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Tested all major spark plug wires. My results...
11-30-2006, 05:45 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Camaroholic
While resistance checking is good to see if a wire is broken or not, it is my opinion that you are not going to see any benefit with a lower resistance wire. Get the one that is the most durable.
I'm inclined to agree with Magnecor.
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm
Testing with a DC ohmmeter that's powered by less than 9 volts (mine uses 4 aa batteries) is certainly going to have different electrical characteristics than testing at 40,000 volts of spark arc.
And remember, your spark is jumping an air gap. Which has, oh, let's say for argument's sake 10,000,000 (10 megohms) resistance, even though in reality it's much higher (test the air gap with your DC ohmmeter
).
Difference between 10,000,000.1 and 10,000,500? Really pretty insignificant in the big picture.
That's why I don't buy in to claims of any power increase with plug wires. At all. Replacing bad wires will result in a power increase (duh) because you're fixing misfires.
I check my wires for continuity with my ohmmeter, but I do not rate performance of a wire based on the resistance.
I'm inclined to agree with Magnecor.
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm
Testing with a DC ohmmeter that's powered by less than 9 volts (mine uses 4 aa batteries) is certainly going to have different electrical characteristics than testing at 40,000 volts of spark arc.
And remember, your spark is jumping an air gap. Which has, oh, let's say for argument's sake 10,000,000 (10 megohms) resistance, even though in reality it's much higher (test the air gap with your DC ohmmeter
).Difference between 10,000,000.1 and 10,000,500? Really pretty insignificant in the big picture.
That's why I don't buy in to claims of any power increase with plug wires. At all. Replacing bad wires will result in a power increase (duh) because you're fixing misfires.
I check my wires for continuity with my ohmmeter, but I do not rate performance of a wire based on the resistance.
I understand your point though, it is bound ot be much higher than the resistance in the wires themselves.
11-30-2006, 06:31 PM
#22
I went back to GM ls6 wires with the angled boot. The MSDs were continually unseating themselves leaving me with a miss till i snapped them back onto the plug. The MSDs were also laying on the headers and burning. Ive had no problems going back to the GMs.
At 40,000 volts, how much of a difference will 300 ohms make? I guess technically a lot compared to .25 ohms, but regardless, its not enough to feel SOTP.
At 40,000 volts, how much of a difference will 300 ohms make? I guess technically a lot compared to .25 ohms, but regardless, its not enough to feel SOTP.
11-30-2006, 08:23 PM
#23
TECH Senior Member
Ok...
What do you mean when you say you tested near a radio...?
Do you mean you ran these wires on your engine and no EMI was heard on your radio...?
When looking to see which wires to use, do not look for low resistance, but look for spirally wound metal core (which will have low resistance); the idea is that the spiral wound conductor will produce pretty much zero magnetic field outside the spiral (provided the spiral is tightly wound); this means there will be zero losses due to electromagetic induction to nearby metal objects (i.e. no energy is used to drive currents induced externally); so all this energy is available for spark.
What do you mean when you say you tested near a radio...?
Do you mean you ran these wires on your engine and no EMI was heard on your radio...?
When looking to see which wires to use, do not look for low resistance, but look for spirally wound metal core (which will have low resistance); the idea is that the spiral wound conductor will produce pretty much zero magnetic field outside the spiral (provided the spiral is tightly wound); this means there will be zero losses due to electromagetic induction to nearby metal objects (i.e. no energy is used to drive currents induced externally); so all this energy is available for spark.
Last edited by joecar; 12-01-2006 at 01:04 PM.
12-01-2006, 02:57 PM
#24
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WHAT ABOUT THE CRANE CAMS WIRES? I have those on my car and I like them alot, go on e-z and don't pop off. I will say that they take more pressure to get them on the coil. also they come off and go back on good too.
cost only 40 bucks!!
cost only 40 bucks!!
12-01-2006, 04:59 PM
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ok.. i can see how a few hundred ohms or a few thousand ohms (OMG what crap) can make a diffrence but will 70 ohms make a diff?...(prolly not)
i have MSD's and love um...
i have MSD's and love um...
12-01-2006, 05:07 PM
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AC Delco's get my vote regardless of these "top of the line" spark plug wire company's claim......It's all BS marketing IMO. Go with what u like I guess, however I will be sticking with what came with my ride in the first place
12-02-2006, 10:05 PM
#29
EE101 and Spark Plug wire resistance MYK02K -
Well, I'll say it - Thanks for the effort!
Oh, and don't worry about trying to answer these individuals who have asked all the EE101 questions, they've already make up their minds on what they'll use regardless of the facts.
For everyone else -
V = I x R Ohm's Law (Voltage = Current x Resistance)
Power (Watts) = Amperage x Voltage (number of electrons x the strength of force)
Resistance (R) is measured in Ohms
Current (I) in Amps
Voltage (V) in Volts
Coils multiply voltage at the expense of amperage; so, you can't just magically increase both amperage AND voltage at the same time. But, as seen below, resistance is a BIG factor w/ respect to current (I) in this relationship of three.
Current flow (I) @ 100,000 Volts (typical HEI output) and 351 Ohms (stock wire resistance) = 267 Amps
but -
Current flow (I) @ 100,000 Volts (typical HEI output) and 0.1 Ohms (best aftermarket wire resistance) = 1 MILLION Amps!
Think about it! Do the math. Don't just react.
"But, MSDs rock!"
Well, children, yes they do "rock" they just don't rock better than everyone else. They are better than stock (1397 vs. 267), roughly 5 times better; but the Granatelli's are 716 TIMES better than the MSDs!
71,600 percent! That's figgin' huge!
Additionally, the Granatelli's are 3745 TIMES better than stock; that's 374,500 percent better!!
Ohm's Law is your friend.
MLE
stock LS1 6 in. - 351 ohms
Granatelli 8mm Steel Solid Core Cable - 0.1 ohms
MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor - 71.6 ohms
Accel 8.8 300+ Ferro-Spiral Race Wire - 166.1 ohms
Jacobs Electronics EnergyCore 8.5mm - 178.3 oms
Taylor Spiro Pro 8mm Silicone - 301 ohms
Mallory Pro Sidewinder 8mm Silicone Suppression Wire - 313 ohms
Moroso Blue Maz Spiral Core 8mm - 661 ohms
Magnecor KV85 Competiton 2.5mm - 2053 ohms
Well, I'll say it - Thanks for the effort!
Oh, and don't worry about trying to answer these individuals who have asked all the EE101 questions, they've already make up their minds on what they'll use regardless of the facts.
For everyone else -
V = I x R Ohm's Law (Voltage = Current x Resistance)
Power (Watts) = Amperage x Voltage (number of electrons x the strength of force)
Resistance (R) is measured in Ohms
Current (I) in Amps
Voltage (V) in Volts
Coils multiply voltage at the expense of amperage; so, you can't just magically increase both amperage AND voltage at the same time. But, as seen below, resistance is a BIG factor w/ respect to current (I) in this relationship of three.
Current flow (I) @ 100,000 Volts (typical HEI output) and 351 Ohms (stock wire resistance) = 267 Amps
but -
Current flow (I) @ 100,000 Volts (typical HEI output) and 0.1 Ohms (best aftermarket wire resistance) = 1 MILLION Amps!
Think about it! Do the math. Don't just react.
"But, MSDs rock!"
Well, children, yes they do "rock" they just don't rock better than everyone else. They are better than stock (1397 vs. 267), roughly 5 times better; but the Granatelli's are 716 TIMES better than the MSDs!
71,600 percent! That's figgin' huge!
Additionally, the Granatelli's are 3745 TIMES better than stock; that's 374,500 percent better!!
Ohm's Law is your friend.
MLE
Originally Posted by myk02k
stock LS1 6 in. - 351 ohms
Granatelli 8mm Steel Solid Core Cable - 0.1 ohms
MSD 8.5mm Super Conductor - 71.6 ohms
Accel 8.8 300+ Ferro-Spiral Race Wire - 166.1 ohms
Jacobs Electronics EnergyCore 8.5mm - 178.3 oms
Taylor Spiro Pro 8mm Silicone - 301 ohms
Mallory Pro Sidewinder 8mm Silicone Suppression Wire - 313 ohms
Moroso Blue Maz Spiral Core 8mm - 661 ohms
Magnecor KV85 Competiton 2.5mm - 2053 ohms
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jesse maldonado (12-03-2019)
12-02-2006, 10:27 PM
#32
Justin00SS -
Did you actually mean to ask: "Was there a power gain?"
Or maybe: "What was the power gain?"
If you want to know how much output is impacted, then put your car on a dyno, set a baseline, then change the plug wires and do a second set of pulls.
That info would address this topic quite nicely.
As for: “How is the engine more efficient?”
It has a greater / larger / fatter spark to better (i.e. - more efficiently) burn the fuel & air mixture in the cylinders.
MLE
Did you actually mean to ask: "Was there a power gain?"
Or maybe: "What was the power gain?"
If you want to know how much output is impacted, then put your car on a dyno, set a baseline, then change the plug wires and do a second set of pulls.
That info would address this topic quite nicely.
As for: “How is the engine more efficient?”
It has a greater / larger / fatter spark to better (i.e. - more efficiently) burn the fuel & air mixture in the cylinders.
MLE
12-02-2006, 10:30 PM
#33
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Spark plug wires are over rated. Get a good quality set that you don't have to worry about breaking or deteriorating quickly and you won't have to worry about anything.
As said before, the resistance in the wires are so small compared the the space that the spark has to jump at the spark plug that the wire resistance can become negligible.
As for the Solid core Granatelli here is an excerpt from Magnacore.com
"SOLID CORE CONDUCTOR WIRES
Solid metal (copper, tin-plated copper and/or stainless steel) conductor wires are still used in racing on carbureted engines, but can cause all sorts of running problems if used on vehicles with electronic ignition, fuel injection and engine management systems, particularly if vehicle is driven on the street — and damage to some original equipment and modern aftermarket electronic ignition and engine management systems can occur. Solid metal conductor wires cannot be suppressed to overcome EMI or RFI without the addition of current-reducing resistors at both ends of wires."
I usually find that the "power increase" from changing plugs and wires is not that the components used to replace the old ones are better, but that they are not old and worn and will therefore operate at 100%.
As said before, the resistance in the wires are so small compared the the space that the spark has to jump at the spark plug that the wire resistance can become negligible.
As for the Solid core Granatelli here is an excerpt from Magnacore.com
"SOLID CORE CONDUCTOR WIRES
Solid metal (copper, tin-plated copper and/or stainless steel) conductor wires are still used in racing on carbureted engines, but can cause all sorts of running problems if used on vehicles with electronic ignition, fuel injection and engine management systems, particularly if vehicle is driven on the street — and damage to some original equipment and modern aftermarket electronic ignition and engine management systems can occur. Solid metal conductor wires cannot be suppressed to overcome EMI or RFI without the addition of current-reducing resistors at both ends of wires."
I usually find that the "power increase" from changing plugs and wires is not that the components used to replace the old ones are better, but that they are not old and worn and will therefore operate at 100%.
Last edited by Divergent Lightning; 12-02-2006 at 10:36 PM.
12-02-2006, 10:38 PM
#34
Originally Posted by great421
Justin00SS -
Did you actually mean to ask: "Was there a power gain?"
Or maybe: "What was the power gain?"
If you want to know how much output is impacted, then put your car on a dyno, set a baseline, then change the plug wires and do a second set of pulls.
That info would address this topic quite nicely.
As for: “How is the engine more efficient?”
It has a greater / larger / fatter spark to better (i.e. - more efficiently) burn the fuel & air mixture in the cylinders.
MLE
Did you actually mean to ask: "Was there a power gain?"
Or maybe: "What was the power gain?"
If you want to know how much output is impacted, then put your car on a dyno, set a baseline, then change the plug wires and do a second set of pulls.
That info would address this topic quite nicely.
As for: “How is the engine more efficient?”
It has a greater / larger / fatter spark to better (i.e. - more efficiently) burn the fuel & air mixture in the cylinders.
MLE
Its like putting an 80mm tb on a 78mm intake. It will only flow as much as the opening on the intake right? So how much spark is enough and how much is more then enough and isn't used?
What about the coil packs themselves? They will only produce so much spark anyway.
I have seen though that the MSD coil packs and wires are good for around 5-10hp/tq though.
12-03-2006, 01:00 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by TransAminal
I have the Granatelli wires with the stainless steel cores. No electronic interference at all, same a using regular wires.
I've been very happy with them, can't beat almost 0 ohms resistance
I've been very happy with them, can't beat almost 0 ohms resistance
12-04-2006, 08:06 AM
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I have been using Magnecor wires on my cars and having seen the quality and the percieved increase in driveability and throttle response, and the actual increase in fuel mileage, I will continue to use them.
As for the resistance test, I took this straight from Magnecor's website:
I've had excellent results on all of my cars with Magnecor's wires...1999 Z-28, 1991 Nissan Stanza, 2004 Acura MDX.
As for the resistance test, I took this straight from Magnecor's website:
Some (plug wire manufacturers) publish results which show their wires are superior to a competitor's wires which use identical cable (on which another brand name is printed). The published "low" resistance (per foot) is measured with a test ohmmeter's 1 volt direct current (DC) passing through the entire length of the fine wire used for the spiral conductor.
"Low-resistance" conductors are an easy sell, as most people associate all ignition wire conductors with original equipment and replacement ignition wire carbon conductors (which progressively fail as a result of microscopic carbon granules burning away and thus reducing the spark energy to the spark plugs) and with solid wire zero-resistance conductors that were used by racers with no need for suppression. Consumers are easily led into believing that if a spiral conductor's resistance is almost zero, its performance must be similar to that of a solid metal conductor all race cars once used. HOWEVER, NOTHING IS FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!
What is not generally understood (or is ignored) is that as a result of the laws of electricity, the potential 45,000 plus volts (with alternating current characteristics) from the ignition coil (a pulse type transformer) does not flow through the entire the length of fine wire used for a spiral conductor like the 1 volt DC voltage from a test ohmmeter, but flows in a magnetic field surrounding the outermost surface of the spiral windings (skin effect). The same skin effect applies equally to the same pulsating flow of current passing through carbon and solid metal conductors.
A spiral conductor with a low electrical resistance measured by an ohmmeter indicates, in reality, nothing other than less of the expensive fine wire is used for the conductor windings — a construction which cannot achieve a clean and efficient current flow through the magnetic field surrounding the windings, resulting in poor suppression for RFI and EMI.
"Low-resistance" conductors are an easy sell, as most people associate all ignition wire conductors with original equipment and replacement ignition wire carbon conductors (which progressively fail as a result of microscopic carbon granules burning away and thus reducing the spark energy to the spark plugs) and with solid wire zero-resistance conductors that were used by racers with no need for suppression. Consumers are easily led into believing that if a spiral conductor's resistance is almost zero, its performance must be similar to that of a solid metal conductor all race cars once used. HOWEVER, NOTHING IS FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!
What is not generally understood (or is ignored) is that as a result of the laws of electricity, the potential 45,000 plus volts (with alternating current characteristics) from the ignition coil (a pulse type transformer) does not flow through the entire the length of fine wire used for a spiral conductor like the 1 volt DC voltage from a test ohmmeter, but flows in a magnetic field surrounding the outermost surface of the spiral windings (skin effect). The same skin effect applies equally to the same pulsating flow of current passing through carbon and solid metal conductors.
A spiral conductor with a low electrical resistance measured by an ohmmeter indicates, in reality, nothing other than less of the expensive fine wire is used for the conductor windings — a construction which cannot achieve a clean and efficient current flow through the magnetic field surrounding the windings, resulting in poor suppression for RFI and EMI.
12-04-2006, 10:37 AM
#37
Originally Posted by NOBR8KSS
I have been using Magnecor wires on my cars and having seen the quality and the percieved increase in driveability and throttle response, and the actual increase in fuel mileage, I will continue to use them.
As for the resistance test, I took this straight from Magnecor's website:
I've had excellent results on all of my cars with Magnecor's wires...1999 Z-28, 1991 Nissan Stanza, 2004 Acura MDX.
As for the resistance test, I took this straight from Magnecor's website:
I've had excellent results on all of my cars with Magnecor's wires...1999 Z-28, 1991 Nissan Stanza, 2004 Acura MDX.
What is there to gain from changing sparkplug wires other then getting a cooler color?
12-04-2006, 11:22 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Justin00SS
Yeah. How much better could they possibly be?
Its like putting an 80mm tb on a 78mm intake. It will only flow as much as the opening on the intake right? So how much spark is enough and how much is more then enough and isn't used?
What about the coil packs themselves? They will only produce so much spark anyway.
I have seen though that the MSD coil packs and wires are good for around 5-10hp/tq though.
Its like putting an 80mm tb on a 78mm intake. It will only flow as much as the opening on the intake right? So how much spark is enough and how much is more then enough and isn't used?
What about the coil packs themselves? They will only produce so much spark anyway.
I have seen though that the MSD coil packs and wires are good for around 5-10hp/tq though.
All -
OK, one more try to explain electron theory, then I'm done.
Let me first make an anology; headlights and light output (a bit of a sore sport with us f-car owners). With high resistance wires (i.e. - wires with a small cross-sectional area) between the battery and headlamps, the power that could be used to produce light is instead used to heat the wire. The result is dim headlights lights and brittle wires.
This is the same thing that happens with high resistance spark plug wires; the power that could be used to jump the air gap is instead used to travel thru the wire. The energy used to go from the begining of the wire to the end of the wire is "wasted", components are heated, and the effective spark is reduced from what is could be.
So, to address your intake / TB question, it's not quite like that. ANY SP wire resistance is bad, you cannot buy / install / use a SP wire whose resistance is too low and therefore "oversized" for your application.
"Wider is better" and "Lower (resistance) is always better"
Got it? Good!
MLE
12-04-2006, 11:29 AM
#39
Originally Posted by great421
All -
OK, one more try to explain electron theory, then I'm done.
Let me first make an anology; headlights and light output (a bit of a sore sport with us f-car owners). With high resistance wires (i.e. - wires with a small cross-sectional area) between the battery and headlamps, the power that could be used to produce light is instead used to heat the wire. The result is dim headlights lights and brittle wires.
This is the same thing that happens with high resistance spark plug wires; the power that could be used to jump the air gap is instead used to travel thru the wire. The energy used to go from the begining of the wire to the end of the wire is "wasted", components are heated, and the effective spark is reduced from what is could be.
So, to address your intake / TB question, it's not quite like that. ANY SP wire resistance is bad, you cannot buy / install / use a SP wire whose resistance is too low and therefore "oversized" for your application.
"Wider is better" and "Lower (resistance) is always better"
Got it? Good!
MLE
OK, one more try to explain electron theory, then I'm done.
Let me first make an anology; headlights and light output (a bit of a sore sport with us f-car owners). With high resistance wires (i.e. - wires with a small cross-sectional area) between the battery and headlamps, the power that could be used to produce light is instead used to heat the wire. The result is dim headlights lights and brittle wires.
This is the same thing that happens with high resistance spark plug wires; the power that could be used to jump the air gap is instead used to travel thru the wire. The energy used to go from the begining of the wire to the end of the wire is "wasted", components are heated, and the effective spark is reduced from what is could be.
So, to address your intake / TB question, it's not quite like that. ANY SP wire resistance is bad, you cannot buy / install / use a SP wire whose resistance is too low and therefore "oversized" for your application.
"Wider is better" and "Lower (resistance) is always better"
Got it? Good!
MLE
Just paint the stockers whichever color you want.
12-04-2006, 12:49 PM
#40
Originally Posted by great421
Justin00SS As for: “How is the engine more efficient?”
It has a greater / larger / fatter spark to better (i.e. - more efficiently) burn the fuel & air mixture in the cylinders. MLE
It has a greater / larger / fatter spark to better (i.e. - more efficiently) burn the fuel & air mixture in the cylinders. MLE