X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ?
X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? Does the X pipe or H pipe equal any HP gains? Or is this more of a sound preferance? Is it worth all the trouble, is the Y pipe not very effective? Come on pros > you've got some strong opions. Lets hear them. <img border="0" alt="[guns]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_guns.gif" />
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 352
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From: san antonio/college station tx
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? The X makes more power than all of them, and is the mid-quietest. IMHO is also the best sounding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Scott
Scott
!Dial-up Director
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,100
Likes: 1
From: Louisiana
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? The x-pipe does indeed get rid of the rasp. I have duals with bullets off the headers.
http://www.fryrice.com/images/truedual/
We are going to rework the exhasut to get some more ground clearence. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> The sounds is pure extascy.
btw, you have my dream job. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Justin
<small>[ October 15, 2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Jsears8 ]</small>
http://www.fryrice.com/images/truedual/
We are going to rework the exhasut to get some more ground clearence. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> The sounds is pure extascy.
btw, you have my dream job. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Justin
<small>[ October 15, 2002, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Jsears8 ]</small>
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Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? no rasp with the x-pipe and it sounds good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 770
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From: WA
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? The X does not get rid of the rasp. The X helps a little, but it's more the muffler choice, that helps with sound.
Jsears8
Your X looks really good. I still hear alot of rasp/poping but it sounds alot better than your last setup. OMG it had a nasty rasp!
Sweet site. I like the main page pic.
Here's a pic my Y. I designed it for my Grotyohanns, and had a couple buddies help build/weld. It's a 3" Y with a 3.5" collector and Dynatech Splitflow Muffler. It's got a deep rumbling tone. No sound clips yet but I hope to have some ASAP. I've been thinking about building a X, But this Y sounds sweet.
<img src="http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/d2bfde5e/bc/Race+Exhaust/Y1.jpg?bc72O19A2Fu5erK_" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/d2bfde5e/bc/Race+Exhaust/Y2.jpg?bc72O19ArT1GHDf2" alt=" - " />
<img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
Jsears8
Your X looks really good. I still hear alot of rasp/poping but it sounds alot better than your last setup. OMG it had a nasty rasp!
Sweet site. I like the main page pic.
Here's a pic my Y. I designed it for my Grotyohanns, and had a couple buddies help build/weld. It's a 3" Y with a 3.5" collector and Dynatech Splitflow Muffler. It's got a deep rumbling tone. No sound clips yet but I hope to have some ASAP. I've been thinking about building a X, But this Y sounds sweet.
<img src="http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/d2bfde5e/bc/Race+Exhaust/Y1.jpg?bc72O19A2Fu5erK_" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/d2bfde5e/bc/Race+Exhaust/Y2.jpg?bc72O19ArT1GHDf2" alt=" - " />
<img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? Its just the way that the resonance works with our cars. If it makes power, who cares.
I had the FLP setup, and the rasp was just gross. When I went to an X, the rasp was moved up, around 3-3500 where as the FLP rasp was crusing rpm- 2-2500.
I have a graph here with a before and after from the Y to the X, but no scanner and no place to host it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Louis
I had the FLP setup, and the rasp was just gross. When I went to an X, the rasp was moved up, around 3-3500 where as the FLP rasp was crusing rpm- 2-2500.
I have a graph here with a before and after from the Y to the X, but no scanner and no place to host it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
Louis
!Dial-up Director
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,100
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From: Louisiana
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? Mike (mgreen) I have dynoed comparing the diffenece between open headers vs xpipe, fwiw.
http://www.fryrice.com/images/dualdyno.jpg
Justin
http://www.fryrice.com/images/dualdyno.jpg
Justin
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 362
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From: IL
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? Looks good justin. . .
which one is the X-pipe?
In any case, I imagine a y-pipe with dual 3" into 4" outlet flowmaster collector would make similar power. . . guess we'll never know.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
which one is the X-pipe?
In any case, I imagine a y-pipe with dual 3" into 4" outlet flowmaster collector would make similar power. . . guess we'll never know.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 540
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From: Native Texan
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? This was my reply in a very similar post, so here is my .02.
"Ok I think that the Y pipe will make more power, here is why. If you study exhaust theory you will find that you have a positive and negative exhaust pulse. The negative pulse is a return pressure wave that travels back up the exhaust stream (exhaust pipe) and helps with scavenging. Next you have people comparing X pipe and crossovers, well I think most people miss the boat. An x pipe works so well because it allows the exhaust to use both negative exhaust pulses on both engine banks. If you were to use a Y pipe that was sized accordingly you will see at least the same amout of power as the x pipe if not more (because of the stronger negative pressure wave by only using one exhaust pipe.) The reason so many people are not satisfied with a Y pipe is because they are sized wrong. If you were to have a Y pipe exhaust that would have the same volume as a 2.5 true dual exhaust you would need 2.5 inch tubes in to the Y pipe and a 3.5 in your I pipe. Also I do not like crossflow mufflers, try to stay with a strait through design (Dynomax Ultraflo, Magnaflow). As a side note you can take advantage of the X pipe effect with a Y pipe and you can still us a balance tube on the end of the header collectors."
Later,
Bart
"Ok I think that the Y pipe will make more power, here is why. If you study exhaust theory you will find that you have a positive and negative exhaust pulse. The negative pulse is a return pressure wave that travels back up the exhaust stream (exhaust pipe) and helps with scavenging. Next you have people comparing X pipe and crossovers, well I think most people miss the boat. An x pipe works so well because it allows the exhaust to use both negative exhaust pulses on both engine banks. If you were to use a Y pipe that was sized accordingly you will see at least the same amout of power as the x pipe if not more (because of the stronger negative pressure wave by only using one exhaust pipe.) The reason so many people are not satisfied with a Y pipe is because they are sized wrong. If you were to have a Y pipe exhaust that would have the same volume as a 2.5 true dual exhaust you would need 2.5 inch tubes in to the Y pipe and a 3.5 in your I pipe. Also I do not like crossflow mufflers, try to stay with a strait through design (Dynomax Ultraflo, Magnaflow). As a side note you can take advantage of the X pipe effect with a Y pipe and you can still us a balance tube on the end of the header collectors."
Later,
Bart
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? Thanks for all the input! I'm looking at bad02ws6 design. <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> It looks very simple and effective! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> What if the X was a muffler? Where the pipes cross > what if that dead spot was a muffler, and it split was after that > or would that just be stupid? <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? Theory and results are 2 different things. Yea it looks good on paper, but it doesnt work on the cars. Why? I cant tell you, but I do know that an X will make more power than a y. I am starring at a comparison graph of mine, as well as Jsears8, and they have the same thing, only my topend actually picked up due to no mufflers.
FLP has a nice 2.5" y pipe, and I consistently pick up 10-12 going open header with the test pipes for extensions.
On a brighter note, a Y may work better, but given the space and size restrictions, an X handles the job much better.
If the engine was on a dyno in a room with no space limitations, sure. Design what you will, and it may be the best thing out there. BUT if it doesnt fit...what good does it do? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Not ripping anyone, but to each his own <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
Louis
FLP has a nice 2.5" y pipe, and I consistently pick up 10-12 going open header with the test pipes for extensions.
On a brighter note, a Y may work better, but given the space and size restrictions, an X handles the job much better.
If the engine was on a dyno in a room with no space limitations, sure. Design what you will, and it may be the best thing out there. BUT if it doesnt fit...what good does it do? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Not ripping anyone, but to each his own <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
Louis
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
From: Birmingham, AL
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? I want to know more about this balancer tube in the y-pipe. Is there any performance downside/benefit to it? Does it affect the sound of the exhaust and if so in what way? Is this something that only people running off road pipes (no cats) will benefit from?
Teching In
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Pearl City, HI
Re: X vs. Y vs. H =mc2 ? What about two chambered mufflers instead regular or bullet mufflers after the x or h pipe? How would that sound and/or if anyone has done this yet? Maybe it will sound like the GMMG or better. Just a thought.
Dan <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
Dan <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />