MNR-0

If you must run an elbow, you can't go past wilson. They have years of research into airflow and their tech department are more than happy to answer any questions. Then if you were really serious and wanted the stock bonnet left as is then there is always Hogan and Bresel custom jobbies.

If you can, I would run a 4bbl.

Edelbrock are soon releasing a Super Victor for the LS1 - it looks interesting on paper at the Holley website.

LS1 Cobra

I'm running on on mine with a 1000CFM 4 barrel T/B. It's certainly very responsive and I love the look of it but I think the combination of parts has more to do with how well it'll work on any motor.

I loaned my setup to a frien a couple of weeks back and he tried it on his H&C 346 and it actually made less power than the LS6 setup it had before. I think there's a lot more to chosing the right cam and other parts to suit this manifold along with careful tuning to get the most out if it.

I've got a MS4 going into mine and I'm after a motor that makes more top end as the car is very light. Hopefully I'll have some dyno numbers soon.



Cheers

Michael

SLowETz

iTrader: (12)

Well.... respectfully.... no **** buddy. I also stated that my junk doesn't live at 7500+.

Alll I was really trying to do was hold my peak numbers a little longer(vs. the FAST)using the current cam. The FAST made great power under the curve (540/500), but did lack staying power up high. Keep in mind that while this isn't a DD, it does see runs on the street which is why the current stick was spec'd as it was.

I knew the piece was meant for higher rpms's, and knew going into it that I'd lose a few down low, but wasn't really concerned as my thinking was that the converter would keep it in the meat. What I didn't realize/know was that the elbow shown wasn't gonna work as well as a top mount carb style setup.

My bad.

I also didn't realize that holes 1-2-7-8 were going to be running fat as *****, and 3-4-5-6 would be lean as **** as a result of more air to the shorter inside runners vs. the outside runners. I mean, yeah.... common sense.... I knew it but didn't realize how much of an effect it would have.

Without an aftermarket engine management syetem to tweak each hole individually to account for unequal runner lengths, I'm not sure how one would be able to tune for that.... unless the flow charactoristics of the top mount carb style piece resolves that issue?

With that said, it would seem the correct grind would be one in which the 3-4-5-6 lobes would need to be dramatically different in ramp rates, I/E VE's as well as lift/duration #'s to get these holes to act right?

I may hang onto this for awhile and play around w/different grinds/accufabcarb style TB this winter just for something to do. Until then, the FAST will go back on-

SLowETz

iTrader: (12)

LS1Cobra-

That is beautiful!

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

Ill post a few dyno graphs in the morning with direct comparisons of the Vic Jr Vs the FAST.....

Let me add a question for some of you guys here while we are discussing the Vic Vs the FAST.... Anyone know how hot the plastic is when the engine is at operating temps Vs the temp of the Vic Jr at the same operating temp? I do

Also, anyone know how long it takes to cool a Vic Jr down Vs the cool down time required for a plastic FAST when going for ultimate ET??

BTW, I have YET to see ANY sheetmetal intake TRULY outperform a properly ported FAST on any application revving up to 7000rpm....


Graph below represents a 440 LS7 with cathedral port heads and a ported FAST Vs a 449 (NINE MORE CUBES) with Square port heads and a custom sheet metal intake (MUCH larger camshaft as well)



500rpm Peak with the Vi Jr Vs 20 to 30 under the curve and almost 40 ftlbs @ 4400rpm with the FAST over the Vic... I think I know which one Ill take

Seems like the FAST is holding its own @ 6500rpm with over 700 CRANK HORSEPOWER with big cubes.... and it runs cooler

To each their own, but unless the engine LIVES @ 7k plus, its a waste of time and money....

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

Originally Posted by VH5150
well no **** buddy... look at what you just wrote... cammed for as much low-end rwhp/tq as possible... try a diff cam and the vic will **** all over that fast


VH5150 vbmenu_register("postmenu_7599829", true);
Staging Lane
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 65
Trader Rating: (0)


some of you peeps are nuts... have the peeps who tried the vic picked the right cam?? prob. not... putting a cam that makes peak power from 6000-6800 rpm's on a vic aint gonna work... you need a cam that makes peak power from 7000-8000 rpm's at least.. proven fact.. try a different cam and you will be surprised...




So by these two statements I am to assume we can build a STREET motor that spins to 8k rpm and has more power under the curve AND gets "**** on" by the Vic???

If thats the case I need to go back to engine dyanamics 101

VH5150

Im not gonna argue with mr. ron vengeance... mr. fast intake porter... bla bla bla..... do what you please... and so will I.. have a nice day...

seems to me ron all you care about is dyno #'s... I guess thats all fine and dandy in youre in the tuner/builder business... Im not so I could care less.. My dyno is the track ....We all know what youre dyno is....A COMPUTER.....

PowerShift408

iTrader: (44)

And you have what results to show us as opposed to his, Tony Mamo's, or anyone else's for that matter?

No need to argue with you... I'll stand with AFR & Vengeance Racing over VH5150 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday.

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

Definately no need to argue. I can tell by your responses and level of intellect that it wouldnt go far.....

As far as your personal attacks on me, I am paid to run Vengeance Racing. That includes sharing the results of our packages with others.. Unfortunately, Im not paid to drag race our customers cars... I do have a 9 second 347 NA combo in my garage and we have NUMEROUS cars out there running 10s with heads/cam etc etc.... Its ashamed the Pinks car didnt make a pass on national TV... Guess who they called for their heads/cam....

Dont take my dyno results posts as thats all we are interested in... Our customers post their time slips, not us.... On that note, anytime you would like to go power adder for power adder with my car just lemme know... Its set up to take a lil ole 300 shot

Lastly, Im not biased by the fact we port FAST intakes, Im biased by the fact the FAST intake WORKS and we have tried BOTH

This graph represents our ported FAST Vs a ported Vic Jr... Same car/same dyno/same everything except intake/day. This graph shows hot for hot pulls on both of the intakes... The graph under this one represents a 10 minute cool down on the FAST intake Vs a 30 minute cool down on the Vic Jr (Time required to cool the Vic down the the same temp as the FAST)

BADD SS

iTrader: (4)

Agreed, a 65 post newb from july, vs two heavily board active experts. This is a tough decision. Also, this has been debated for a long time, and the ported fast has repeatedly shown impressive results over the victor on a street motor, or even mild/medium strip motors.

dadem0n

How does the VicJr compare to the other carb intakes on the market?

Galen

iTrader: (3)

Ron, I have always been in the camp that believed that the aluminum intake would not have major heat soak issues when compared to a plastic intake. Thanks for proving me wrong. Now, do you happen to have a recipe for the crow(I was thinking over rice and gravy) I have to eat?

My FAST 90/90 is in the mail right now.

Galen

ONEBADWS6

iTrader: (22)

Wow! I'll post up even though I'll most likely get my head ripped off. I had a ported Fast and switched to a ported vic jr. I also flowed the head intake combo of each. My heads flow 334cfm at .650 and 260@ .400. With the Fast the best I could get was 278 cfm, and yes all this is with the TB and elbo attached for the vic. The vic still needs about 3-4 hours of porting and flowed 291cfm and I lost no cfm at the lower lift points. Behind bars race cars made my elbo. When I dynoed, the fast did do much better down low, but from 5k on the vic won. I spin my car to 7500 and soon to be 8k plus. I also was told the elbo is killing me and am in the process of switching to a 4150 style tb. Hope this helps someone.

VH5150

Thank you, nuff said.. 5000+rpm the vic won... point proven... at the track my vette never drops below 5000rpm's on the shift extension so will be perfect for me.... help'd me thank you!!!

VH5150

actually I have been around for quite some time now, just never signed up...

I might not be an expert, BUT the people who help me with my car ARE. They have way more experience then ron or anyone else who has posted on this thread....INCLUDING TONY MAMO...

see you at the track soon ron.... Ill be sure to call you... Im in florida...

PowerShift408

iTrader: (44)

Who do you know that has way more experience with LS1s than Tony?

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

Im glad he had positive results!!! Good to see you are willing to take advice off of one person on the internet with a positive experience.... That being the case, we can save a trip to the track and if we can run the internet 1/4 mile...

SLowETz

iTrader: (12)

LMAO! .... and with this vast wealth of knowledge you surround yourself with, you're in this thread asking for coments on an elbow you don't have on an application that isn't built yet?

FWIW Mr. the track is my dyno.... nobody said the jr. wouldn't work in high spinning apps. What was said was, that for a STREET motor living UNDER 7k that the FAST was (generally speaking) a better choice.

If you think the jr is gonna gain a bunch from 5500 TO 7000(where MY **** lives)you've bumped your head. The power under the curve loss won't be made up in 1500rpms(on MY application).
If you wanna spin your **** to 8500 have at it. My junk will make better power down low(where I need it)and will still be kickin' *** when you're pickin' up pieces of piston off the ground.

But hey, you've got ALL the experts in your corner, so far be it from Tony, Ron, me or ANYONE else to question/disagree with your world-

When you and the "experts" finish up your build that you don't even have all the parts for, please post back. Until then, you've PROVED NUTHIN'.

Ron@Vengeance

iTrader: (51)

LMFAO!!!! Im glad to see you know so much about me and my experience with a Gen III/IV powerplant.... Not only that, but you know all about Tony Mamos experience as well....


FWIW, I have never said I know it all... I learn everyday.. Anyone who refuses to learn will be an idiot forever....

As for today... I have learned that I might not know it all, but I sure as hell know more than you Looking forward to DRAGGING YOUR *** down the 1/4 ....

This kinda reminds of "I dont have a car, but I have a friends uncles cousins nephew that does and he will whip your *** " .... LMFAO!!!!

Goodnight everyone

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

I still dont know what a better choice for me in my application.. even after all this banter. I am going to be spinning my motor to around 7k-7200rpm and the car will be quite light with some big traction problems to begin with. I am looking for as much top end with the car as possible so I still dont know whether a fast 90/90 or a vic jr with a 4 bbl tb would be better.