What power does your car make with your QTPs and what kind of dyno?

 

How about the fact that I am going to lay my car out? I have mids currently and I know I have enough clearance to lay the car on the ground and not have an issue. What about long tubes? That is my argument for mid length headers.

 

Amen!

From the lqatest swap I did going from mids to pacesetters, the gain on the car was 2hp and 3rwtq even after extensive tuning. Show me ONE instance of where they made double. That's right because it's made up.



There will always be MAC haters and then there will be those who see them as what they really are. A fine product that makes GOOD power. Are they the absolute best? NO but neither are the highly coveted QTP's or any other header out there. EVERY combo is different, you just need to find what works for your car and budget. Making a blaket statement saying they are garbage is laughable IMHO. Especially coming from someone who has ZERO knowledge of the product except what was read on the almighty internets.

 

the mac savior to the rescue, thanks for the backup

 

I'll let you know as soon as I'm out of class to get my car tuned.

 

Swap from Macs to Pacesetters made 2 rwhp/3 rwtq? Proof? Graph? Same dyno? Same day? Is that PEAK hp/tq? Because the advantage of longtubes over mids is UNDER THE CURVE power, not peak power. That's what the scavenging effect does. Macs suck for under-the-curve power.

I'd be curious to see your dyno graph, and I'd be curious to see what the gains were at 3000 rpms, not 6000 rpms.


https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/700678-results-qtp-hvmc-vs-pacesetters.html

Here we have a swap from Pacesetters to QTP's. We have 9 rwhp/7 wrtq peak gain and an 18 rwhp/31 rwqt gain at 3100 rpms. That's on a H/C car, but it shows the ridiculous amount of power lying on the table when you buy a cheaper longtube like Pacesetter. A high quality longtube like QTP, which has high velocity merge collectors, longer primaries and equal length primaries nets you gobs of horsepower under the curve and significant gains at peak.

And that's just a longtube to longtube swap!

Now, imagine what that will give you with mids? Say we take your unsupported, possibly fabricated 2 rwhp/3 rwtq number and take it as absolute evidence. A simple swap from Macs to QTP's with no other changes will net you 11 rwhp/10 rwqt PEAK.

Now, we'll take into consideration the 18 rwhp/31 rwtq number from a Pacesetter to QTP swap, no other changes. Now, since longtubes scavenge under the curve substantially better than mids, you're going to see MONSTEROUS gains of horsepower and torque under the curve from a Mac to QTP swap. If Pacesetter to QTP nets you 31 rwtq, going from Macs to QTP's can easily net you 40+rwtq at ~3000 rpms! Get your car tuned for it and the potential goes even HIGHER! We could be talking about a ~50 rwtq difference on an aggressive H/C setup!

That is INSANE the kind of power left on the table from Mac's! Again, there are a lot of "Mac haters" because they are pointless to buy.

Just think, if you didn't have Mac's, you would have been able to break that 400 rwhp mark and then some

 

thats a hell of a speculation youve got there sparky

no one is saying that mac trump lt's, but for the price, for a MILD setup, its just not worth it

 

It's not a speculation, it's a fact. The only thing you can argue with is my ~50 rwtq estimate, and that simply can't be off by more than ~10 rwtq in the same conditions on the same dyno.

 

Not convinced from one persons dyno but glad you like your headers Choco. I like mine even better. XS long tubes $299. My custom Y was free. Guessing your QTP header/catted Y combo was like $1,300. I'd gladly leave 9hp on the table if it means saving me $1,000.

 

It ran me around $1,100. Well worth it for the fit, finish, fitment and maximum horsepower. Now I just need my ported throttle body and tune and my car's done being modded for a long time.

 

I'll throw in my $02. (This is for the original poster...not the internet know-it-alls)
I bought MAC headers way back when they were one of the few headers on the market. They are ceramic coated and I payed $960 for them.
Pros:
They fit well
They make good power. I picked up 22 rwhp going from stock manifolds and y-pipe.
Cons:
mild steel...the ceramic coating is coming off and they are rusting...that started after about 6 months
cost (new)

If I were to do it again, I would spend my money on stainless headers like QTPs or Kooks. I couldn't justify spending almost a grand on mid-lengths.
However, if you can get a set for $200...already ceramic coated...then go for it. That is definitely worth it...it's hard to get that kind of hp gain for that price.
MACs aren't crappy...they are a good header. This debate has been going on for years...everyone still has there own opinion about it.

 

I don't disagree with any of these statements. I bought mine when the options were FLP's and MACs. MACs were a great buy for the $. I still tell people to buy LT's but calling macs a "waste" and not worth $5 or whatever is a joke.

As for your fabricated numbers and assumptions, do the swap in one day with back to back dyno runs and I'll believe it. Otherwise i'll believe what i've seen with MY OWN eyes and not internet rumor and speculation.

Also, AS I SAID before. I continually tell people to buy LT's not but if they have $100 and they can get a set of MACs for that, go for it if that is their ONLY option.

Oh, and way to step up and crack about only being at 399RWHP. I'll take that and be proud of it. How many cars out there with WAY more mods than mine are well below that number? I'm happy where the car is at.

 

Macs arent the best but they make power. For the price of used macs and used cam youll make more power per dollar over the QTp's. If you do the install yourself.

If I did it over, Id get long tubes cuz theyve gotten cheaper. The reason I bought the macs was theyre much lighter than cast iron manifolds, they fit, and were cheap.

And taco, get off your high horse. What does your car run and how much did you spend? I spent less than a grand in mods to pick 8mph and 8 tenths

 

That's the funny part. I believe he still runs 14s and is tellin people faster what's what.

 

I picked up a set of macs for cheap I think it was $125 used ceramic coated. Did some work, ported the primarys because straight from mac the welds on the inside are a mess, also cut off the ball flange. Reused the borla 2.5in y-pipe that was already on the car. The key to macs is they need work, I would never recomend anyone just slap them on ther car they way they come from mac. The number one most restrictive part is that pos ball flange, the header goes from 3in to 2 1/4 I believe. Then there's the primaries you can easly clean up the welds on each one and gain 1/4in diamiter on each primary.

As for ground clearance macs do have better clearance, Period. I know dozens of f-body guys around here with long tubes and everyone of them hang lower and most have scraped there setups and non of them run slps. I have not scraped once and everything tucks nicely. Ground clearance was my main reason behind considering macs but was not sold untill I found a good deal on here locally. Also in my opinion there is nothing that ruinins a clean car than to see headers and exhuast pipes hanging under it, looks like **** to me. Around hear every entrance to anywhere is at a incline or a dip, every parking lot has 50 enourmous speed bumps.

I have no before dyno nor do I have a dyno comparing longtubes to my macs, but that is one smoth all power curve for some crappy macs. Picked up 17hp and 19ft lbs from just the tune. Also my car has no head or cam, just bolt ons, full cated exhaust, ported tb, underdrive, lid.


As for the original topic how much would you pay I'd have to say $175-$200.

 

Those are some solid numbers for those mods.

 

yeah, I wouldnt pay more than $200 for them. Another nice thing about macs is they dont require o2 expensions.

 

Spoken like a man who actually knows about macs!

I have said get LT's unless you can get macs for a steal of a price. Otherwise, with the price of LT's lately, unless you have a specific need for macs don't bother. They DO make good power though not the best but then again, there will ALWAYS be something better.

Telling someone they aren't worth $5 and to save for better is a joke. Might as well tell them to save until they can make their car run 9s or don't bother modding at all.