Trying to figure out if the Fast 90 intake is really worth the money. I already have a LS6 intake, so how much more HP should it produce? Will the HP come at the expense of low to mid-range torque? I have read that the Fast 90 is really only good to 6300 rpm, so how does that compare to the LS6?

Let me try and make this question as close to an apples to apples comparison. Lets say if the engine was a 346 with 10.5 scr, 230/236 .592/.602 112 LSA, Patriot Stage II LS6 heads, 1 ¾ long tube headers, M6, 3.55 diff. The only thing that changes is the Intake Manifold.

If that Cam is a poor choice, how would picture change with the Patrick G torque cam in relationship to either using the FAST 90 -VS – LS6 intake? and the other parts remain the same.

 

I gained lots of power running a much smaller cam along with stock manifolds and cats. Even with all that, I gained over 27 rwhp by upgrading from my LS6 intake and stage 3 TB to a FAST 90 (ported by Tony Mamo) and a Nick Williams TB.

 

The intake should only help. If you loose low-end, it's probablly because of a poor set-up. Since the intakes are the bottle necks on these cars, adding a better intake only helps. If you had no internal work, I'd say stick with the LS-6, but H/C and up, go FAST 90 or better.

 

Patrick, how much of that 27 hp was due to the porting by Mamo? I'd bet it was at least 10hp/10tq. Looks like you're paying about 1k bucks for 15 rear wheel over an LS6/ported stock TB combo. Now its up to him to decide if it is worth it.

 

i dont thinks its worth the price...a ls6 works fine

 

I'm never upgrading to Fast. That $1k I can put down towards a turbo kit. If you got money and a desire to go all out NA, that's your ticket.

 

I think that curve is incredible, especially if you consider a head change would net around the same results and the intake is a lot less work and money for that matter. In the bang for buck department, it appears to be on par with many of the other modification that are done.

 

If hand ported its over 1k. Im also unaware if you could re-port the manifold to match the new heads after just being cam only. W/ all the budget heads out there I think the cost/benifit ratio shrinks a little. Ill end up going that route down the road because I'd really like the 2mph or so boost from the FAST to help me get to a 120 trap cam only.

 

I'd go for it. My uncle's 404ci Z06 just had a FAST put on and gained 20rwhp and it was unported. Although his car demands more air than a 346ci it would still be benficial.

 

It is my understanding that there is some build up of the port with epoxy to port match, so it seems logical that one could do the same or grind out the epoxy to port match to different heads.

 

Thats what its all about....

Some mods are cost effective and others aren't....with most of them coming somewhere in the middle.

Let's look at the typical mods 90% of this board consider swapping. The gains listed as well as the cost would be an average (not the highest...not the lowest....just kind of typical) and are purely my opinion based on results seen here almost everyday. Note that labor and tuning are not included which could change the dollar per HP figures significantly.

Mod.....................................Cost...... .........Gains................$$ per HP

Camswap (Excellent value).......$400...............40 HP...............10 per pony!

Underdrive pulley/belts.............$275................5 HP...............55 per pony

Airlid (Fresh air intake).............$250...............10 HP...............25 per pony

Electric Water Pump................$500................5 HP...............100 per pony

Headers/Exhaust sytem............$1500..............15 HP..............100 per pony

Cylinder heads (avg. quality).....$1300..............20 HP..............65 per pony

Cylinder heads (above avg.)......$2300..............40 HP..............58 per pony

FAST intake (78 mm version).....$700...............10 HP..............70 per pony

FAST intake (+ 90 mm TB cost)..$1350..............15 HP.............90 per pony

Ported FAST 90 set-up.............$1850...............22 HP.............84 per pony

Stroker Short Block (LS2)..........$4500...............40 HP............113 per pony

Blower Kit (Street boost levels)..$6500...............125 HP...........52 per pony

Nitrous Kit (Pills for "Street")......$750.................125 HP...........6 per pony!!

I'm sure I am missing a few upgrades I could insert in this list but these are certainly some of the most common that quickly come to mind. I might update this list as we go.

Also, very important to consider that some of these options require labor that most pay for as well as chassis dyno time which will add significantly to the cost as well as the dollars per HP.

What have we learned??

Nitrous still is and always will be the biggest bang for the buck going.

A cam swap is practically the first thing you should do.

On average, every single HP you are looking to "purchase" will probably cost you around $80 or so (more starts to become expensive....less starts to look like a value)....especially when you input the real dollar per mod based on labor, tuning costs, and other small items you will be forced to purchase (new head gaskets etc.).

And finally, the addition of a FAST intake (be it ported or stock) is no worse a value then most of the other mods you do.....those that say it's not worth it are probably not giving enough thought to the "cost versus benefits" some of the other mods they choose to do (or are considering doing).

Speed/Power cost money....do the most cost effective mods first and start working your way up from there. As you continue to search for more (power), undoubtedly your dollars spent to get that power will continue to rise. Thats just the way it is....

Of course this is all JMO, but it was kind of a fun little exercise that brings alot of good points to light and gives you guys something else to consider.

Tony M.

 

I think what everyones arguement is that says the ported FAST intake costs too much is baseing the fact that an ls6 intake gives almost the same result for a third the price and less hassle so for the average ls1 owner a FAST intake isn't really worth the trouble.

 

I disagree....

The gains I am quoting are using the LS6 as a baseline....NOT the LS1.

I recently swapped a ported FAST on the engine dyno and picked up 28 HP over an LS2 with no other changes. Thats an insane amount of power from an intake swap. Granted....I think an LS6 would have been 5-6 better than the LS2, but that's about it.

Numerous people have picked up significantly over the LS6 with FAST intakes....ported or otherwise. And I have personally been involved with at least a half a dozen dyno tests that have all showed me similar gains swapping to the FAST.

A FAST is simply a superior manifold and was designed as a performance piece from it's inception.

 

Porting the Fast 90 intake is not rocket science...every intake runner needs cleaning up there is a big chunk of plastic that does not match up in each one..just use a little common sense and when you chop, cut, rebuild on it.. .. excuse me I couldn't help myself I watch too much speed channel on TV.. ..I would say that it is probably only good for 5 or 10 HP without cleaning it up..I was surprised at how much needed to be done to it when I got mine..

 

The FAST intake is definately worth it, and depending on your goals with the car, porting the intake is definately a worthwhile mod as well, ESPECIALLY if the combination of your motor will take full advantage of it. I know as soon as i've got the cash, I'll be sending off an intake to Tony and have it ported to work with my 408/AFR 225 combo.

Btw. A cam package is going to run about double the price of $400 you have listed there. Once you factor in the necessary valve springs and pushrods you can easily be between $700-$800. IMO, still the most worthwhile mod ever done on a LS1 car though!

 

I wasn't disputeing the gains i was simply saying that people staying on the mild side of the mod spectrum may not need or want the very best(aka the most expensive) peice. I personally would be just as happy gaining 15 rwhp from an ls6 intake that cost 500 then 28 from a FAST intake that cost 1500.

 

My cam package from TSP came with valve springs, pushrods, locks, and the cam for a little over $600 shipped.

 

You will come to a point where the next thing you will have to do is change out the LS 6 intake and TB for a larger intake and 90 MM TB to gain any more HP..that is the reason that I bought them...I prefer that to a shot of the giggle gas..which is still the most HP for dollar spent mod you can do..I am old school and like N\A engines..to each his own..if we were all the same it be a dull phuchin world..

 

I'm running right at 500rwhp with an LS6. CNC heads, stock size valves, 1 3/4 melrose headers and a TSP cam/spring kit. I still have the stock LS6 manifold and TB (ported). I would spend my money eleswhere.

 

What's to say that with that much power you wouldn't notice an even bigger gain though, and be at 540rwhp instead of 500rwhp?