Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

The goal of this test was very simple. It was to answer the question that we always get asked:

If I'm going to mod further down the road can I buy the larger header the first time & have room to grow?

To answer this question for our customers we back to back tested the similar priced headers so we could give the customer accurate dyno results from both headers.

We all know the 1 7/8" headers will make more power as the engines power output goes up, my goal was to show the customer exactly what they will gain in a worst case comparison. Stock motor vs stock motor is a worst case comparison...

s346k

iTrader: (4)

i feel it is a good comparison. excellent information. the hair splitters on this website kill me. put those same headers on a different engine, you will get different results...maybe less difference, maybe more, who knows. but good comparison nonetheless.

also, perhaps we should be doing part throttle pulls below 3k on the dyno to settle down the "daily drivers". i laugh so hard at guys like choco. at 30% throttle you won't notice any more or less tq given both of those headers. oh well, some people are born with common sense, others spend their entire lives searching for it.

good testing, keep up the good work. however, i feel that the fast 90 intake inflates the power increase from the 1 7/8 headers.

also, 400+hp and 420+tq from an intake/header/tune only motor. gen 1 sbc ftl hahaha.

JScamaro

iTrader: (6)

You guys need to remember who is paying for the engine dyno testing. Of course TSP is going to test their most popular headers they sell, the Pacesetter 1 3/4 and now the new TSP 1 7/8 headers.

I think this was a good comparison for a TSP customer trying to decide which header to go with if he has a relatively stock setup with future plans for major mods.

Thanks Jason for sharing with us.

12secSS

iTrader: (30)

I would have liked to see the same brand headers compared to each other (1-3/4 vs. 1-7/8), as Choco mentioned.

BUT the results TSP posted are exactly what I would expect, regardless of brands. The main point is that the 1-7/8 do not cost you low end torque unlike the old wives tales goes. It would be nice to have the same brand headers tested.

J-Rod

Jason, I will post what I've seen and tested. This testing was done around the C5, so please bear with me as it is not an F-Body.

In 346 and 383 inch motors we've tested we've seen our best results with the LGM 1 3/4 Pro longtubes headers. I ascribe this to two things. One is proper tube length and diameter. The other is to good collector design.

I would agree with you that a good 1 7/8" header should make power over a poorly designed 1 3/4" header any day of the week. I happen to prefer a long primary tube for a street/strip 346 CID engine, especially in a combination that wants to place the emphasis on the street side of that equation (better low speed and midrange TQ and power, throttle response, fuel economy, etc.)

On a 383 the larger (but much shorter) tube is worth about 10 more peak HP and 12 or so past peak....it will also widen the peak numbers a bit (a good thing), but expect to lose about 20 ft/lbs at 4K or so. You can tune all you want to try to fix this hole, but you can't fix it. Thats simply where the long smaller primary just overpowers the shorter larger primary....

As I said, what we have typically seen is that a larger header wont hurt top end power figures, but it will hurt the area under the curve and lower your "average" HP and TQ figures, and as stated slightly penalize you in the fuel economy department as well.

On a 346 this is 20 to as much as 30 lb ft of Tq. in my experience.

Sales2@Texas-speed

iTrader: (5)

The engine dyno will NOT let us test at that low of RPM's. We isolated as many variables as possible by using the FAST intake for all the testing. More variables simply clouds results and we avoided that the best we could!

Exactly, we wanted to be able to tell OUR customers, when they call asking which header between Pacesetter and our 1 7/8", which header they should buy. We don't need to make up numbers to sell the parts, we have real engine dyno data to back-up the claims. It's a good thing IMO, and we're glad to share!

Jason 98 TA

iTrader: (4)

Make no mistake average power from 3000-6000 was up.

J-Rod I get what your saying about results you've seen testing vette headers, but we're definately discussing what we're seeing with a f-body header. The designs are completely different. I would like to test other collector designs in the search for power, but at $800 a set for most expensive headers it's just not worth the extra cash. We did test a stepped kooks header that made a horse or two more power than the TSP header, but for double the cost most guys just don't care.

We'll be back on the dyno shortly, if you can get ahold of a few different headers to test I'll be happy to set aside some extra time to test a few different options. I'm always interested in testing in the search for more power!!

primer84z

iTrader: (7)

It was the other way around.

s346k

iTrader: (4)

i said this as a joke, i am aware of the dyno's capabilities.

J-Rod

Nope, I understand and that is why I made it a point to point that fact out to start with. The price point for F-Body vs Vette is totally different, and the market segment is much more value oriented in the F-Body world. Price seems to be the biggest driver in the F-Body world.

drews94z-28

iTrader: (4)

Interesting find Jason, keep up the hard work and info comming our way!

12secSS

iTrader: (30)

Fixed.

Kingc8r

iTrader: (21)

Pretty interesting data & opinions

Pekka_Perkeles

Well, that's strange. Both setups give 209 hp at exactly 3000 rpm, but torque differs at same rpm. Now that's just plain impossible, as hp ratings are always calculated from torque numbers in any dyno.

So, if there's difference in torque at 3000 rpm, then there must be difference in hp as well.

My guess is that torque numbers have bit different rpm ratings. Just a small difference, that's all it takes. But then it makes me wonder, how about other numbers, is there a small difference as well... :-)

primer84z

iTrader: (7)

^^ I thought the same thing but figured they just rounded to make it look better...

ReFtheMC

iTrader: (6)

This is good

blown03mustang

Jason,

you guys made a great comparison with the header test, and the results actually suprised me a bit, but what about the guys looking to go with a stepped header? anyway u could get a set of 1 3/4 stepped to 1 7/8 and compare to the 1 7/8? just curious cuz i was debating on which one to go with

RJB01camaross

Interesting results!!! Could u post the graph's from the kooks and TSP 1 7/8 headers?

ChocoTaco369

I'm not driving half way across the country to dyno my car. I don't really care much. I'm just telling you that the margin of error in this comparison due to using different brands - one of them being one of the oldest and poorest designs on the market - is greater than the amount of power you gained way up top.

Eye dyno?



You sure?

1 3/4" Pacesetters vs. 1 3/4" QTP's in a mild H/C car.

blown03mustang

i understand ur argument, and respect it as well so dont take this as a diss, but i think ur missing the point of the OPs reasons for the test. i think it had more to do with "THEIR" more popular selling headers and power differences between the two for customers who are in the market but are torn between the two. Yes we know that there are better 1 3/4 headers out there, but c'mon give these guys a break, pacesetters are the more common LT for the average LS1 owner that isnt lookin to spend a fortune for a few more hp.