black2002ws6

iTrader: (35)

we are working on a entire emission setup.

RedWS6 00

I thought I'd give that ago. Here is what i found.

321 and 347 are known as stabilized grades of stainless. These are alloyed with either titanium (321) or columbium (347), both of which have a much stronger affinity for carbon than does chromium at elevated temperatures. This eliminates carbide precipitation leaving the chromium where it belongs for corrosion protection...remember our discussion of intergranular corrosion? Both 321 and 347 are top choices for exhaust headers, especially turbocharger systems and rotary engines. Since 321 is much more available than 347, that leaves 321 as the first choice, with no sacrifice in needed qualities.

304 is the most inexpensive and available stainless in the 300 series. It is suitable for normally-aspirated header applications, and has been successfully used by many racing teams. It does not have the high temperature fatigue resistance that 321 does, but is considerably less costly and much more available. Most 304 tubing these days has the dual designation of 304/304L.

Source of info from:- http://66.223.106.208/TechArticles/S...s_article.html

Looks like 321 is the better stuff, and if 304 is inexpensive, why do header companies charge more when they are made from 304 than with 321. Looks like the headers from black2002ws6 are a good deal, I should have looked more before I got mine.

Order 66

Go with the proven set up like QTP. The other company does not even have a website or takes credit cards(just paypal). Not someone i would do business with. And with the sale MPH is having on QTP headers its a no brainer. Also QTP has answer all my emails, questions and phone calls on all there products i have inquired about. Also there is no after sale support if there is problem. Also if you are buying a stainless header that will last forever, dont you want the company that makes the header be in business longer than a year?

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

I'm not going to take a position on which you should get, but let me say I had an issue with my XS and Carl took good care of me right away. You can safely ignore the previous post - customer service is excellent. True to my experience. Just for the record, not buying this theory whatsoever.

Redlinez

iTrader: (5)

I will also add that many headers aren't going to fit perfectly and will require some "notching" of the k-member. My QTP's hit on the passenger side. They look great, not sure if they're worth the difference or not. I will say that Y pipe choices are very limited with QTPs. I had a pacesetter rigged up, but fitment sucks. Then I've also heard people getting rid of their QTP y pipes and going custom. I wish there was a y that worked great with QTP's that I could buy and install myself.

Zzzzz

iTrader: (2)

Am I missing something? Doesn't QTP make a nice y-pipe?

radz282003

iTrader: (1)

QTPs Y-pipe design idea is great (to my understanding) however it's execution leaves something to be desired (in my case.) It is a bear to get into the car if you have some ig SFCs (I have SLPs). Regardless, I was able to overcome the conflict with the SFCs (drivers side problem only) and am very happy with them.

If I had the money to buy both of them right now I would still go QTP. Yes, they are only T304 but in the several months I had them on my car I had no corrosion issues. If you drive in an area near the ocean or that gets a lot of salt on the roads then maybe the T321 is more desirable.

I like the QTP for the design of the header though. To me, it makes sense to design a header that makes the fewest turns and has the fewest bends as possible. Additionally, the length of the primaries is a plus. Finally, they have HVMCs which are thought to be about the best collector-type possible. Hey; if it's good enough for NASCAR it's good enough for me.

You'll get fitment issues with any of these LTs in any of these cars. The tollerances they are built with don't help. I think my fitment problems were a result some a collapsing tranny mount and the fact I had loosened and lifted the engine a couple times before putting the last set of QTPs in the car.

Maybe I'm trying to justify QTPs because I've had two sets, but I strongly believe in the design of these LTs. In the end, it's obviously up to you, and a power difference is not likely to be too much different. You probably won't tell it at the track and dyno' numbers are for tuning only so it's mostly up to your wallet.

Good luck.

mbrownin

iTrader: (1)

Don't take this as pestering, if you don't have an answer, that's cool. Just wondering if there is any kind of timeframe estimate for the availability of the emissions version, in particular the catted y-pipe.

Redlinez

iTrader: (5)

Well, I will end up with Spohn regular SFC's, so I guess I will end up with a QTP ORY. Just wish it was stainless like the headers.

cws T/A

iTrader: (3)

I have had the xs headers since the only place they were availible was ebay . I paid $330.00 shipped to my doorstepp for them . Had them over a year now and they look the same . My car made 345rwhp / 347rwtq sae 1.00 correction in 97f ,through a Moser 9'' 4.11's . lid and dual exhaust are the only other engine mods besides the xs headers . I trapped 111mph @ 3,650lbs in 80+ / 75% humidity with a slipping in 4th gear Ram Hd clutch .

Now the downside , My car has never been in any collisions , was garaged kept and has UMI welded boxed subframe connectors . I have had to keep something jammed inbetween the body of the car where the collecter and the start of the driver's side exhuast tube is . No problems with the kmember , just the drivers side collector is obviously aimed up towards the body . Fit this way since I installed them .

I am not aware of how the ''newer'' xs headers fit but owell I didnt pay much so I didnt mind until now . I am looking for every ounce of lost power I can find . A header with an HVMC is going to have an advantage as I have proof with dyno results I found from a member on this site . I have an x pipe , the non hvmc header , beefier built t-56 trans than stock, steel flywheel and heavy clutch plus a 1350 yoke 3.5'' driveshaft . But my torque #'s are close inline with the hp #'s with a soft imo, lower rpm torque curve .

I have seen a few dyno curves with Pacesetters non hvmc header and my dyno graph with the non hvmc . Both made close hp / tq numbers when dealing with bolt on power . Other set ups with similar modifications but with the hvmc header made 10more peak rwtq than I did , the torque curve was also stronger in the lower rpms .

I am going to switch soon to a hvmc header and have the car redynoed to see the gain in lowend torque . If I could I would just put a hvmc on these headers but I am not good with tig welding .

Not knocking the xs header as mine make plenty of power and have held up great in the rain . Just I am bettering my combo with the addition of a lighter weight better grabbing Textralia exo -skel clutch setup and then a header with hvmc's . I bought to soon and recieved what I payed for in a sense . Live & learn .

Here is a dyno graph of before & after . Before .. Red , Pacesetter 1 3/4'' non hvmc , after blue .. QTP 1 3/4'' with an hvmc . Notice the infamous 350rwtq @ 3,000rpm after the hvmc header was installed . My dyno graph has the same soft lowend the before graph has as others I have seen graphs of not using a hvmc .

Hilton

iTrader: (36)

Heh, should I buy an F-Body or a Bugatti? (Price is a secondary concern, but still a concern)

I'm in the middle of installing a bunch of things on my car right now. I finished the motor mounts this weekend and have the XS headers held in by two bolts on each side. Both the driver's side and the passenger side header slid right in without any problems. I didn't even cut the tab off the block. The driver's side is touching the floorboard. Not a big deal though. I'll pull it out and cut off a couple inches of it. I'm making a true dual system anyway, so I'll just add a slight angle down on the drivers side and make the pipe a little longer. Welds look good, price is good, fit is good, install was easy, metal is shiny!

I like them. I'd buy them again, but the whole "the body is twisting" argument is crap-o-la. I've had subframe connectors since the dawn of time.

ChocoTaco369

321 stainless may be better than 304 stainless on paper, but it's not that simple in real life applications. What purity are you getting? Are you getting cheap steel from China? Or are you getting your stainless from an American company, or a European company? Remember the Titanic and their steel? It was steel, yes, but it was cheap and brittle. I'd rather take 304 stainless from a high quality American or European company than Chinese 321 stainless full of God knows how many defects and quality control issues like seemingly everything out of China.

I'm just saying dig a little deeper. If the 321 stainless is from the same company as the 304 stainless, I'd rather have the 321, but if we're comparing Chinese steel to American steel, give me American steel any day, regardless of the grade.

In short, you'll likely have A LOT better luck with American or European made 304 stainless than you will from Chinese 321 stainless if that's what it boils down to. EVERYTHING manufactured in China is complete junk riddled with quality control issues. It seems like nearly every recalled or dangerous item put on the market came out of China. Of course, if both materials are made in America or Europe, the 321 stainless will probably be better.

Black02SLPSS

iTrader: (5)

Didnt the Titanic have ALOT of carbon content in the steel in turn making it brittle?

ChocoTaco369

Interesting dyno: Pacesetter longtubes vs. QTP longtubes.



That's with no other changes: just swapping from Pacesetter longtubes to QTP longtubes w/HVMC's. ~9 rwhp gains peak, and even more impressive, at 3100 rpm's we have an 18rwhp/30rwtq gain. Unreal.

Here's the thread:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/700678-results-qtp-hvmc-vs-pacesetters.html

Redlinez

iTrader: (5)

Choco, what did yours put down with your QTP's? Mine made 331/341. Mods in sig, I know my rigged Pacesetter Y hurts some, but not 10-15 rwhp. I don't think the HVMC make a big difference unless you run a certain cam and/or heads. Like I've said before, buy them for the quality because HP numbers could be identical to cheaper longtubes. There way more expensive ones out there that won't make any more power, but I don't see the need for a header of "higher" quality than QTP.

ChocoTaco369

I haven't got it dynoed yet. I'll be taking it for a dynotune eventually, but it may take me a while as I have to go back up to school next week.

CamaroZstyle28

iTrader: (1)

Just wanted to say that I have the XS headers. Install was easy .. no grinding or removing the steering, both sides slid right in. Still tuning it but have noticed a very nice gain. These headers are great and they are at a great price. Save the money and put it into a Cam


Good Luck