filter to gain the needed clearance to slip in the drivers side header. Is this necessary? If so, how much oil will I lose when doing this? Or will I need to drain it all? Also, how about the steering shaft? This seems to be more common, but is it necessary?
#2: Being that I live about 5 miles from my mechanic, how beneficial will it be that I lube the bolts the night before? By the time I reach my mechanic, the exhaust will be hot. Will this affect the lube procedure? Or should I just park my car at my mechanic over night?
#3: I ordered the race style headers from QTP so no emmisions. Once installed, what do I do with the AIR? I've traced it around my engine and have seen pics on other threads of what needs to be removed, but I saw that ontop of the drivers side head, there is a vacuum line that is part of the AIR system. What do I do with this? Plug it? Reroute if possible?
#4: Upon removal of air, is it cool to drive it for say a couple of days before I can get it tuned? I read somewhere that if you throw more then 3 codes your car goes into SD mode? Is this correct? Reason being is that I am removing my AIR, which I believe throws 2 or 3 codes, and I am removing my cats which I believe will also throw a code. I plan on getting that all tuned and reprogrammed very shortly after install, but it might be a couple of days.
Also, will the PCM reset option clear these codes? or will it just clear it and then reappear?
#5: Will notching the K-member be necessary with QTP's? This is really something I dont want to do, and maybe I havent searched enough on it but I sure hope I dont have to do this with my QTP's. If I do, what is the best way to do it?
#6: Once all installed, should I use bandclamps or should I weld everything? I guess my focus on this questions is where the collecters meet the ORY. Can I tack these in place, or do I need to make a full bead around the joining point? If I tack these, will a leak occur? Do you recommend either band clamps or welding? Or another solution?
#7: If there is anything you see that I forgot, please pm or post it!!
To everyone who reads this post and replies, thank you in advance. Everytime I look at my headers I giggle like a school girl. The install is going to be a pain in the ***, I can already tell due to the size of my hands. I know some knuckle scraping will occur, but when a regular 12 oz can dissappears in your hand, you can already see the problems arise. Try it btw, see how you compare, my thumb and middle finger touch when holding a beer can. At any rate, thank all of you for reading and posting and give me your best advice/tips and give a guestimate on what I will dyno after install. Current hp is in sig. THANKS a million!!!
12-30-2005, 03:34 PM
#2
From my install of pacesetters
1) I didn't need to remove anything, I just jacked the car up high enough that they slid in, it'll depend on your particular situation what you have to remove if anything
2) With only 20 k on the motor, the bolts should come out relativly easily, soak them overnight and drive to the garage, the heat will help expand the metal so the penetrant can soak in further, you may want to hit them again before you leave, just be aware it'll smell/smoke
3) AIR take it out, you'll throw some codes, but the only thing it does is provide more air to the cats,
4)You can clear the codes with a PCM reset, but they'll come back, it's ok to go a few days with the SES lit up, just be aware the car may not run as strong until it gets tuned
5) I didn't have to, but if you do a dremel with cutting wheels will work, or a sawzall, or at worse a hacksaw/rotary file
6) I used the band clamps, that way you can adjust the exhaust so it doesn't bang on the floor, then you can weld it if you so desire
Make sure you have extensions for your O2s, you may want to get a set of vette O2s, they seem to eliminate some of the insufficient heat/switching problems, I got a set and, knock wood, no SES lights, a 10mm gear wrench for the coil packs, air tools, and a lift make the job so much easier
As for HP improvements, look for 25-30, maybe more after the tune
Other tips, with hands as big as yours, get plenty of bandaids, and maybe a pint of blood
I've got relativly small hands and I looked like I had a fight with a pissed off cat
Good luck on the install
1) I didn't need to remove anything, I just jacked the car up high enough that they slid in, it'll depend on your particular situation what you have to remove if anything
2) With only 20 k on the motor, the bolts should come out relativly easily, soak them overnight and drive to the garage, the heat will help expand the metal so the penetrant can soak in further, you may want to hit them again before you leave, just be aware it'll smell/smoke
3) AIR take it out, you'll throw some codes, but the only thing it does is provide more air to the cats,
4)You can clear the codes with a PCM reset, but they'll come back, it's ok to go a few days with the SES lit up, just be aware the car may not run as strong until it gets tuned
5) I didn't have to, but if you do a dremel with cutting wheels will work, or a sawzall, or at worse a hacksaw/rotary file
6) I used the band clamps, that way you can adjust the exhaust so it doesn't bang on the floor, then you can weld it if you so desire
Make sure you have extensions for your O2s, you may want to get a set of vette O2s, they seem to eliminate some of the insufficient heat/switching problems, I got a set and, knock wood, no SES lights, a 10mm gear wrench for the coil packs, air tools, and a lift make the job so much easier
As for HP improvements, look for 25-30, maybe more after the tune
Other tips, with hands as big as yours, get plenty of bandaids, and maybe a pint of blood
I've got relativly small hands and I looked like I had a fight with a pissed off catGood luck on the install
12-30-2005, 05:23 PM
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http://www.geocities.com/foff667/98Camaropg4.html
everything u need to know....this is on the pacesetters BUT it goes for all headers
everything u need to know....this is on the pacesetters BUT it goes for all headers
12-30-2005, 07:04 PM
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This is from my experience. Hopefully you find it helpful 
1) With my QTPs, it was unnecessary to remove the plug or the filter. I WOULD recommend getting the car high enough to be able to get the driver' s side completely verticle. In fact, when I was laying, under the car, with my head toward the rear end, I stood the header on the collector, straight up, tilted the collector toward the front of the car, slowly, as I guided between the crossmember and the motor. You will likely have to turn and twist as you go up, but, it should go right in. The secret, I have found, is to get the car high enough, safely. No need to remove the steering shaft. Passenger' s side goes right in. Leave the starter up there
2) I' d leave the car with the mechanic overnight. When I did mine, I waited an hour to cool down. Lubed. Waited another hour, until it was cool enough to touch and lubed again. Later, as I was removing the bolts, I took my time. I used hand tools, and found if I continued to lube, as I unbolted the bolt, it came out easier. It will take longer, but in the four times I have had headers/manifolds off/on, I haven' t broken a bolt Take your time 
3) Sorry, left my AIR...
4) You will likely be able to run around, depending on how much you drive, for a few days. Resetting the PCM will get rid of the codes temperarily, but, you should be able to get by. Since you don' t have cat's, you don' t have to worry about killing them, like I did.
5) I didn' t have to notch my k-member. Wasn' t even really close. Even after they' re up there, there was plenty of clearance.
6) Depending on the fitment of the connections, I would recommend considering using the clamps QTP provides, OR, some of the wide SS clamps you can find at Napa. You see these often on bigrig exhausts. I found if I have a leak, the wider thin ones from Napa will stretch over the deformations real nice,and seal up pretty good. I recommend this because if you weld it up, and you need to drop the tranny, for whatever reason, the exhaust will prevent it from dropping.
7) I suggest fitting the Y-pipe together before getting started. I say this because had I slipped all the joints together completely, before I got under the car for the install, I would have had better leverage, and probably better clearance, and not had to cut my Y-pipe up to get it to hug the floor good. I found I had to have and exhaust shop open the slip joints a little more so I could adjust things better. Perhaps, if you have the Y-pipe together, as you get under the car, it will be easier to mount to the headers and the I-pipe.
Hopefully I was able to articulate okay. It made sense to me ;D but, I hope I didn' t leave you confused. If you take your time, it should go pretty easy. Just don' t get in a hurry and frustrated. The payoff is well worth it.
PS- I am jealous...
1) With my QTPs, it was unnecessary to remove the plug or the filter. I WOULD recommend getting the car high enough to be able to get the driver' s side completely verticle. In fact, when I was laying, under the car, with my head toward the rear end, I stood the header on the collector, straight up, tilted the collector toward the front of the car, slowly, as I guided between the crossmember and the motor. You will likely have to turn and twist as you go up, but, it should go right in. The secret, I have found, is to get the car high enough, safely. No need to remove the steering shaft. Passenger' s side goes right in. Leave the starter up there
2) I' d leave the car with the mechanic overnight. When I did mine, I waited an hour to cool down. Lubed. Waited another hour, until it was cool enough to touch and lubed again. Later, as I was removing the bolts, I took my time. I used hand tools, and found if I continued to lube, as I unbolted the bolt, it came out easier. It will take longer, but in the four times I have had headers/manifolds off/on, I haven' t broken a bolt
Take your time 3) Sorry, left my AIR...
4) You will likely be able to run around, depending on how much you drive, for a few days. Resetting the PCM will get rid of the codes temperarily, but, you should be able to get by. Since you don' t have cat's, you don' t have to worry about killing them, like I did.
5) I didn' t have to notch my k-member. Wasn' t even really close. Even after they' re up there, there was plenty of clearance.
6) Depending on the fitment of the connections, I would recommend considering using the clamps QTP provides, OR, some of the wide SS clamps you can find at Napa. You see these often on bigrig exhausts. I found if I have a leak, the wider thin ones from Napa will stretch over the deformations real nice,and seal up pretty good. I recommend this because if you weld it up, and you need to drop the tranny, for whatever reason, the exhaust will prevent it from dropping.
7) I suggest fitting the Y-pipe together before getting started. I say this because had I slipped all the joints together completely, before I got under the car for the install, I would have had better leverage, and probably better clearance, and not had to cut my Y-pipe up to get it to hug the floor good. I found I had to have and exhaust shop open the slip joints a little more so I could adjust things better. Perhaps, if you have the Y-pipe together, as you get under the car, it will be easier to mount to the headers and the I-pipe.
Hopefully I was able to articulate okay. It made sense to me ;D but, I hope I didn' t leave you confused. If you take your time, it should go pretty easy. Just don' t get in a hurry and frustrated. The payoff is well worth it.
PS- I am jealous...
12-31-2005, 01:43 AM
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2k2ws6ta,
Thanks for your post. Good stuff!
CashMoney,
Excellent point. Hope they make XXXL
Radz282003,
Thanks for your post, it really helps when you have on hand experience with the product. Definetly forgot about #6, I have this feeling my tranny will come out sooner or later.
PS. I am jealous too.....
Thanks for your post. Good stuff!
CashMoney,
Excellent point. Hope they make XXXL
Radz282003,
Thanks for your post, it really helps when you have on hand experience with the product. Definetly forgot about #6, I have this feeling my tranny will come out sooner or later.
PS. I am jealous too.....