Speedfreaks101

Well even the ricers call it CAI. I did not buy mine for performance I bought mine for the styling, and when I finally find a way to stuff a whipple charger and intercooler under the cowl then I will have real ram air. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Mach Go

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:
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Originally posted by db99sscam:
Does air act like fluid?

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Yes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NO.... a fluid can not compress...air can

Mach Go

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Bonus question: can water exist as a solid, a liquid and a gas at the same time in the same container? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">YES <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

SScam68

iTrader: (20)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> when I finally find a way to stuff a whipple charger and intercooler under the cowl then I will have real ram air. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

Fenris Ulf

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mach Go:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by db99sscam:
Does air act like fluid?

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Yes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NO.... a fluid can not compress...air can </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A fluid is not a liquid, but a liquid can be a fluid. By definition a fluid, such as water or air, deforms continuously when acted on by a shearing stress of any magnitude. In other words anything that is not solid is a fluid.

Fenris Ulf

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Old SStroker:
<strong>Bonus question: can water exist as a solid, a liquid and a gas at the same time in the same container? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you are speaking of the triple point of water which occurs at 273.16K and 611.2 Pa, then yes...

Do I get a cookie? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

WS6 GreeN

I bought a WS6 because it looked cool! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

2000LS1

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mach Go:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by db99sscam:
Does air act like fluid?

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Yes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NO.... a fluid can not compress...air can </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, air is a fluid... according to my Atmospheric Science professor at least <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ April 20, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: 2000LS1 ]</small>

Seifer

well, his static vs kinetic energy theory might be right, he messed up his math a little..

he mentions that a supercharger uses the engines power to compact air and deliver it to the engine cyl in order to create MORE power..

and how turbos use hot exhaust gasses to pressurize air to deliver added power..

well, the ram air scoop creates drag that eats power in order to ram air down the gullet of your intake system.

i dont know how efficient it is, but i do believe it is good for 7-10horsepower..

Old SStroker

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Fenris Ulf:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Old SStroker:
<strong>Bonus question: can water exist as a solid, a liquid and a gas at the same time in the same container? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you are speaking of the triple point of water which occurs at 273.16K and 611.2 Pa, then yes...

Do I get a cookie? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Would you settle for a Girl Scout instead? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Mach Go

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, air is a fluid... according to my Atmospheric Science professor at least </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My bad...duh...I got all caught up in the
'RAM AIR MYTH' excitement that I lost my perspective. <img border="0" alt="[bang head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />

fak005

ttt

Jammer

iTrader: (1)

Well we can quote webster, add out 2 cents, and all that, but this thread is a perfect example of what happens when engineers speak/converse with the general public. Engineers, for the most part are very literal individuals.... just ask one to comment on the following phrase and grammer ( the roof will last + - 2 years.) While most of us undertand this it's incorrect syntax, and an engineer will correct you, with a literal answer. GM used a cool word and concept as that word applies to the impression they wanted to send...part marketing argueably factual, but certainly not a term used in the R and D center with regard to specific measurement charistics.
Fact is, cars with the ram air, especially with the BG kit, run a tad faster...but of course thats not the point of the thread.

Fenris Ulf

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Old SStroker:
<strong> Would you settle for a Girl Scout instead? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

unit213

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JamMasterJ:
<strong> Fact is, cars with the ram air, especially with the BG kit, run a tad faster...but of course thats not the point of the thread. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's not a fact. Ram Air LS1's don't do any better (in stock form) at the track. Maybe the BG kit helps. Not sure there. From the factory, a Z28 and a WS6 will run just about the same providing the playing field is equal (same tranny, model year, etc.).

SiggyBaby

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JamMasterJ:
<strong> Fact is, cars with the ram air, especially with the BG kit, run a tad faster</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree with that statement.

gwj

Whew! Speaking about the original quote, all I can say is PH'Ds postulate, technicians build. Theory of fluid dynamics is a fine and worthy field; but beaucoupe hours of fab/testing by your average Joe proves what works,regardless from whom the idea originates.

Jpr5690

iTrader: (13)

if its worth anyhitng when i added my under car ram air kit i noticed it espacially in gas milage
as far as a mild pressurisation i dont belive gm relased it without some basis of its turth purely beacouse if they did and it was all bs then we could then sue the sh*t out of them for false advertising! IM not claiming to be a physics major but i do belive one of the worlds laregest companys knows what their talking about more than a few professors. if the professors knew more than they would be as rich and the bob lutz gang and not driving the crappy rice burners they all drive imho- john

Jammer

iTrader: (1)

Ok , i may have gotten carried away with stating the ram air cars are a tad bit faster..stock for stock....I should have stated , I have, on a few occasions, seen the ram air cars have a slight edge. Again...could be the cool air..could be luck...could be that the ones I saw just ran better out of the box. See what happens when we type sometimes...bias comes out.
I will stick to a claim that the BG ram makes a difference...all beit 1-2 mph in 1320.

o0Dan0o

iTrader: (1)

He is correct that the “ram air” system does not add a significant amount of horse power by compressing air. And most of his assumptions are correct, but most of them do not apply. The obvious benefit of a “ram air” system is as a cold air induction, but that has been beat to death. What has been commented on, but not fully explained, is that the “ram air” system does not need to compress the air or bring in cooler air to increase horse power, in fact it doesn’t even have to be moving.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by sscam68:
<strong>
1. Cooler air temps
2. improved volumetric efficiency
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bingo. Volumetric efficacy. A properly designed air inlet will provide clean (un-turbulent) airflow that will add no restriction to the induction system, in a perfect world anyway. In other words, we get back to flow numbers. The actually process for designing a perfect air inlet is immensely complex, and depends on an extremely large amount of variables, and I won’t get into it. Basically, the WS6 “ram air” is most likely more efficient then sucking the air from a fender. As for companies designing “ram air” units, its more or less hit or miss unless they have some pretty hefty engineering going on. The Fast Toys unit seems to have done well, but I don’t like the idea of sticking that in front of my radiator.

Of course, the fact that the air is entering the filter box at some velocity, which is most likely much less then the velocity of the car, helps, I.E. the engine doesn’t have to accelerate the air quite as much (F=M*A). But at 6,000 RPM’s your engine is sucking in roughly 285 liters of air per second (5.7L*.5(intake strokes per rev)*6000RPM/60=liters per second), so this isn’t going to help much… To this extent, I would guess that while racing, the airbox has a small relative vacuum, even at speed with a ram air.

Like someone said, air will compress at any velocity, its just to a very small extent. Here is a fun experiment, try this at your own risk. Go to walmart and buy a funnel that is about 4-5 inches in diameter at the large end, and ¼ inch or so in diameter on the other end, and grab a bag of balloons. Take a balloon and put it over the small end of the funnel, make sure it is secure. Then, simply get your friend to take you for a ride on the freeway and stick the funnel, big end facing forward, out the window. See how to balloon inflates with speed, it shouldn’t be much, actually I’m not sure it will to any noticeable extent, but it should be fun. But, as has been covered, I doubt enough pressure will be created to do much of anything to help HP.

So basically, a good “ram air” will provide the shortest path with the lest resistance and the coolest possible air charge, which I think the WS6 “ram air” hood does, well with a little help anyway.
Dan