</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I was talking about the bigger STEPPED Dynas...The car picked up 5RWHP from 5400 to 6500 </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nothing wrong with gains in this RPM range! Should be a nice improvement at the track, especially on a six speed car.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I agree with u guys that a 1 3/4 LT is better than a midlength but not as much as think on a 346 and a 3in Collector is too big...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, this could possibly be the case for a basically stock motor but couldn't be further from the truth for a fully modified H/C car!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I should say this is JUST AN OBSERVATION so u guys dont get mad,But it has been FACTUALLY tested.This is not hearsay.....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What would your explanation be for my headers which are stepped with 3.5" merge collectors and 3.5" duals making 391RWHP with a 3.73 8.5" (which is virtually the same as a 12 bolt) with stock heads be? Surely you're not suggesting that I'll pick up power by downsizing my exhaust size 50% <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Now granted, my exhaust is a bit big for stock heads because it is designed for S2 heads so I'll post those numbers shortly when I get the heads slapped on.

My whole point here JS is that exhaust technology is not unique for an LS1, it is pretty much universal for any motor. If you have big HP numbers, you need a free flowing exhaust and 2.5" diameter collectors and big HP numbers aren't in the same equation. Does this mean you can't make big power with 2.5", I didn't say that.....if you are, my point is that you'll get more with a larger set-up, that's all.

I thought that my stock system w/2-1/4" true duals was a decent exhaust system until I got the results with my new exhaust system....over 60HP gained!

Once again I think you are mixing facts here.....and I'm not made either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

Look,I dont care if u believe me or not,I tested this on a dyno on my car back to back.

We were shocked to find the larger stepped header,bigger Y and collector lost power from 3500 to 5400.

It did get better above 5500 and I agree,for a stick this would be fine.But I run an AUTO and I truely believe this is hurting my ET.The power under the curve that I'm giving up,about 13
flywheel hp and 12 flywheel tq from 3500 to 5400 is hurting my 1/8 mile ET which is where most of the ET is gained anyway.

I would love to try a regular 1 3/4in Dyna just to see if its the headers tubes that are too big.I might try a 2.75in Y pipe first and see if this gets me back my lost hp/tq from 3500 to 5000.If it does then I'll leave well enough alone,if not then I'm going back to MACS.

Macs have made 500RWHP on a stroker motormthey are not as bad as u think.If u port them and run a quality Y with a 3in merge I know they hang with any header on the market.

This is something thats been proven.Talk to some racers on here like Chris Pippy,Judson M.,Patrick G. ans ask them what they've seen on the dyno.

I will say that IMO 1 3/4 Grotts look to be the best Header for the S2 346 LS1....

JS

<small>[ August 22, 2002, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>

 

I think this info is pretty inconsistant! Lost HP, gained HP > you don't just gain or lose HP with headers. Other MODS will determine where you gain or possibly lose HP. Is the car supercharged? Ask this person, ask that person > what have they done to their cars? There is no BEST header on the market! There is a "whats best for you header" on the market > and thats "whats best for you!" Pretty welds don't add HP. If one of you guys has a summit catalog > look up the add for edelbrock headers > there add states "lose 1 sec off 0-60 time" thats a bunch of sh*t. But thats what they say..... I'm not trying to say that you guys don't know what your talking about > there are more opions out there than facts. <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />

 

Let's not focus on high rpm gains being beneficial only to M6's. Lots of A4's have stalls that actually keep their shift drops above the M6ers. It's for that reason I recently switched to a 3" custom y-pipe merging to a 4" back. Not track tested yet, but it shouldn't be too long....

 

JS: I believe your dyno results but you are forgetting one thing. MACS ARE NOT THE SAME AS DYNATECHS. Let me reiterate: when you are making a comparison, wether on the dyno or at the track, you have to change only *ONE* variable to get an accurate result. Changing your header manufacturer, primary tube size, primary tube length, collector properties (internal cone or not, how long the collector is etc) and changing your Y pipe and everything back is more than one variable. Your results are far from conclusive regarding the 3" collector.

You want to prove your point? Here is how to do it. Take your new set of MACs and dyno them with the 2.5" Y. Now make a 3" mandrel bent Y using the same style merge etc, so that the only change is going to a full 3.0" collector. Now redyno and tell us what you find but until then, your personal results are inconclusive.

 

2000 silver bullet are u a MORON?
Read my post,The STEPPED DYNAS w/3in Y made 5RWHP/5RWTQ MORE from 5500 to 7000 then the MACS/2.5in Y.

But the Macs made 12 to 15 MORE from 3000 to 5400
I'm sorry guys but this was dynoed back to back.

SAM RACING are no dummies.They found some very similar results.Along with Patrick G.

Fernis,I agree with u it wasnt a good comparo but what do u truely think?Maybe the steps are too big for a 346? Do u think if I made a 2.75 or even a 2.5in Y for the DYNAS that it might be an interesting dyno result?

Dave you never ran your car (new setup) w/the smaller Grots.You dont now how the car wouldve reacted?

I still think the bigger header is a waste for a 346.A GROTT,TTS,FLP or MAC in a 1 3/4in is plenty.

JS

<small>[ August 22, 2002, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>

 

I think the big step headers are too much for most stock cube 346ci setups.

But I think that the Mac midlength headers are one step in the wrong direction.

I'd stay with a 1&3/4 SLP, FLP, TTS, Hooker or Grot longtube with a 3" ORP and a 3" merge collector is pretty much an ideal setup.

True you can lose bottom end torque with some setups but most A4 hotrod setups don't spent anytime below 4500, and most of their time above 5000 going down the track.

I could use some Dyna steps, anybody want to trade for my TTS headers?

 

John my converter is wrong for my car,I agree that when my TP4400 goes back in and I am running threw the gears and dropping to say 5500 to 5700 on a 6800 shift point,then YES the Dynas may shine?

It would be interesting to see if my car picked up with 1 3/4in Dynas.The big headers are over kill for a 346....

I still believe the 3in collector is too big for a 346.I talked to about is SAM and Patrick G,so u know its comming from a reliable source.

Tell ya what John,u buy a set of 1 3/4in Dynas for me and ship them to me,I'll ship u my STEPPED DYNAS and pay the shipping on both sets of headers.U would need to get me 3in collectors (non merge) too and u would get my stepped 3in collectors for the stepped headers.

JS

<small>[ August 22, 2002, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: JS ]</small>