Does anyone believe the throttle body coolant bypass mod is worthwhile?
01-27-2006, 04:41 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by FIREHAWK#608
I did the bypass for the de-clutter aspect and since it couldn't hurt.
Why the hell not? Who the hell cares? Why is the earth round? Why do Democrats suck *****?
Why the hell not? Who the hell cares? Why is the earth round? Why do Democrats suck *****?
rofl
01-27-2006, 06:51 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by C5XTASY
I was debating this, but it is hard for me to believe that the air passing through the throttle body picks up much heat due to the high flow and very short period of time it spends going through it. I am thinking of porting my throttle body and that is the only reason I'm wondering if anyone has had positive, documented, results with this mod. Thanks.
Ed
Ed
Understanding WHY coolant is there and HOW it works should help. So unless you log IAT in the manifold with and without the mod and compare I can't see it being worth the hassel. Still that's my take on it, so it isn't law or anything
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
At first glance the theory behind it says yes you should. But in reality and a more indepth look says you probably won't.
The air moves thru the TB very quickly at WOT so will have little chance of being heated. Having said that, the heater in your car works on that very principle by passing cold air past the hot coolant water.
But the difference is the air flow of the heater is very low compared to that of the engine at WOT. And on many cars the heater appears to be less efficent at the high fan speed setting compared to the low, this proves the point that the air needs to be in the hot environment for some time to heat up.
A heated TB has 2 uses that I can see (probably only one being genuine).
1. To prevent freezing of the TB blade - this is very unlikely even in extreme cold. This is probably some what of a folk law mith, created by people who wheren't sure what the coolant fluid was doing going through the TB.
2. Much more likely is it exists for fuel economy purposes.
We all know cold air is good for power, but hot or warm air is good for fuel efficency.
At light throttle, the intake air will move much slower through the TB, thus allowing it to be heated slightly, this then promoted better cruise economy.
At WOT (wide Open Throttle) the air will move to fast through the TB to really be affected, thus having minimal affect on WOT performance.
The only thing it may help is if the motors being running for a long time then the TB will become heat soaked, however if the TB is mounted to a metal intake manifold (as I think it is on a 302ci) this will hardly matter.
The only way to really tell is to fit an air intake temperture sensor inside the intake manifold and see whether the intake air tempertures reduce with the TB by-pass. If it does then a small gain may be seen. If it doesn't affect the IAT then it will make ZERO more bhp.
If you're bored or really want to do it - I say go for it. Just don't expect to feel the difference.
Else it's not worth it. The only reason I'll alter it on my Z28 is if I fit an after market TB which doesn't cater for it.
The air moves thru the TB very quickly at WOT so will have little chance of being heated. Having said that, the heater in your car works on that very principle by passing cold air past the hot coolant water.
But the difference is the air flow of the heater is very low compared to that of the engine at WOT. And on many cars the heater appears to be less efficent at the high fan speed setting compared to the low, this proves the point that the air needs to be in the hot environment for some time to heat up.
A heated TB has 2 uses that I can see (probably only one being genuine).
1. To prevent freezing of the TB blade - this is very unlikely even in extreme cold. This is probably some what of a folk law mith, created by people who wheren't sure what the coolant fluid was doing going through the TB.
2. Much more likely is it exists for fuel economy purposes.
We all know cold air is good for power, but hot or warm air is good for fuel efficency.
At light throttle, the intake air will move much slower through the TB, thus allowing it to be heated slightly, this then promoted better cruise economy.
At WOT (wide Open Throttle) the air will move to fast through the TB to really be affected, thus having minimal affect on WOT performance.
The only thing it may help is if the motors being running for a long time then the TB will become heat soaked, however if the TB is mounted to a metal intake manifold (as I think it is on a 302ci) this will hardly matter.
The only way to really tell is to fit an air intake temperture sensor inside the intake manifold and see whether the intake air tempertures reduce with the TB by-pass. If it does then a small gain may be seen. If it doesn't affect the IAT then it will make ZERO more bhp.
If you're bored or really want to do it - I say go for it. Just don't expect to feel the difference.
Else it's not worth it. The only reason I'll alter it on my Z28 is if I fit an after market TB which doesn't cater for it.
01-27-2006, 07:25 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by NO-OPTION-2002
Very interesting, Mr. Madbill.
Why do non-egr cars have throttle body coolant passages?
Why do non-egr cars have throttle body coolant passages?
A. Water vapour from PCV system?
B. Exhaust vapours wafting back through a cylinder on overlap?
C. Playing it safe, JIC?
D. Parts commonization?
E. Force of habit? (When the emissions calibration guys deleted the EGR, no one told the TB Release Engineer.)
F. Rookie Release Engineer didn't know what it was for, so he just left it? (Scary how often this one happens!)
01-28-2006, 12:19 AM
#25
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Everyone on this thread is completely missing the point. The throttle body bypass mod is ONLY effective if you use the TORNADO.
I personally like to run two Tornadoes inline in front of the throttle body. THEN you will see some gains from the throttle body bypass!!
I personally like to run two Tornadoes inline in front of the throttle body. THEN you will see some gains from the throttle body bypass!!
02-02-2006, 04:42 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by 02SSLE
here is dyno befor and after. http://www.bmrfabrication.com/tb-dyno.htm
Of course they are going to show it in a positive light. Any rolling road dyno is not accurate enough to measure such a varaitaion due to all the other components that exist between the engine and the rollers of the dyno. Even adjusting the pressure of your tyres can affect results.
02-02-2006, 04:07 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by BitViper
Sort of Off topic but.....Rather than by-passing the TB has anyone ever built a cooler for the fluid..ie a small radiator that the fluid could really get cooled off b4 running thru the TB?
do you know where and what the coolant is???
The coolant already passes thru a radiator, sorry the 'radiator'. But it's still hot and you don't want it cold.
02-03-2006, 03:54 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by 02SSLE
Well just read what all they did to make comparision the same.
Unless I read it wrong they dyno'd more rwhp with a hotter engine and hotter intake air temps. This goes to show that a rolling road dyno is not accurate enough to make this comparison and doesn't represent real world driving conditions.
This of course is only IMO
02-03-2006, 09:43 AM
#33
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Just an observation. Before doing this I could not touch the top of the metal on the TB. After doing it it is cool to the touch. Every bit of heat reduction has a cumulative effect.
02-03-2006, 09:54 AM
#34
What are you guys using for the bypass, I have to do it when I switch to the Fast 90 setup? Can you get the parts in the plumbing section for a few bucks? I hate to pay 17 bucks + shipping for the BMR kit when it should only take 3 bucks worth of connectors from home depot to do it.
02-03-2006, 10:55 AM
#36
Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton
eh
do you know where and what the coolant is???
The coolant already passes thru a radiator, sorry the 'radiator'. But it's still hot and you don't want it cold.
do you know where and what the coolant is???
The coolant already passes thru a radiator, sorry the 'radiator'. But it's still hot and you don't want it cold.
hey Im just thinking outside the box....maybe Im too far outside the box....around the corner and under a bus....
Just an Idea
02-03-2006, 12:20 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by BitViper
Yep I sure do... but as a stock set up..its returning TO the radiator THRU the TB..Im suggesting what if you ran it THRU a cooler first thereby "Cooling" the fluid even more before letting it pass thru the TB...then it becomes a Heat pump pulling the heat out of the air.....and cooling the TB itself..
hey Im just thinking outside the box....maybe Im too far outside the box....around the corner and under a bus....
Just an Idea
hey Im just thinking outside the box....maybe Im too far outside the box....around the corner and under a bus....
Just an Idea
02-03-2006, 02:20 PM
#38
Originally Posted by BitViper
Yep I sure do... but as a stock set up..its returning TO the radiator THRU the TB..Im suggesting what if you ran it THRU a cooler first thereby "Cooling" the fluid even more before letting it pass thru the TB...then it becomes a Heat pump pulling the heat out of the air.....and cooling the TB itself..
hey Im just thinking outside the box....maybe Im too far outside the box....around the corner and under a bus....
Just an Idea
hey Im just thinking outside the box....maybe Im too far outside the box....around the corner and under a bus....
Just an Idea
The coolant isnt going to get any cooler than the outside air, so that would be a complete waste of time.
02-03-2006, 02:32 PM
#39
Originally Posted by BitViper
Yep I sure do... but as a stock set up..its returning TO the radiator THRU the TB..Im suggesting what if you ran it THRU a cooler first thereby "Cooling" the fluid even more before letting it pass thru the TB...then it becomes a Heat pump pulling the heat out of the air.....and cooling the TB itself..
hey Im just thinking outside the box....maybe Im too far outside the box....around the corner and under a bus....
Just an Idea
hey Im just thinking outside the box....maybe Im too far outside the box....around the corner and under a bus....
Just an Idea
