View Poll Results: What do you think?
It's got a stupid high price tag...
173
81.60%
I'd happily pull out my plastic and go into debt faster than a hooker at a frat party!
39
18.40%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll
F.A.S.T. Intake.... Overpriced?
02-27-2008, 08:44 PM
#62
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See the HP drop up on the top end? Some of it was due to having no tuning and AF being all jacked up. I tuned for injectors since I switched to 42's, tuned idle, and gave a guesstimate on the VE table and bumped it up 10% overall. It was super rich up top. And im sure it had a little bit of knock retard too since when I did tune it on the street later on it had a little knock retard @ WOT.
Dyno was dead on with other dynos as well, so thats out of the question.
Last edited by brad8266; 02-27-2008 at 08:51 PM.
02-27-2008, 08:50 PM
#63
Actually, I worked for a company in the past in the F-body field and there were many things that only that company produced that were marked up 1000% and I will absolutely concur that they were ripping off the customers. Hence why I would never buy a product where I know this is happening. I know how R&D works and I know how much it costs... I also know after having a product out for a while and it being mass produced like this particular part has been, they paid their R&D costs a LONG time ago, especially at this price...
As far as needing more and paying for it... heh... I'm in the middle of getting a new engine. Trust me it's not cheap. But the F.A.S.T. intake is not one of the parts I plan on putting on there just soley because of the price... I am not debating how good the intake is... hell I know it kicks ***... but it still doesn't change the fact that it is highly overpriced for what it is...
I don't believe that people are understanding completely what i'm stating...
Yes SPEED costs money... I know that
But certain parts shouldn't cost as much as they do, especially when monopolizing a certain market. Hence the F.A.S.T. intake being the best out there with no contenders in the same class... I mean, it's not even close to the same pricing with it's competitors, frankly, it's completely ridiculous...
read the above reply
Your half right... I believe people are buying them because nobody else has a product in the same class as far as performance goes. But you must remember, they know this, which is why they set the price where they do and take as much as they can while they can, which to me from a customer stand point is just dirty, and I think they would gain a lot more income by lowering the price so that more people can actually afford the cost/hp gain ratio.
I'm not one of the neck breakers
and i refer you to my reply to them above, your welcome
Sheetmetal intake is completely different... they aren't mass produced, require welding done usually by a skilled welder, and actually have worth while gains, whereas the fast typically has a 10-15hp gain over it's competitors if your lucky that i've seen...
YES! and as said above, that's why they charge so much, because they KNOW THIS!
I guess what i'm getting at, is frankly, it's not right.... and to me, that's a punch in the ***** from a customer stand point and makes myself not want to buy from a company like that...
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personally... i say the pole above says how the general public feels and that in itself says something... I know it probably won't make a dent in anything, I just wanted to express how i personally felt and see if I was the only one...
or.... you could just say I like to "stir the pot"
As far as needing more and paying for it... heh... I'm in the middle of getting a new engine. Trust me it's not cheap. But the F.A.S.T. intake is not one of the parts I plan on putting on there just soley because of the price... I am not debating how good the intake is... hell I know it kicks ***... but it still doesn't change the fact that it is highly overpriced for what it is...
I don't believe that people are understanding completely what i'm stating...
Yes SPEED costs money... I know that
But certain parts shouldn't cost as much as they do, especially when monopolizing a certain market. Hence the F.A.S.T. intake being the best out there with no contenders in the same class... I mean, it's not even close to the same pricing with it's competitors, frankly, it's completely ridiculous...
read the above reply
Your half right... I believe people are buying them because nobody else has a product in the same class as far as performance goes. But you must remember, they know this, which is why they set the price where they do and take as much as they can while they can, which to me from a customer stand point is just dirty, and I think they would gain a lot more income by lowering the price so that more people can actually afford the cost/hp gain ratio.
I'm not one of the neck breakers
and i refer you to my reply to them above, your welcome
Sheetmetal intake is completely different... they aren't mass produced, require welding done usually by a skilled welder, and actually have worth while gains, whereas the fast typically has a 10-15hp gain over it's competitors if your lucky that i've seen...
YES! and as said above, that's why they charge so much, because they KNOW THIS!
I guess what i'm getting at, is frankly, it's not right.... and to me, that's a punch in the ***** from a customer stand point and makes myself not want to buy from a company like that...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
personally... i say the pole above says how the general public feels and that in itself says something... I know it probably won't make a dent in anything, I just wanted to express how i personally felt and see if I was the only one...
or.... you could just say I like to "stir the pot"
Most of what you state doesnt make sense.
Your basically complaining/bitching about the price because you have some sort of exposure from a prior company you have worked for. NOT saying designed the product, or had ANY say in the price or how its marketing, and based on your exp that its a Monopoly because they charge, in your opinion a higher price then you like.
A MONOPOLY is basically this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly Instead of cutting and pasting, I figure you can read it.
Customers have a choice, they do NOT need it, if a competitor beleives that they can make a better product, or at least the same but cheaper and offer it at a lower price then they are welcome to it. Wilson isnt blocking other companies from entering the market, just the opposite. There are other choices but it hasnt detered the pricing structure.
ALSO I will add in general the COST of doing biz in the US has nearly tripled and its DIRECTLY connected to the price of fuel and also the supply and demand of meterials. If ANYTHING they should ban speculative buyers for the futures market, freaking gold was around 200-300$ a oz back in 97, now its nearing 900$.... do the math.
Lastly as a red blooded american, you have the right to decide NOT to buy. Wait for an alternative or stick with whats avalible.
02-27-2008, 08:57 PM
#64
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Lets see what common part is on the 500+ setups.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/648228-video-idle-plus-streetability-wot-my-511rwhp-fti.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=500
(I will add as i find them)
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer-results-comparisons/648228-video-idle-plus-streetability-wot-my-511rwhp-fti.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=500
(I will add as i find them)
02-27-2008, 08:59 PM
#65
See the HP drop up on the top end? Some of it was due to having no tuning and AF being all jacked up. I tuned for injectors since I switched to 42's, tuned idle, and gave a guesstimate on the VE table and bumped it up 10% overall. It was super rich up top. And im sure it had a little bit of knock retard too since when I did tune it on the street later on it had a little knock retard @ WOT.
Dyno was dead on with other dynos as well, so thats out of the question.
02-27-2008, 09:03 PM
#66
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See the HP drop up on the top end? Some of it was due to having no tuning and AF being all jacked up. I tuned for injectors since I switched to 42's, tuned idle, and gave a guesstimate on the VE table and bumped it up 10% overall. It was super rich up top. And im sure it had a little bit of knock retard too since when I did tune it on the street later on it had a little knock retard @ WOT.
Dyno was dead on with other dynos as well, so thats out of the question.
02-27-2008, 09:06 PM
#67
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Good numbers. But, another 50rwhp is not gonna happen. People get 50rwhp from getting heads alone. Look at the difference in H/C v. Cam only. You think that with a little tuning, and a porting of your IM, you will gain 50 rwhp. Not gonna happen. I will submit that 440 is a tad on the low side, but 500 rwhp is not realistic. We will just have to disagree to disagree on this one. And BTW, if you do hit the mark then PM me with the graph. Ill buy you a beer. Cheers!
Did you read my first post, I said it would take a new cam as well, read damn it!!!!
02-27-2008, 09:07 PM
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Lets see what common part is on the 500+ setups.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=648228
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=500
(I will add as i find them)
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=648228
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=500
(I will add as i find them)
02-27-2008, 09:11 PM
#71
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Oh so now you mention the rear to try to defend your point. Yeah obviously a 9" or 12 bolt is gonna rob a few HP, especially with a different gear ratio as well.
Point is dont come on here and call BS on **** thats been happening for a while now. 500 is obtainable in a head/cam car and almost all of them run a FAST intake. 450HP in a head cam LS1 is cake today compared to a few years ago. People are at 450 on baby cams provided the overall combo is well matched. One of the common denominators in the high power head/cam cars is the FAST intake.
Call vengenance and ask them how many head/cam 500HP rides they have produced, there are a quite a few from their shop alone.
02-27-2008, 09:12 PM
#72
Most of what you state doesnt make sense.
Your basically complaining/bitching about the price because you have some sort of exposure from a prior company you have worked for. NOT saying designed the product, or had ANY say in the price or how its marketing, and based on your exp that its a Monopoly because they charge, in your opinion a higher price then you like.
A MONOPOLY is basically this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly Instead of cutting and pasting, I figure you can read it.
Customers have a choice, they do NOT need it, if a competitor beleives that they can make a better product, or at least the same but cheaper and offer it at a lower price then they are welcome to it. Wilson isnt blocking other companies from entering the market, just the opposite. There are other choices but it hasnt detered the pricing structure.
ALSO I will add in general the COST of doing biz in the US has nearly tripled and its DIRECTLY connected to the price of fuel and also the supply and demand of meterials. If ANYTHING they should ban speculative buyers for the futures market, freaking gold was around 200-300$ a oz back in 97, now its nearing 900$.... do the math.
Lastly as a red blooded american, you have the right to decide NOT to buy. Wait for an alternative or stick with whats avalible.
Your basically complaining/bitching about the price because you have some sort of exposure from a prior company you have worked for. NOT saying designed the product, or had ANY say in the price or how its marketing, and based on your exp that its a Monopoly because they charge, in your opinion a higher price then you like.
A MONOPOLY is basically this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly Instead of cutting and pasting, I figure you can read it.
Customers have a choice, they do NOT need it, if a competitor beleives that they can make a better product, or at least the same but cheaper and offer it at a lower price then they are welcome to it. Wilson isnt blocking other companies from entering the market, just the opposite. There are other choices but it hasnt detered the pricing structure.
ALSO I will add in general the COST of doing biz in the US has nearly tripled and its DIRECTLY connected to the price of fuel and also the supply and demand of meterials. If ANYTHING they should ban speculative buyers for the futures market, freaking gold was around 200-300$ a oz back in 97, now its nearing 900$.... do the math.
Lastly as a red blooded american, you have the right to decide NOT to buy. Wait for an alternative or stick with whats avalible.
man... you didn't have to play the WIKI card... i know what a monopoly is.... I think you took it literally when I meant they have an intake to which apparently no other intake can touch it performance wise...as far as not making sense etc... i read what i posted 3-4 times before i hit the "submit" button and i think it makes complete sense...
as far as bitching? i'm simply stating my opinion... to be honest I completely agree with the second half of your post and have no argument... it's the first half that has no bearing. I won't give out any names, but let's say i used to work for a company that many of us on here know and they were also forum sponsers. Trust me, I know how the chain works... and believe me, their costs did NOT triple... they've been making this intake for a while, which means the equipment to make them was purchased a good while back. It's already been designed. It's already been tested. The only incurring costs that "might" have increased is the cost of what ever plastic composite they use to make the intake out of... and I highly doubt they are going into debt over the plastic they use...
02-27-2008, 09:12 PM
#73
Dude, it's just not the norm. If you are looking for power numbers you might hit with a G5X3, don't look for the highest recorded number and expect to hit that.
Yea, I'll say it again. A lot went into Patrick G's setup. Custom cam, lightweight valvetrain, lightweight drivetrain, SD tune. Jus' check the price he paid for the valves alone. Possible? Yes. Normal? No.
Yea, I'll say it again. A lot went into Patrick G's setup. Custom cam, lightweight valvetrain, lightweight drivetrain, SD tune. Jus' check the price he paid for the valves alone. Possible? Yes. Normal? No.
02-27-2008, 09:22 PM
#76
Dude, it's just not the norm. If you are looking for power numbers you might hit with a G5X3, don't look for the highest recorded number and expect to hit that.
Yea, I'll say it again. A lot went into Patrick G's setup. Custom cam, lightweight valvetrain, lightweight drivetrain, SD tune. Jus' check the price he paid for the valves alone. Possible? Yes. Normal? No.
Yea, I'll say it again. A lot went into Patrick G's setup. Custom cam, lightweight valvetrain, lightweight drivetrain, SD tune. Jus' check the price he paid for the valves alone. Possible? Yes. Normal? No.
02-27-2008, 09:23 PM
#77
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Dude, it's just not the norm. If you are looking for power numbers you might hit with a G5X3, don't look for the highest recorded number and expect to hit that.
Yea, I'll say it again. A lot went into Patrick G's setup. Custom cam, lightweight valvetrain, lightweight drivetrain, SD tune. Jus' check the price he paid for the valves alone. Possible? Yes. Normal? No.
Yea, I'll say it again. A lot went into Patrick G's setup. Custom cam, lightweight valvetrain, lightweight drivetrain, SD tune. Jus' check the price he paid for the valves alone. Possible? Yes. Normal? No.
SD tuning doesnt gain any power either compared to a MAF tune. Its just another way to skin the cat.
Anyway I am done with this discussion, my point is that all the high HP NA 346's have a common denominator: a FAST 90 intake. If you dont want to make the power than dont buy it.
02-27-2008, 09:29 PM
#78
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Oh so now you mention the rear to try to defend your point. Yeah obviously a 9" or 12 bolt is gonna rob a few HP, especially with a different gear ratio as well.
Point is dont come on here and call BS on **** thats been happening for a while now. 500 is obtainable in a head/cam car and almost all of them run a FAST intake. 450HP in a head cam LS1 is cake today compared to a few years ago. People are at 450 on baby cams provided the overall combo is well matched.
Point is dont come on here and call BS on **** thats been happening for a while now. 500 is obtainable in a head/cam car and almost all of them run a FAST intake. 450HP in a head cam LS1 is cake today compared to a few years ago. People are at 450 on baby cams provided the overall combo is well matched.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=408
Average rwhp for 408 = 507 rwhp. Thats on a engine with 62 more CIs. So why would these people go to the expense of building a small block when they were simply H/C away from essentially the same numbers. Yea, they make more torque but on average they make more HP as well. Just some food for thought.
That being said, lets drop it and agree to disagree. Personally, i hope that you hit the 500rwhp mark. Hell I hope you can squeeze 550 out of it. But I don't think that it is likely nor do i think it is a realistic goal for the average joe. Ill give you the last word.
EDIT: I do agree that the Fast 90/90 is worth the $$$. If i didn't i wouldn't have bought one.
02-27-2008, 09:31 PM
#79
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Im not gonna try to hit 500HP NA on the 346 anyway, thats what I have spray for. Why shoot for 500 when I can go way over 600? 
500 is not obtainable for everyone, it does indeed take a bit of research and you cant do the internet nutswing on the same **** that everyone else buys and makes 420HP with. Learn your **** and figure out your own combo and you might be suprised.
500 is not obtainable for everyone, it does indeed take a bit of research and you cant do the internet nutswing on the same **** that everyone else buys and makes 420HP with. Learn your **** and figure out your own combo and you might be suprised.
02-27-2008, 10:06 PM
#80
it's apparent that a lot of you guys really like the FAST IM... and that's great! I'm all for it... hell I like it too. I'm not saying it's a POS. It's a great piece of hardware...
but... in all honesty, for all you guys defending the price tag on it... are you really gonna sit there and say that you don't think it's a little on the pricey side? I'm starting to wonder, just because everyone, or most everyone defending it, are all owners of it. And I think because of this they just don't wanna feel like they made a stupid decision in paying that kinda dough for it...
seriously... you guys don't think it was a little on the high side?
but... in all honesty, for all you guys defending the price tag on it... are you really gonna sit there and say that you don't think it's a little on the pricey side? I'm starting to wonder, just because everyone, or most everyone defending it, are all owners of it. And I think because of this they just don't wanna feel like they made a stupid decision in paying that kinda dough for it...
seriously... you guys don't think it was a little on the high side?