gwj

Jay, I modded my thermo to open at roughly 180. The major difference you will see regardless of thermo open temp, is when you have your fans set to turn on/off; here in FL the water temp will hit the fan ON temp (+-190*) practically any time of year.
Essentially, the earlier open/lower temp thermo IMO is useless w/o adjusted fan turn on temps for normal driving.
I've monitored this w/ATAP many times. Given a choice between a lower temp thermo and quicker fan turn on, I would choose the fan turn on, anytime.
IMO.

1999Daytona500PaceCar

iTrader: (2)

Oh, I did forget to mention that I set my fan settings as if I have a 160* T-stat to help keep things maybe a bit cooler than the 180*.

WILWAXU

iTrader: (6)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>Oh, I did forget to mention that I set my fan settings as if I have a 160* T-stat to help keep things maybe a bit cooler than the 180*.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's been my experience that a car setup like that actually runs hotter than the stock settings ..

<small>[ October 02, 2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: WILWAXU ]</small>

LS1 JAY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by WILWAXU:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1999Daytona500PaceCar:
<strong>Oh, I did forget to mention that I set my fan settings as if I have a 160* T-stat to help keep things maybe a bit cooler than the 180*.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's been my experience that a car setup like that actually runs hotter than the stock settings ..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey John, you run a 160* right?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

WILWAXU

iTrader: (6)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1JAY:
<strong>Hey John, you run a 160* right?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OOh yeah, but I had a chance to tinker around with the SS and then the Formula. Ran SS with different fan settings, then got the 160 t-stat. Then the Formula for a while with a 160 stat and stock settings... (before HPP was available).

LS1 JAY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by WILWAXU:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1JAY:
<strong>Hey John, you run a 160* right?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OOh yeah, but I had a chance to tinker around with the SS and then the Formula. Ran SS with different fan settings, then got the 160 t-stat. Then the Formula for a while with a 160 stat and stock settings... (before HPP was available).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So what was your findings? was there any loss of performance from running a 160* -VS- stock?

gwj

I run 194/210 fan settings w/my 180 'stat. When I line up to run, I put the manual fan switch on high until I nail it if the temp is close to fan turn on temp;if the ambient air is 85+, or if I'm making back to back runs, to help cool the trans oil and bring a little fresh air by the IAT.
(we don't have a track here,so I can't quantify everything)
Works for me.

eallanboggs

iTrader: (1)

What's the big deal about thermostats. The 160' stat just opens a little sooner. THAT'S ALL! It doesn't bring engine temps down. Conversely the 180' stat doesn't increase engine temps. It merely delays the time it takes before the water begins to circulate thru the radiator. NOTHING MORE! When I took OBDII certification we were taught that a cooler engine would perform better, while a slightly warmer engine would last longer. Maybe that's why the factory comes with a 180' stat. If you want your engine to run cooler you have to do more than just change your thermostat.

WILWAXU

iTrader: (6)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1JAY:
<strong>So what was your findings? was there any loss of performance from running a 160* -VS- stock?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Honestly.. not much.

The best thing was "recovery" time and the difference in temp with the Whisper Ram Air in place blocking a portion of the radiator.

Recovery meaning how quicky the car can back to a cooler temp. (drag racing.. back to back runs at BMP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

titanium barchetta

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by eallanboggs:
<strong>What's the big deal about thermostats. The 160' stat just opens a little sooner. THAT'S ALL! It doesn't bring engine temps down. Conversely the 180' stat doesn't increase engine temps. It merely delays the time it takes before the water begins to circulate thru the radiator. NOTHING MORE! When I took OBDII certification we were taught that a cooler engine would perform better, while a slightly warmer engine would last longer. Maybe that's why the factory comes with a 180' stat. If you want your engine to run cooler you have to do more than just change your thermostat.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Finally, someone with a brain. The cooler thermostat merely opens sooner, and then never really closes causing the water to never really stay in the radiator long enough to remove the heat! The 180 thermo opens later, and actually closes for a short amount of time, letting the water move slower through the radiator, thereby removing more heat!

I know there are some intelligent people on this board, but I will place my money on the countless engineers who designed the cars with the 180-195 thermos! It is the oldest little gimmick in the "free mod" list, which doesn't do **** except give the placebo effect to the owner.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Aside from the fact that in cold climates the computer never thinks the car is warm, and keeps dumping excess fuel trying to warm it up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ October 03, 2002, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: titanium potty ]</small>

LS1 JAY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by titanium potty:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by eallanboggs:
<strong>What's the big deal about thermostats. The 160' stat just opens a little sooner. THAT'S ALL! It doesn't bring engine temps down. Conversely the 180' stat doesn't increase engine temps. It merely delays the time it takes before the water begins to circulate thru the radiator. NOTHING MORE! When I took OBDII certification we were taught that a cooler engine would perform better, while a slightly warmer engine would last longer. Maybe that's why the factory comes with a 180' stat. If you want your engine to run cooler you have to do more than just change your thermostat.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Finally, someone with a brain. The cooler thermostat merely opens sooner, and then never really closes causing the water to never really stay in the radiator long enough to remove the heat! The 180 thermo opens later, and actually closes for a short amount of time, letting the water move slower through the radiator, thereby removing more heat!

I know there are some intelligent people on this board, but I will place my money on the countless engineers who designed the cars with the 180-195 thermos! It is the oldest little gimmick in the "free mod" list, which doesn't do **** except give the placebo effect to the owner.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Aside from the fact that in cold climates the computer never thinks the car is warm, and keeps dumping excess fuel trying to warm it up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats strange, can you explain why my car now runs a average of 185* compared to a average of 205* by switching to a 160* and setting the fans? can you explain why my detonation and KR dissapered when I switched to a 160* over the stock set up? trust me, a 160* does do something! especially if you are having problems with detonation! that is the ONLY reason why I run one, not for a HP increase, I did it to get rid of the detonation and it worked 100%!

NC Guy

Amen,

Spark knock and pre-ignition are also problems that a 160F T-stat might cure.

Bottem line is to keep the cooling system clean and run a lower T-stat of your choice.

Enjoy your cars.

eallanboggs

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LS1JAY:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by titanium potty:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by eallanboggs:
<strong>What's the big deal about thermostats. The 160' stat just opens a little sooner. THAT'S ALL! It doesn't bring engine temps down. Conversely the 180' stat doesn't increase engine temps. It merely delays the time it takes before the water begins to circulate thru the radiator. NOTHING MORE! When I took OBDII certification we were taught that a cooler engine would perform better, while a slightly warmer engine would last longer. Maybe that's why the factory comes with a 180' stat. If you want your engine to run cooler you have to do more than just change your thermostat.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Finally, someone with a brain. The cooler thermostat merely opens sooner, and then never really closes causing the water to never really stay in the radiator long enough to remove the heat! The 180 thermo opens later, and actually closes for a short amount of time, letting the water move slower through the radiator, thereby removing more heat!

I know there are some intelligent people on this board, but I will place my money on the countless engineers who designed the cars with the 180-195 thermos! It is the oldest little gimmick in the "free mod" list, which doesn't do **** except give the placebo effect to the owner.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> Aside from the fact that in cold climates the computer never thinks the car is warm, and keeps dumping excess fuel trying to warm it up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats strange, can you explain why my car now runs a average of 185* compared to a average of 205* by switching to a 160* and setting the fans? can you explain why my detonation and KR dissapered when I switched to a 160* over the stock set up? trust me, a 160* does do something! especially if you are having problems with detonation! that is the ONLY reason why I run one, not for a HP increase, I did it to get rid of the detonation and it worked 100%!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You actually right, but the water temp coming down is a side effect of the 160' stat. What is happening is that the 160' stat is slowing down the rate of water flow thru the radiator allowing the radiator to bleed off more heat. I proved this to myself after I installed a 160' stat and saw the temp come down a little. I figured if a 160' stat is good no stat at all would be even better. I gutted my 160' stat and put it back in. The water temp immediately went HIGHER than it had originally been with a 180' or even a 195' stat. The reason is the water was flowing unrestricted thru the radiator so fast that it wasn't there long enough to get cooled down. I put the guts back in the 160' stat and the temp came right back down to where it had been. So this means the stat has a dual function. One to determine WHEN to let the water start flowing thru the radiator and secondly at what RATE to allow the water to flow. I you can figure out the ideal flow rate you can get the most efficiency from your radiator = lower water temp. I believe the 160' comes closest to this ideal.

XFiveLiter

I run a 160 stat w/stock fan settings. It runs at 180-200 around town ('98s have a useful temp gauge). At the track I use the manual fan switch to cool the motor to 160 and run air across the trans cooler. Best of both worlds IMO.

PS: I think I'll have to switch back to the stock stat in the winter.

02 'Hawk

Ed Wright told me he gets best power fro LS1 with temps between 180 and 190.

I run a 160 stat. with the FTRA and summer heat here in Arizona, it gets plenty warm. Scanmaster temp tells me up to 220 with AC on but i keep the fan switch so i stay around 200.

I've not dyno'd at different temps but have a few runs listed I want to make, combinations to try, etc., just to see. <img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />

Chris

LS1 JAY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 02 'Hawk:
<strong>Ed Wright told me he gets best power fro LS1 with temps between 180 and 190.
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which is pretty much where you will be with a 160* thermostat in a LS1.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Colonel

Yep, in each of the cases that I've seen actual dyno testing comparing thermostats (not many and not in awhile) about 180 degrees is found to be best. That's 160 thermostat land folks.

"...but I will place my money on the countless engineers who designed the cars with the 180-195 thermos!"

LOL! You mean the same engineers that are responsible for those bullet proof 10-bolt rearends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , distinctly fragrant M6 clutches, wheel hoppin' LCAs and TQ arms, pretzle pushrods, cylinder slappin' pistons, strangling air lids and air box complete with el-cheapo paper filter...oh, and don't forget those amazingly non-conductive platinum plugs with the little pucks that fall off before the first oil change leaving the plug gap at .070? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> You mean THOSE same engineers are the ones that set the thermostat temp for max performance, ehh? <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

It's been plain and clear through my own experience and through the experience of many others over the years that a 160 thermo does a great job of cutting down on or eliminating real KR. That means better power.

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: Colonel ]</small>

LS1 JAY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong>Yep, in each of the cases that I've seen actual dyno testing comparing thermostats (not many and not in awhile) about 180 degrees is found to be best. That's 160 thermostat land folks.

"...but I will place my money on the countless engineers who designed the cars with the 180-195 thermos!"

LOL! You mean the same engineers that are responsible for those bullet proof 10-bolt rearends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , distinctly fragrant M6 clutches, wheel hoppin' LCAs and TQ arms, pretzle pushrods, cylinder slappin' pistons, strangling air lids and air box complete with el-cheapo paper filter...oh, and don't forget those amazingly non-conductive platinum plugs with the little pucks that fall off before the first oil change leaving the plug gap at .070? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> You mean THOSE same engineers are the ones that set the thermostat temp for max performance, ehh? <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

It's been plain and clear through my own experience and through the experience of many others over the years that a 160 thermo does a great job of cutting down on or eliminating real KR. That means better power.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great explanation Colonel! maybe your explanation will settle the debate once and for all? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Murdock

iTrader: (2)

Good gunslingin' Colonel. <img border="0" alt="[guns]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" />

Also, even if the all-mighty engineer's made a "perfect" design, you need to remember they aren't designing for max power. There's emissions to worry about too.

How many of you buy $1000 header's then smash the driver's side y-pipe into a pancake to match the obviously superior GM design? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

ROB'S SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Colonel:
<strong>

LOL! You mean the same engineers that are responsible for those bullet proof 10-bolt rearends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , distinctly fragrant M6 clutches, </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thats funny because i used those same words in the last ls1.com thread about thermostats <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

<small>[ October 08, 2002, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: ROB'S SS ]</small>