1 7/8 AR Headers on a lightly modded ls1
Look guys, the bigger tubes are for bigger HP. If all your going to do is headers then 1 7/8 is not for you. BUT if your going to do what almost 80% of the guys do on this board and keep modding until you reached 20000hp then you realize that building a car takes time. You either do it over time or you have the coin to drop on massive HP right from the get go. TO be putting someone down or telling them they made a mistake because they bought something you wouldnt buy is stupid.
Do you know what his ultimate goal is? Have a plan to meet your goals.
Do you know what his ultimate goal is? Have a plan to meet your goals.
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
Nobody pay this assclown any mind.When a giant douchebag like you makes it as an LS1tech sponsor, it's comforting to add someone from my list of places I'll never buy from. It makes the decision easier at purchasing time. Sorry to see your poor publicity hurts the company, though. Your mouth's a pretty big liability.
I've been agreeing with Tony Mamo since page one of the original thread. Glad to see I was right.
LMAO
This is your level of expertise
SLP| Corsa |QTP|Magnaflow|Richmond| FastToys|MSD|NGK|Inland Empire|
from a v6 Camaro.
Mamo and I have worked together in the past. Guess what, we ran a stepped to 1 7/8 header on my 347 with his massaged 205's and ported fast 90. Stepped headers have a place.
This is your level of expertise
SLP| Corsa |QTP|Magnaflow|Richmond| FastToys|MSD|NGK|Inland Empire|
from a v6 Camaro.
Mamo and I have worked together in the past. Guess what, we ran a stepped to 1 7/8 header on my 347 with his massaged 205's and ported fast 90. Stepped headers have a place.
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
LMAO
This is your level of expertise
SLP| Corsa |QTP|Magnaflow|Richmond| FastToys|MSD|NGK|Inland Empire|
from a v6 Camaro.
Mamo and I have worked together in the past. Guess what, we ran a stepped to 1 7/8 header on my 347 with his massaged 205's and ported fast 90. Stepped headers have a place.
This is your level of expertise
SLP| Corsa |QTP|Magnaflow|Richmond| FastToys|MSD|NGK|Inland Empire|
from a v6 Camaro.
Mamo and I have worked together in the past. Guess what, we ran a stepped to 1 7/8 header on my 347 with his massaged 205's and ported fast 90. Stepped headers have a place.
I forgot, you have to have wasted $25,000 of mods into a car before you're allowed to comment on them.
There are two things I have behind me that you have yet to show in this thread: deductive reasoning and common sense. I'm extremely savvy when it comes to purchasing, and I'm quite adept at research. Someone like you has to try and fail 10 times before you figure out the right way to do things, spending tons of money in the process. I, on the other hand, tend to do it right the first time because I know what I'm getting into beforehand.
Spending 10 minutes on the phone with Tony Mamo 3 different times does not mean you have "worked together," either. I have great respect for Tony Mamo because he has expertise, common sense and intelligence. He knows what he's talking about. I have as much confidence in your judgment as I have in China's honesty.
LMAO!! Your an idiot.
You dont have my money and you have no clue what I've been up to. I've had 3 different things built and run many different combos. Learned a few things along the way, sold everything and bought new. Now I'm to the point where I'm a sponsor and going to be offering a special package of my own.
What have you done? Spoke to couple vendors ? done a bunch of reading on here got educated from peoples opinions?
There are talkers and there are do'ers. I've done more than you've talked about.
retort all you want, your opinion on here means nothing to anyone who knows what they're doing. I'm out of this thread, Taco has you covered LMFAO!
Also dont drag Tony down with you. When you buy something from Tony Mamo he spends one hell of a lot more time of the phone with you. He is meticulous and makes sure no detail is left un-covered. 10 minute phone calls do not happen with Tony. His far to thorough.
Last edited by 99blancoSS; Apr 12, 2008 at 11:51 AM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,219
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From: Los Angeles, California (818)
this guy is an idiot, he talks like he knows Tony, lol, the point i was trying to make when i started the thread is why loose money in reselling when i wont have ill effects running the larger headers, i dont have a rich daddy to give me money when i need it, i have to work for it, i cant just take a 400 dollar hit when i resell, then respend the money and still have to fork 400 more out of my money to cover the lose for new headers, u know people actually have to work hard in life for money, u know down in the real world, so dont come on here like u own the place and lecture people like your the best engine builder in the world, and stop talking about Tony like u know him, i dont know him either but i dont try to say i do, 
Right, and doctors who have never cured cancer don't have the expertise to treat patients with cancer, right?
I forgot, you have to have wasted $25,000 of mods into a car before you're allowed to comment on them.
There are two things I have behind me that you have yet to show in this thread: deductive reasoning and common sense. I'm extremely savvy when it comes to purchasing, and I'm quite adept at research. Someone like you has to try and fail 10 times before you figure out the right way to do things, spending tons of money in the process. I, on the other hand, tend to do it right the first time because I know what I'm getting into beforehand.
Spending 10 minutes on the phone with Tony Mamo 3 different times does not mean you have "worked together," either. I have great respect for Tony Mamo because he has expertise, common sense and intelligence. He knows what he's talking about. I have as much confidence in your judgment as I have in China's honesty.
I forgot, you have to have wasted $25,000 of mods into a car before you're allowed to comment on them.
There are two things I have behind me that you have yet to show in this thread: deductive reasoning and common sense. I'm extremely savvy when it comes to purchasing, and I'm quite adept at research. Someone like you has to try and fail 10 times before you figure out the right way to do things, spending tons of money in the process. I, on the other hand, tend to do it right the first time because I know what I'm getting into beforehand.
Spending 10 minutes on the phone with Tony Mamo 3 different times does not mean you have "worked together," either. I have great respect for Tony Mamo because he has expertise, common sense and intelligence. He knows what he's talking about. I have as much confidence in your judgment as I have in China's honesty.
I am not going to get into a big pissing match here, its not worth it especially with whom I would be arguing. 344rwhp/355rwtq is good for a bolt on car, its not the highest but it seems average for what I have seen. I don't doubt there would be some low-mid range TQ gain with the 1 3/4" primaries, there would not be any HP gain over the ones chosen though. SOTP is the only place that the torque gain would be noticed since it would be at part throttle and not shown on a dyno(see earlier part of the thread to see this is what even Mamo said)....that being said the member that did this swap noticed absolutely no loss. I stated earlier that on a similar car with identical mods, except the only difference being the header diameter....there was no difference in SOTP feel either. In a race however the car with the larger headers was faster.... Personally I mod my car to make it faster, not race dyno numbers or low RPM torque feeling.
I'm research savvy enough to see that any thread where AR headers are mentioned....Choco bashes. Bottom line ARH>QTP. The issue on header tube diameter is so controversial that there will never be complete agreement....but i'm gonna stick with my 1 7/8".
I'm research savvy enough to see that any thread where AR headers are mentioned....Choco bashes. Bottom line ARH>QTP. The issue on header tube diameter is so controversial that there will never be complete agreement....but i'm gonna stick with my 1 7/8".
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iTrader: (70)
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Posts: 1,219
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From: Los Angeles, California (818)
well said without choosing sides, if u go back to the post, i say will there be any ill effects, the answwer is no
I am not going to get into a big pissing match here, its not worth it especially with whom I would be arguing. 344rwhp/355rwtq is good for a bolt on car, its not the highest but it seems average for what I have seen. I don't doubt there would be some low-mid range TQ gain with the 1 3/4" primaries, there would not be any HP gain over the ones chosen though. SOTP is the only place that the torque gain would be noticed since it would be at part throttle and not shown on a dyno(see earlier part of the thread to see this is what even Mamo said)....that being said the member that did this swap noticed absolutely no loss. I stated earlier that on a similar car with identical mods, except the only difference being the header diameter....there was no difference in SOTP feel either. In a race however the car with the larger headers was faster.... Personally I mod my car to make it faster, not race dyno numbers or low RPM torque feeling.
I'm research savvy enough to see that any thread where AR headers are mentioned....Choco bashes. Bottom line ARH>QTP. The issue on header tube diameter is so controversial that there will never be complete agreement....but i'm gonna stick with my 1 7/8".
I'm research savvy enough to see that any thread where AR headers are mentioned....Choco bashes. Bottom line ARH>QTP. The issue on header tube diameter is so controversial that there will never be complete agreement....but i'm gonna stick with my 1 7/8".
That's right, mack. I was trying to help you make your decision by showing you the results of mine.
Some people are do-ers, others are talkers. I personally would like to invite Choco-talka to have a sexual departure.
You can see the results, no ill effects at all - HP, TQ, or the curve. When you factor in the heavier wheels, that points to an actual gain at the flywheel. I'd have to remove and redyno with the 17x9s for us to see what that delta is. When choco was challenged regarding this issue specifcally, to put his money where his mouth is, he didn't...and won't.
Yes, I should have swapped the wheels, but it was a long day.
My test didn't address the 1 3/4 at all but did address "big vs. small". Some would say "appropriate vs. overkill". My opinion? I would go 1 7/8 if you plan on bigger cubes, otherwise it might be optimal with the 1 3/4. It did show that with tuning, you will not LOSE anything with the big tubes, likely will gain a small amount, at least over the very decent MACs, plus you bought once and bought right.
It was worth it to me, since I plan to keep the car. At the end of the day, I hope it was helpful.
Some people are do-ers, others are talkers. I personally would like to invite Choco-talka to have a sexual departure.
You can see the results, no ill effects at all - HP, TQ, or the curve. When you factor in the heavier wheels, that points to an actual gain at the flywheel. I'd have to remove and redyno with the 17x9s for us to see what that delta is. When choco was challenged regarding this issue specifcally, to put his money where his mouth is, he didn't...and won't.
Yes, I should have swapped the wheels, but it was a long day.
My test didn't address the 1 3/4 at all but did address "big vs. small". Some would say "appropriate vs. overkill". My opinion? I would go 1 7/8 if you plan on bigger cubes, otherwise it might be optimal with the 1 3/4. It did show that with tuning, you will not LOSE anything with the big tubes, likely will gain a small amount, at least over the very decent MACs, plus you bought once and bought right.
It was worth it to me, since I plan to keep the car. At the end of the day, I hope it was helpful.
I am not going to get into a big pissing match here, its not worth it especially with whom I would be arguing. 344rwhp/355rwtq is good for a bolt on car, its not the highest but it seems average for what I have seen. I don't doubt there would be some low-mid range TQ gain with the 1 3/4" primaries, there would not be any HP gain over the ones chosen though. SOTP is the only place that the torque gain would be noticed since it would be at part throttle and not shown on a dyno(see earlier part of the thread to see this is what even Mamo said)....that being said the member that did this swap noticed absolutely no loss. I stated earlier that on a similar car with identical mods, except the only difference being the header diameter....there was no difference in SOTP feel either. In a race however the car with the larger headers was faster.... Personally I mod my car to make it faster, not race dyno numbers or low RPM torque feeling.
I'm research savvy enough to see that any thread where AR headers are mentioned....Choco bashes. Bottom line ARH>QTP. The issue on header tube diameter is so controversial that there will never be complete agreement....but i'm gonna stick with my 1 7/8".
I'm research savvy enough to see that any thread where AR headers are mentioned....Choco bashes. Bottom line ARH>QTP. The issue on header tube diameter is so controversial that there will never be complete agreement....but i'm gonna stick with my 1 7/8".
Mack got the answer he was looking for and can make his personal decision with more info - and that was the point.
I'm contemplating another dyno to see what the wheels cost me but if I am going to spend the dyno/tuning time, I may as well put a Fast combo on there, shoot I need new injectors too. I mean "While I'm in there..."
Last edited by jmilz28; Apr 14, 2008 at 11:40 AM.
What are you guys opinion on the Edelbrock Victor series for the LS1, they are 1-3/4 to 1-7/8 stepped. I am strongly considering buying them for my light bolt on 00 SS. They look like an awesome header for 439$
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ers_race.shtml
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ers_race.shtml
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Go big or settle for less. YES, I brought it back from the dead since TSP has tested this "theory".
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=1+7/8
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=1+7/8
Chocotaco, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
instead of buying them now... why dont you just buy them when you have your 408?
oh and,
Thats from a movie. -2 to creativity.
oh and,
Chocotaco, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Thats from a movie. -2 to creativity.
We all understand 1 3/4 headers are optimal for your set up. Yes but how different is the performance?? I think we are splitting hairs here. How many guys are out there with cams that make huge max dyno numbers and have no low-midrange power. Sadly they get flamed less on this site than someone who runs a 1 7/8 headers on a 346 and looses 5 ftlbs of torque at 2K rpm. There is way more important things to a combo in my opinion than if you run 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 headers. If you dont plan on going bigger buy 1 3/4 if you want room and have plans to grow buy 1 7/8 just my .02
Just to bring this back...
Wouldn't a 1-7/8" header work better with ported heads and a good sized cam - say 240+ duration if you were running a 4000+ stall with a shift extension in the 5700~5800 range with a 6900 RPM shift point?
I mean, WOT, you'll never be anywhere close to where a 1-3/4" header will outpower a 1-7/8" header. Of course, part throttle tip-in will be affected, but in a high stall car, the torque converter controls the feel more than headers.
Also, according to David Vizard, you should go with primary tubes depending on the exahust flow of your heads. Most aftermarket castings flow so high, 1-7/8" headers are considering "optimal" by Vizard's testing.
Wouldn't a 1-7/8" header work better with ported heads and a good sized cam - say 240+ duration if you were running a 4000+ stall with a shift extension in the 5700~5800 range with a 6900 RPM shift point?
I mean, WOT, you'll never be anywhere close to where a 1-3/4" header will outpower a 1-7/8" header. Of course, part throttle tip-in will be affected, but in a high stall car, the torque converter controls the feel more than headers.
Also, according to David Vizard, you should go with primary tubes depending on the exahust flow of your heads. Most aftermarket castings flow so high, 1-7/8" headers are considering "optimal" by Vizard's testing.
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Just to bring this back...
Wouldn't a 1-7/8" header work better with ported heads and a good sized cam - say 240+ duration if you were running a 4000+ stall with a shift extension in the 5700~5800 range with a 6900 RPM shift point?
I mean, WOT, you'll never be anywhere close to where a 1-3/4" header will outpower a 1-7/8" header. Of course, part throttle tip-in will be affected, but in a high stall car, the torque converter controls the feel more than headers.
Also, according to David Vizard, you should go with primary tubes depending on the exahust flow of your heads. Most aftermarket castings flow so high, 1-7/8" headers are considering "optimal" by Vizard's testing.
Wouldn't a 1-7/8" header work better with ported heads and a good sized cam - say 240+ duration if you were running a 4000+ stall with a shift extension in the 5700~5800 range with a 6900 RPM shift point?
I mean, WOT, you'll never be anywhere close to where a 1-3/4" header will outpower a 1-7/8" header. Of course, part throttle tip-in will be affected, but in a high stall car, the torque converter controls the feel more than headers.
Also, according to David Vizard, you should go with primary tubes depending on the exahust flow of your heads. Most aftermarket castings flow so high, 1-7/8" headers are considering "optimal" by Vizard's testing.
You should be fine with the 1-7/8 header with the above combo with room to grow before you would need to go any bigger
