How to remove your PCV.
03-08-2009, 05:02 PM
#81
04-18-2009, 11:33 AM
#82
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This will prevent oil in the intake 100%, but you WILL hurt your motor over time, guaranteed. What the thread starter is doing is 2 fold, eliminating any way for oil to get into the intake....which is good, and relieving excess crankcase pressure, which is also good. What he is missing is equaly as important. While your engine runs, the crankcase gets contaminated with moisture, unburnt fuel, and combustion by-products one of which is sulferic acid.
04-25-2009, 07:02 PM
#83
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Im trying to decide what to do for my car. Its a 70,000 mi engine, mostly stock. Last fall I ported and polished the tb and maf, and really found out much gunk is inside the intake.
I came across a pcv thread on ls1.com and later found a link to this thread. I was planning on just removing the pcv system and installing breather filters like the op described. But after reading this thread it sounds like the best of both worlds is to plumb the pcv with a catch can.
So now I have two questions. First, is it worth spending the money on a $100+ pretty little can or buy a cheap air/oil separator and plumb it away from the engine heat?
Second, do I still buy a breather filter for the pass side valve cover? If I understand the theory right, having a filter is just another entry for fresh air during idle and low power. The car is also sprayed so at high rpm/power the filter will vent excess pressure that the pcv cant keep up with. Right? Or wrong? And having the filter on with a working pcv will I still smell the vapors with a hot engine and/or cause some kind of damage over time?
Thanks
I came across a pcv thread on ls1.com and later found a link to this thread. I was planning on just removing the pcv system and installing breather filters like the op described. But after reading this thread it sounds like the best of both worlds is to plumb the pcv with a catch can.
So now I have two questions. First, is it worth spending the money on a $100+ pretty little can or buy a cheap air/oil separator and plumb it away from the engine heat?
Second, do I still buy a breather filter for the pass side valve cover? If I understand the theory right, having a filter is just another entry for fresh air during idle and low power. The car is also sprayed so at high rpm/power the filter will vent excess pressure that the pcv cant keep up with. Right? Or wrong? And having the filter on with a working pcv will I still smell the vapors with a hot engine and/or cause some kind of damage over time?
Thanks
04-25-2009, 08:46 PM
#84
Im trying to decide what to do for my car. Its a 70,000 mi engine, mostly stock. Last fall I ported and polished the tb and maf, and really found out much gunk is inside the intake.
I came across a pcv thread on ls1.com and later found a link to this thread. I was planning on just removing the pcv system and installing breather filters like the op described. But after reading this thread it sounds like the best of both worlds is to plumb the pcv with a catch can.
So now I have two questions. First, is it worth spending the money on a $100+ pretty little can or buy a cheap air/oil separator and plumb it away from the engine heat?
Second, do I still buy a breather filter for the pass side valve cover? If I understand the theory right, having a filter is just another entry for fresh air during idle and low power. The car is also sprayed so at high rpm/power the filter will vent excess pressure that the pcv cant keep up with. Right? Or wrong? And having the filter on with a working pcv will I still smell the vapors with a hot engine and/or cause some kind of damage over time?
Thanks
I came across a pcv thread on ls1.com and later found a link to this thread. I was planning on just removing the pcv system and installing breather filters like the op described. But after reading this thread it sounds like the best of both worlds is to plumb the pcv with a catch can.
So now I have two questions. First, is it worth spending the money on a $100+ pretty little can or buy a cheap air/oil separator and plumb it away from the engine heat?
Second, do I still buy a breather filter for the pass side valve cover? If I understand the theory right, having a filter is just another entry for fresh air during idle and low power. The car is also sprayed so at high rpm/power the filter will vent excess pressure that the pcv cant keep up with. Right? Or wrong? And having the filter on with a working pcv will I still smell the vapors with a hot engine and/or cause some kind of damage over time?
Thanks
Do you have a stock LS1?
04-25-2009, 10:02 PM
#85
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Just a thought, but why not do an Ls1 PCV to Ls6 PCV conversion?. The LS1 system just happens to force oil along with the air as well, so GM seemed to take a stab at fixing the issue with the LS6 system. The LS6 setup pulls the pressure not from the valve cover, but from the VALLEY cover. This is the cover that resides under the intake manifold, and sits between the 2 cylinder heads. I've heard this seems to work fine, i haven't done it yet, but soon. Here's a link that explains step by step in how to do this setup. ( provided by the great LS1HOWTO guys)......http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=18
04-25-2009, 11:13 PM
#86
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I know about the ls6 valley, its too much work now for just a catch can install. Ill convert it someday whenever I can afford to do a head/cam swap.
I kinda answered my own questions already. Just deciding on spending 100 bucks for a can and simple install or $20 for a cheap separator and spend time to fab up a mounting location and run the hoses.
Im thinking with a pcv and catch can that installing the valve cover filter isnt going to hurt anything. The pcv should scavenge the stinky gases on its own during normal driving.
I kinda answered my own questions already. Just deciding on spending 100 bucks for a can and simple install or $20 for a cheap separator and spend time to fab up a mounting location and run the hoses.
Im thinking with a pcv and catch can that installing the valve cover filter isnt going to hurt anything. The pcv should scavenge the stinky gases on its own during normal driving.
05-19-2009, 10:33 PM
#87
I just set up my new PCV system with the Vette doctors help.
OK i just install a new forged LS6 blower motor in my 01 SS.
off of each stock valve cover i have a 3/8 line running to a vented catch can that has two 3/8 barbed inputs, and a nice breather on top and built in baffel too. This is my freash air and breather in case any boost build up makes it into the crank case.
OK i have a LS6 Valley cover on my new motor , the LS6 valley cover PCV port goes to a ANW LS1 non vented catch can via a 3/8 line, the other port on the ANW can goes to the PCV inlet on the stock LS6 intake, with a GN PCV check valve inline, so that under boost the check valve prevents boost from entering the vally cover and crank case.
Realy nice set up , simple and clean,
O yeah and No more line down to the procharger intake hat, NO MORE OIL will be getting sucked down there,
no mor dirty - oily air filter, intake pipes, BOV's etc.
OK i just install a new forged LS6 blower motor in my 01 SS.
off of each stock valve cover i have a 3/8 line running to a vented catch can that has two 3/8 barbed inputs, and a nice breather on top and built in baffel too. This is my freash air and breather in case any boost build up makes it into the crank case.
OK i have a LS6 Valley cover on my new motor , the LS6 valley cover PCV port goes to a ANW LS1 non vented catch can via a 3/8 line, the other port on the ANW can goes to the PCV inlet on the stock LS6 intake, with a GN PCV check valve inline, so that under boost the check valve prevents boost from entering the vally cover and crank case.
Realy nice set up , simple and clean,
O yeah and No more line down to the procharger intake hat, NO MORE OIL will be getting sucked down there,
no mor dirty - oily air filter, intake pipes, BOV's etc.
02-02-2010, 12:19 AM
#90
I Tested my NEW PCV duel Catch/Breather canset up, Results inside Tested My set up today, using a vacume/boost gauge on my PCV system.
OK i just got around to doing this , i know its been a while.
I modified a factory/stock oil cap with a T fitting so i could hook up a vacume line to it, and run it into my car under the hood through my driver window. I drilled a hole in the top through the oil cap, with a rubber washer i pressed the valve fitting super tight into the oil cap, check for leaks and it came out good. Screwed the oil cap on the filler neck, took the car for a drive.
Ok this is what i came up with
at 5 PSI , no PCV reading on the hand held gauge, my old set up about 1 psi.
at 7-8 PSI still zero reading, old set up 2 psi
at 10-11 PSI Big ZERO old set up 2.5-3 PSI at 9 psi
So it works and it works Perfect, if it didnt vent the PCV into the breather can i would be getting some PCV boost reading on the gauge, and that means my crancase is getting pressurized.
Now if i was to diconect each of my 3/8" rubber lines, one that comes off of each valve cover to the two 3/8 inputs on my breather can and cap them off , i would defently see PCV pressure/boost on that gauge.
I hope this helps everyone, LSX PCV systems can be a little tricky, especialy when it comes to FI set ups, and that thin line between Street and Race.
If anyone needs help/advice, Pictures of my set up or pictures of the test i did
PM me
Glade to help u out
OK i just got around to doing this , i know its been a while.
I modified a factory/stock oil cap with a T fitting so i could hook up a vacume line to it, and run it into my car under the hood through my driver window. I drilled a hole in the top through the oil cap, with a rubber washer i pressed the valve fitting super tight into the oil cap, check for leaks and it came out good. Screwed the oil cap on the filler neck, took the car for a drive.
Ok this is what i came up with
at 5 PSI , no PCV reading on the hand held gauge, my old set up about 1 psi.
at 7-8 PSI still zero reading, old set up 2 psi
at 10-11 PSI Big ZERO old set up 2.5-3 PSI at 9 psi
So it works and it works Perfect, if it didnt vent the PCV into the breather can i would be getting some PCV boost reading on the gauge, and that means my crancase is getting pressurized.
Now if i was to diconect each of my 3/8" rubber lines, one that comes off of each valve cover to the two 3/8 inputs on my breather can and cap them off , i would defently see PCV pressure/boost on that gauge.
I hope this helps everyone, LSX PCV systems can be a little tricky, especialy when it comes to FI set ups, and that thin line between Street and Race.
If anyone needs help/advice, Pictures of my set up or pictures of the test i did
PM me
Glade to help u out
02-02-2010, 01:02 AM
#91
An old trick I've heard some old timers tell me was to put a vacuum pump on the crankcase to create a vacuum on the crankcase instead of just venting it. He verified the gain on his engine dyno of a BBC. They had a mechanical pump on the engine and the motor picked up HP on the dyno from it. Then lost power and they couldnt figure out why so they pulled the valve covers and it had sucked a valve cover gasket into the head from all the vacuum... they fixed the gasket and dyno'd again and numbers went right back up. It's been too long to remember the gains but that sparked an idea for me...
I've not done this yet but will be trying when my motor goes in. My idea is to use the AIR pump that everyone deletes to pull vacuum on the crankcase. I know that it will suck oil vapur out just like the stock PCV system so I will incorporate my own custom catch can with big 3/4" barb fittings to help catch the oil vapur. Now I don't know how this will work but it is def worth a try since they are readily available and are pre-wired for it haha.
Hopefully it works.
I've not done this yet but will be trying when my motor goes in. My idea is to use the AIR pump that everyone deletes to pull vacuum on the crankcase. I know that it will suck oil vapur out just like the stock PCV system so I will incorporate my own custom catch can with big 3/4" barb fittings to help catch the oil vapur. Now I don't know how this will work but it is def worth a try since they are readily available and are pre-wired for it haha.
Hopefully it works.
02-02-2010, 06:46 AM
#92
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Wow, old thread revived. Ive done much more research since my last post. I dont have any documentation to prove it, but if you open the stock pcv system (like with a breather filter) the pcm detects a vacuum leak and can add up to 25% more fuel at WOT.
Heres a post I made a while back, it was regarding a certain persons set up on a different site.
Heres a post I made a while back, it was regarding a certain persons set up on a different site.
First, you have to understand what is happening with the pcv system in general. Then what is happening in a LS1. You only want the pcv during low power or cruising around, above that air just needs to escape. There is some air flow, not much. And yes that is because of the cheap little tin valve thingy. Where this whole subject gets complicated is under high loads (wot). Remember, you have 2 lines. One, the "clean air" line is on the TB. The other is the "dirty air" going to the intake.
Here is a quick table
CRUISE POWER
-high vacuum on the dirty line, pulling air through the pcv valve.
-clean air is flowing through the clean line, replenishing the crankcase.
-The crankcase has constant air flow. Normal "Positive Crankcase Ventilation" operation.
WOT
-Most amount of blow by is occuring, pressurizing the crankcase
-little or no vacuum on dirty line from the intake. Pressure from the crankcase is flowing through the valve.
-Since little air can go through the valve, the extra pressurized "dirty" is also blowing through the 'clean air' line to the TB. This is where oil mist is blown all over the throttle blade, gumming it up.
-High HP engines also blow out the oil dipstick if the the two pcv lines cannot let all the blow by out
HIGH RPM, THROTTLE CLOSED (ENGINE BRAKING)
-highest vacuum in the intake, pulls the hardest on the pcv. Any oil mist blown into the line during WOT is sucked in.
-clean air line is now flowing clean air back into the crankcase, normal air flow direction.
-ls1's may have blue exhaust from burning the oil mist that was blown into the intake from WOT
Now, you said your engine was stock. Stock HP is fine for the stock pcv, connect everything back up to the way it was. If you are concerned about oil in the intake then add a catch can in the 'dirty' line. Nevermind the clean air line. Just clean the TB with some carb cleaner every oil change. Also, dont use a breather filter. Its going to simulate a vacuum leak to the pcm and it will run rich. Also, oil drips out of it and smokes on the header. If you start modding then yes. But tune for it. When you get to that point, research some more.
What I've done: Ran a 3/8" hose from the pcv valve to the radiator cooling fan shroud. Attached a compressor line filter with a bendable bracket. Ran hose back up to the intake. Cost: <$40. At the track, I cap off the intake and TB lines and screw on the valve cover breather. The pcv is now deleted but just for the track. Reconnect for the drive home.
Here is a quick table
CRUISE POWER
-high vacuum on the dirty line, pulling air through the pcv valve.
-clean air is flowing through the clean line, replenishing the crankcase.
-The crankcase has constant air flow. Normal "Positive Crankcase Ventilation" operation.
WOT
-Most amount of blow by is occuring, pressurizing the crankcase
-little or no vacuum on dirty line from the intake. Pressure from the crankcase is flowing through the valve.
-Since little air can go through the valve, the extra pressurized "dirty" is also blowing through the 'clean air' line to the TB. This is where oil mist is blown all over the throttle blade, gumming it up.
-High HP engines also blow out the oil dipstick if the the two pcv lines cannot let all the blow by out
HIGH RPM, THROTTLE CLOSED (ENGINE BRAKING)
-highest vacuum in the intake, pulls the hardest on the pcv. Any oil mist blown into the line during WOT is sucked in.
-clean air line is now flowing clean air back into the crankcase, normal air flow direction.
-ls1's may have blue exhaust from burning the oil mist that was blown into the intake from WOT
Now, you said your engine was stock. Stock HP is fine for the stock pcv, connect everything back up to the way it was. If you are concerned about oil in the intake then add a catch can in the 'dirty' line. Nevermind the clean air line. Just clean the TB with some carb cleaner every oil change. Also, dont use a breather filter. Its going to simulate a vacuum leak to the pcm and it will run rich. Also, oil drips out of it and smokes on the header. If you start modding then yes. But tune for it. When you get to that point, research some more.
What I've done: Ran a 3/8" hose from the pcv valve to the radiator cooling fan shroud. Attached a compressor line filter with a bendable bracket. Ran hose back up to the intake. Cost: <$40. At the track, I cap off the intake and TB lines and screw on the valve cover breather. The pcv is now deleted but just for the track. Reconnect for the drive home.
02-03-2010, 03:43 AM
#93
Yes the PCM will detect a vacuum leak if you haven't plugged off all the ports in the airstream, mainly being the fresh air port on the throttle body that goes to the passenger valve cover next to the oil cap and the vacuum port on the side of the intake manifold that pulls vacuum to the crankcase.
If you block all this off there is no way for the PCM to detect it. Think about it this way... the MAF sensor is the only sensor that measures airflow (MAP sensor does not, it calculates airflow based on a VE Table and vacuum) and the fresh air port off the throttle body is after the MAF in the intake duct so all the air entering the PCV system is measured as long as it's sealed up. Now if you add a breather filter to your oil cap the PCV is now going to suck air through the crank case from the filter and the fresh air port on the throttle body. Guess what? The air that is drawn in from the breather cap is not measured and thus creates a lean condition from unmetered air. Basically if the PCM doesn't know it's getting that air it's not going to add the fuel for that air. Then your oxygen sensors see this and your fuel trim's start adding fuel.
So basically your cool to delete the entire PCV system and vent it to atmousphere IF you properly block off all of the ports on the throttle body and the intake manifold.
If you block all this off there is no way for the PCM to detect it. Think about it this way... the MAF sensor is the only sensor that measures airflow (MAP sensor does not, it calculates airflow based on a VE Table and vacuum) and the fresh air port off the throttle body is after the MAF in the intake duct so all the air entering the PCV system is measured as long as it's sealed up. Now if you add a breather filter to your oil cap the PCV is now going to suck air through the crank case from the filter and the fresh air port on the throttle body. Guess what? The air that is drawn in from the breather cap is not measured and thus creates a lean condition from unmetered air. Basically if the PCM doesn't know it's getting that air it's not going to add the fuel for that air. Then your oxygen sensors see this and your fuel trim's start adding fuel.
So basically your cool to delete the entire PCV system and vent it to atmousphere IF you properly block off all of the ports on the throttle body and the intake manifold.
02-03-2010, 06:38 AM
#94
I read the first two pages of this thread and it is painful....some of you guys need to go through this thread...
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,3050.0.html
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,3050.0.html
02-04-2010, 01:01 PM
#97
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If youre runnin a 408 Id assume you have an ORY. Exhaust stink is much worse than the little smell that comes out of the crankcase. I say, tune for the breather filter. Cap the fresh air line and run valve cover breather. Id guess that a hi-comp engine is going to have way more blow by and probably already is trying to blow out the dipstick. If its mostly a track car, just delete it entirely.
02-04-2010, 01:10 PM
#98
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If youre runnin a 408 Id assume you have an ORY. Exhaust stink is much worse than the little smell that comes out of the crankcase. I say, tune for the breather filter. Cap the fresh air line and run valve cover breather. Id guess that a hi-comp engine is going to have way more blow by and probably already is trying to blow out the dipstick. If its mostly a track car, just delete it entirely.
ORY?? I have a true dual set-up. Any pics on this set-up. Sorry, still learning on the LS motors. I have a 97' Camaro, took out the LT-1 and put this in. Not finished yet. Not going to be a track car. Street car. But not daily driven (get my drift). Thanks for the help.
John
02-04-2010, 07:39 PM
#100
408 with high compression, no reason to block off your PCV system, you can can a breather or breather can with your intake port hooked up, i would still use a PCV valve and a inline non vented catch can